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Gran Turismo 5; A.K.A. the "WHY" thread
Topic Started: Dec 1 2010, 02:45 AM (1,975 Views)
Juz
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b3ast1e
Dec 27 2010, 11:29 AM
"Where do I go for an accurate and reliable assessement of GT5?", I mused.... Why the Final Level crew of course! Knew Dave would cut through the bs and get to the exquisite floppily-doppolies.
Like a digital Father Christmas, B3ast1e posts but once a year!
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Diddly
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Fuck me, who's that? ^ :jawdrop: And Merry fucking Christmas if you ever do come back and read this. ;)

I know we probably took longer than most to review GT5 I think it shows. Eurogamer's 9/10 review is a joke. I've looked everywhere and can't find a fairer or more accurate review of GT5 than ours, despite it bordering on a rant. Jon (Smurfzursky) deserves a medal for doing the job he did pulling our list of GT5 pros & CONS, whys and wherefores together into some sort of readable format. I "edited" his original draft and it got 250 words longer. I think the game is like that, the more you talk about it the more faults appear.


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Diddly said he got bored playing Forza, but god, repeating the same races time and again
Have you finished F3 m8? you'll be doin just as much repeating as you do in GT5, in even more boring cars with shite handling, no believable physics, no bumps and with just as many visits to bloody Tsukuba. Because of Forza's ridiculously bzzzZZzzzzoring handling the longer races were impossible for me to do without falling asleep, so I paid a driver to do them, as I suspect most people who "finished" the game did. What worries me is that the last two big name motorsport games' developers seem to think we either want or need to watch AI doing as much if not more driving than us. Or did I miss that meeting too? ^o)


But the facts are undeniable; much of GT5 is completely mental. Tests etc. that are quite probably impossible with a joypad and are certainly impassable with the stupid default settings that the game gives every bleedin' time. Have you seen GT5's B-Spec mode? It has to be the most broken part of the game by far. Want endurance races? Thought Forza'3's were too easy, too short? GT5 has TWO 24hr races with no time skip or save facility, both in A-Spec and B-spec. They must be fucking mad, and given Sony, Nintendo and M$'s supposed commitment to "gamer's health" I'm amazed they were allowed to include them in the game... But going by the rest of GT5 the QA went out the window long before they got to look into anything as insignificant as races longer than the lifespan of some PS3s or a "real driving simulator" with no setup save facility.

For the record I still think NFS Shift is a better looking, handling, feeling and sounding road racing game than either Forza 3 or GT5, it's just a shame it was bunged on the shelves with some of the the daftest bugs ever seen in a racing game. I wonder if they ever fixed it? :huh:
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Retrovertigo
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Nah haven't finished FM3 yet. Up until recently I'd just been playing it season by season and assumed by the time I reached level 50 I was nearing the end. I then looked at the event list for the first time and my heart sank when I saw how many events were left to go. Not helped by the fact I despise a lot of the tracks in the game.

One area I always thought PD have excelled is fantasy track design -although the Cape whatsit tracks that people are gushing about online, seem a bit meh to me.

I have done one b-spec race so far, and it's inclusion baffles me. All that dev time, and for a significant portion of it someone was working on adding races you just sit and watch - bizarre!

What I do like about FM3 though, is that I can drive well straightaway. I can be competitive and not need to spend too much time upgrading cars. In GT I sometimes end up with a bit of a shitty car (because of the wank way the secondhand dealership works) and so need to tune it, but don't want to make it too powerful. And that is where it falls flat compared to FM3 - because you then have to navigate back and forth through the tiresome menus, trying races and then going back and tweaking the car.

I used to sit and sometimes race in FM3 for an hour, and make a lot of progress. An hour in GT5 can see me not even complete a race to the point where I win.

It undoubtedly has the better handling model though, but I'm getting frustrated and it's being lost on me because other things frustrate me so much.

Oh and after all the hype the game had. I'm super disappointed I haven't seen anything in-game that looks like this: http://media.playstationpro2.com/images/gran_turismo5-2.jpg

Looks ridiculous in a still image because of the cut and paste characters. But I remember the video that accompanied it showing insane amounts of detail going on.
Edited by Retrovertigo, Dec 30 2010, 01:08 AM.
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Killer Miller
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Just wanted to say that has to be the best review of Grind Chorismo 5 I've read. It should be printed in giant japanese letters and posted on billboards outside the PD offices and Kaz's house.



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Retrovertigo
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Welcome to the forums :)

I really need to get back into GT5 and try and "finish it". Despite the car handling being fantastic, I always think "I'll have a blast on GT5 today" and then immediately think of the tedious loading screens between every bloody button click, and it puts me off even trying.

It could be fixed by having short cut buttons spread more liberally throughout the game, but I doubt stuff like that will ever be fixed as Yamauchi lives in some kind of bubble where game development/ U.I improvement simply haven't happened in the last 6 years.
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Killer Miller
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Feb 15 2011, 08:29 AM
Welcome to the forums :)

I really need to get back into GT5 and try and "finish it". Despite the car handling being fantastic, I always think "I'll have a blast on GT5 today" and then immediately think of the tedious loading screens between every bloody button click, and it puts me off even trying.

It could be fixed by having short cut buttons spread more liberally throughout the game, but I doubt stuff like that will ever be fixed as Yamauchi lives in some kind of bubble where game development/ U.I improvement simply haven't happened in the last 6 years.
Holy Cow, MrBungle, there's a name I recognize from the Outlaw days. I was just going to hide behind the Killer Miller name and bust Diddly's balls. Bonus time. :rofl:

And I totally feel you on thinking you'll turn it on and have fun. I didn't even get GT5 till after Christmas, so I've had it a month and a half, and I'm already at the point that I got to with FM2 after about 2 1/2 years of gameplay where I'd turn it on and end up just staring at the screen too bored to do anything. And that was after what was at least hundreds of thousands of miles put on that game, hammering every LB I could find whether it was hotlap, career, TT or exhibition.

That's what kills me the most about GT5 is the lack of leaderboards. How do you produce a game that is even supposed to be halfway sim without the inclusion of leaderboards. Kaz is supposed to be a real racer, he should know how important lap times are to a racing game. That's the thing I'm praying for is full leaderboard support to be coming in this next update on the 18th. If I can get world, friends and local leaderboards and a penalty system in place that prevents the kind of rubbish cheating that is killing the GT Academy right now then I'll be completely in love with the game again.

But even without any fixes or updates, to me the sad reality is that GT5 is the best "sim" racer on consoles at the moment. I know some enjoy FM3, but to me, that game has all the problems of GT5, but nowhere near the physics. It does have LB's, but they are pretty much ruined beyond use by the PI system that rewards AWD swapping everything. Including cars it would be physically impossible to AWD swap like the S class Viper. And god I'm scared for FM4. After the mass dumbing down of Forza between the great FM2 and the garbage that is FM3, I can only see even more casual appealing crap coming from T10 in the future. Kinect is going to remove what little "motorsport" is left from the series.

Edited by Killer Miller, Feb 15 2011, 04:07 PM.
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Juz
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Yikes! Forza 3 is "Garbage?"
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Killer Miller
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Compared to the brilliance that was FM2, it's absolute garbage. Between the laundry list of missing features, the dumbed down noob physics, the raped R classes, the AWD swap domination of the game and the horrid multiplayer hopper system, FM3 couldn't be any worse.

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Juz
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Feb 17 2011, 03:12 PM
Compared to the brilliance that was FM2, it's absolute garbage. Between the laundry list of missing features, the dumbed down noob physics, the raped R classes, the AWD swap domination of the game and the horrid multiplayer hopper system, FM3 couldn't be any worse.

How about a broken progression system and hideously obtrusive load times for every single menu selection? That'd be worse, right?

I actually liked GT5 at first but it just kinda ground me down after a bit. FM3 on the other hand, is nice and easy to dip in and out of even after a protracted period of playing quite hard.

I'm not the biggest fan of anything "sim" any more- as I get older I find "dumbed down" stuff more palateable.

My job is awesomely challenging and awesomely interesting nowadays (supplying Alien prequel and new Batman) so further challenges that are too OTT in my free time are not appealing.

/old fart
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Killer Miller
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Feb 17 2011, 06:14 PM



I see your point. The load times are pitiful, but that's something I can live with. The XP and credit system, coupled with the unicorn hunting aspect of finding some of the cars is maddening. Video games should never have content that requires "grinding" for cash or XP to fully unlock content. But really, Forza has the same problem with it's 20 million credit cars. Forza does give you more events, and a storefront to make credits, but it's still the same grind to me.

And there's something to be said for the type of "dumbed down" game that the Forza franchise has become. I enjoy a good arcade racer just as much as a good sim racer. To me, PGR2 is still the king of all online racing games. That being said, a dumbed down arcade racer is not what was promised in the pre-launch hype by that idiot Greenawalt. We were told that FM3 was going to have all the options FM2 did and was going to be, and I quote, "the Definitive racing sim of this generation". That's my biggest beef with the game. As a game on it's own, it's not bad. But when compared to the previous version and the bold promises about what it was supposed to be...it's just garbage.
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Juz
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Fair enough points, well made dude.

I loved PGR2 (and 3 and 4) too, and other than the (AAAAARGH!) cone challenges and their relative single player brevity, they were the perfect blend for me.

You know....I did wonder whether my prob with GT5 (and FM3 in all fairness) was a lack of neat little mini achievements knocking around that kinda keep up the rewards and add a dash of fun? Extra paint colours and horn tones didn't really give me a boner.
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Killer Miller
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PGR2 was brilliant. I actually bought the first Xbox for Forza 1. Didn't like it because I was expecting it to be the "GT Killer" they hyped, instead I got what I saw as another GT Clone with the real killer being the incredibly long wait times for people's paints to load in a lobby. So I gave up on FM1 before I even really got into it.

Then I started playing Outlaw, met Diddly, he told me about PGR2 and I loved it. The physics were a perfect mix of being realistic enough to feel like it was actually a car being driven but forgiving enough that anyone could pick it up and play. Netcode was brilliant because you could race close and actually bump a little without cars going into crazy spin ragdoll mode. Single player was great. Getting all platinums on PGR2 was stupid hard. There were a couple cone challenges, one I specifically remember was in a Maranello was crazy.

Edited by Killer Miller, Feb 17 2011, 10:32 PM.
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Diddly
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I really must read my own forum more often, sometimes it's really interesting. :$

Killer Miller
 
that has to be the best review of Grind Chorismo 5 I've read.
Thank you, I think it hits most spots hard where they deserve to be hit, and praises where praise is due. Kudos to Jon for turning what was basically a list of our gripes and a personal rant by me into something intelligible, I will pass your comments on.

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Holy Cow, MrBungle, there's a name I recognize from the Outlaw days. I was just going to hide behind the Killer Miller name and bust Diddly's balls. Bonus time.
Different Bungle m8, you're thinking of mistabungle (a Seattle resident and musician I believe), who is still on at least one of my friends lists and keeps inviting me to play Black Ops just to annoy me. I thought you were someone else until I started reading the rest of your posts, but I soon realised who you were. Hi Georgia, old friend. :wave: F3 still hurts, huh? Stop picking it and it'll get better.


Retro
 
I really need to get back into GT5 and try and "finish it".
I don't believe it's possible for normal mortals m8, but Jon (who wrote out GT5 review) is giving it a good go so I'll let you know how he gets on.


And anyone else playing Test Drive Unlimited 2? Just like the original I'm on a daily love/hate relationship with the game. The online seems broken, but great when it works, the handling is simple but demanding (no traction or stability assists, and lots of powerful RWD cars), the cars sound great but look a bit pant-ish after F3, GT5 (and even NFS Hot Pursuit), the pop up/pop-down is a disgrace, the frame rate hovers smoothly between 15 and 25FPS, and the whole "TDU Life" thing, clubs, casinos, gambling... the voice acting... JESUS what were they thinking?? I know this is supposed to be harmless aspirational stuff, but the in-game characters, like the "people" in The Hills, 90210 et cetera are all so fucking self-absorbed and obnoxious that it could be sponsored by al Qaeda in order to drum up more anti-American feeling. I often get American friends ask me "why the worlds hates America." I usually tell them "it's not entirely true, and a lot of it's based on jealousy" but this sort of shit really goes a long way to reinforcing the myth and making it fact. And while I can accept it in Hawaii, why the FUCK is Ibiza full of annoying, overprivileged and whiny Americans? Everyone knows it's full of soulless, deluded sex & drugs-crazed Brits. With all the house buying, hairdressing, furniture changing and wotnot this game is more like "Sims Turismo" than what I'd imagine a Test Drive game to be. I may be wrong but I don't think you can even sell a car until you don't have any space for it any more, and can't sell "prize" cars or even paint them or get rid of them, even if they're useless, hideous pieces of shit. I mean. EH? (posted this on 'This week I have mostly been playing' too, as that's where it should probably be.)
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Killer Miller
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Haha, whatup Diddly my old Outlaw nemesis. Was wondering if I dropped enough hints for you to figure it out. :)

I've been resisting the urge to buy TDU2. I wasn't a huge fan of the first one although I got the game so late all my friends had already moved on to other stuff. Seemed like a game you needed to play with a bunch of friends to have any fun. I would have bought 2 by now, but everything I'm reading suggests it's just another half done, glitch filled, rushed out racing game that's going to need multiple patches before it even starts working as advertised.

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Diddly
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Killer Miller
Feb 23 2011, 04:47 PM
just another half done, glitch filled, rushed out racing game that's going to need multiple patches before it even starts working as advertised.

And I think you pretty well wrote the main text for the Gamecell review there m8. :-/ Although have to say I am having some fun with it; it ain't as good as NFS Hot Pursuit but racing in traffic with AI that doesn't take every corner perfectly does make for considerably more interesting racing than the relentless snorefest that GT5 had morphed into at the stage I got to. I DL'd the original TDU demo to see what the differences are - and there aren't many. The cars look the same, the crash damage looks quite good but has no consequence, the interface is a bit friendlier to use (not hard, as it was a nightmare), the roads smoother (less taking off and crashing at 40mph) and there are dirt roads here there and everywhere now (to justify the SUVs). But no bikes (I quite enjoyed them for a complete contrast it styles in the first game, unlike the bikes in PGR4 which were a waste of time and space) and the Oahu scenery really doesnt look any different, and if anything the pop-up seems worse.
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