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Rating the DVD Releases of Sound Serials; Best picture and sound quality available on DVD
Topic Started: Jun 16 2014, 07:30 AM (21,468 Views)
The Batman
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I went through my serials that I have already watched, that have not been listed here yet, and compiled a list of the ones I think are worthy of inclusion.

Before I put them in, I thought I would list them here, to get a rough idea if people agree.

Adventures of the Flying Cadets - VCI

The Black Widow - AC Comics

Blackhawk - AC Comics

Daredevils of the Red Circle - AC Comics

The Fighting Devil Dogs - AC Comics

The Galloping Ghost - Alpha

The Invisible Monster - AC Comics

Jack Armstrong - VCI

Jesse James Rides Again - Cheezy

King of the Mounties - Serial Squadron

King of the Royal Mounted - VCI

King of the Texas Rangers - AC Comics

The Last Frontier - Roan

The Lost City of the Jungle - Serial Squadron - I realize I have the VCI edition listed, but when I checked I found I had the SS version, so can anyone vouch for one over the other?

Manhunt on Mystery Island - AC Comics

The Masked Marvel - AC Comics

The Master Key - Serial Squadron

Mysterious Dr. Satan - AC Comics

Mystery Trooper - Grapevine

The Oregon Trail - VCI

The Painted Stallion - Serial Squadron

Panther Girl of the Kongo - AC Comics

The Phantom of the West - Alpha

Radio Patrol - Serial Squadron

The Royal Mounted Rides Again - VCI

Rustlers of Red Dog - Serial Squadron

Secret Service in Darkest Africa - AC Comics

Tim Tyler's Luck - VCI


* For the AC Comics entries, I realize they are just copied from the Republic VHS tapes, but since those are (I believe) the best sources for Republic serials, and many of us don't have the VHS tapes, I think they qualify for the best editions out there, as a whole, if not a title-by-title basis.



Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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Frank Hale
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Willie, you obviously just love serials. I think your rating system is nuts, and that you would still give a 6 to a film with an opening title card of "Republic Presents" followed by 3 hours of blank screen.

But that's OK, we love your enthusiasm. And yeah, since serials and Grood-bashing are always favorites here, how about more people chiming in?
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JazzGuyy
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The Batman
Jun 21 2014, 02:20 PM
* For the AC Comics entries, I realize they are just copied from the Republic VHS tapes, but since those are (I believe) the best sources for Republic serials, and many of us don't have the VHS tapes, I think they qualify for the best editions out there, as a whole, if not a title-by-title basis.



The best sources for Republic serials are the LaserDiscs but these are only a subset of the Republics issued by them. There are only around 15 or so (I can't remember the exact count) of Republic serials issued on LaserDisc. LaserDisc had 25-30 percent higher resolution than VHS tapes.
TANSTAAFL!
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riddlerider
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williejg
Jun 21 2014, 12:48 PM
LG~ What's the difference if Grood added a music soundtrack to THE VANISHING LEGION? I don't remember if he did or not, but it would certainly enhance the viewing pleasure. I'd say it's worth a 7.5-8.


I thank Willie for validating my decision to refrain from participating in this project. I'm glad you guys are having a good time, but to me it's pointless. In the first place, grading is a subjective exercise. You can try to rate image quality based on such difficult-to-quantify criteria as tonal range and grain density, but one man's 6.5 could be another man's 8.5.

Personally, I reject any tampering with the original material, and one of the reasons Eric got mad at me was my vigorous criticisms of his added color, sound effects, and musical tracks. I've got no use for latter-day bootleggers who substitute their artistic judgments for those of the filmmakers. Willie might well think that music added after the fact enhances the viewing experience, but I submit that most people who first encountered the serial in its original form would find such tampering a distraction.

Being supremely arrogant, Eric has always believed himself capable of "improving" serials by adding elements instead of confining his efforts to digital cleanup and sound equalization, which are perfectly legitimate applications of today's technology. That's one of the reasons I objected to him calling himself a "restorationist" when he's anything but.

Leaving aside the issue of editorial alterations, most of the serials floating around on DVD have "print quality" that would be considered abysmal by professional standards. That's generally due to shortcomings in the source materials, which more often than not are used, carelessly processed 16mm film prints — or even second-generation 16mm "dupes." I once tried to talk the Restored Serials guy out of spending hundreds of hours cleaning up his transfer of The Green Archer. He was very proud of his frame-by-frame cleanup and image stabilization, but the underlying 16mm print was a mediocre dupe. He didn't stop to consider the old adage, "Garbage in, garbage out." As a result, he's got the cleanest-looking version of a transfer that still looks and sounds lousy.

Here's a question for you guys: Once the ratings are all in, if a serial about which you've always been curious has a shitty quality rating — say, a 3 or less — will that stop you from seeing it (especially if there's only one version available)? Bad quality never stopped me, because my primary purpose was seeing everything. There was a reason to be picky about quality in the 16mm days, because buying a serial was a genuinely costly proposition — several hundred dollars or more. But in an era when you can get DVD bootlegs for ten bucks, why so fussy?
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The Batman
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JazzGuyy
Jun 21 2014, 02:53 PM
The Batman
Jun 21 2014, 02:20 PM
* For the AC Comics entries, I realize they are just copied from the Republic VHS tapes, but since those are (I believe) the best sources for Republic serials, and many of us don't have the VHS tapes, I think they qualify for the best editions out there, as a whole, if not a title-by-title basis.



The best sources for Republic serials are the LaserDiscs but these are only a subset of the Republics issued by them. There are only around 15 or so (I can't remember the exact count) of Republic serials issued on LaserDisc. LaserDisc had 25-30 percent higher resolution than VHS tapes.

Thanks, Jazzy. I knew there were some Republic serials on laserdisc, didn't know how many, but figured most people wouldn't own them.


Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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The Batman
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riddlerider
Jun 21 2014, 02:57 PM
my decision to refrain from participating in this project. I'm glad you guys are having a good time, but to me it's pointless. In the first place, grading is a subjective exercise. You can try to rate image quality based on such difficult-to-quantify criteria as tonal range and grain density, but one man's 6.5 could be another man's 8.5.

Here's a question for you guys: Once the ratings are all in, if a serial about which you've always been curious has a shitty quality rating — say, a 3 or less — will that stop you from seeing it (especially if there's only one version available)? Bad quality never stopped me, because my primary purpose was seeing everything. There was a reason to be picky about quality in the 16mm days, because buying a serial was a genuinely costly proposition — several hundred dollars or more. But in an era when you can get DVD bootlegs for ten bucks, why so fussy?

RR, first, thanks for finally chiming in. I was hoping for your input, if it's not exactly how I expected it.

Second, I agree about the numerical rating part of this exercise and I regret adding the 1-10 column for the fact it is so subjective. But I do believe the chart is valid in pointing out the best DVD version of each serial available. It'll save people $10 here or there, if nothing else.

On that basis, I really hope you participate with your thoughts on the best DVD releases available, whether you refrain from a numerical rating or not, I know your input will be invaluable.


Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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Frank Hale
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And exactly what is wrong with wanting to see what the consensus is on the best copy of an available serial?

It's good information, and each person can decide if he wants to go for it, given his price and serial-pain thresholds, no matter the format.
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rodney
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I've got the Squadron Fighting Marines around here. I'll check it out and report back. As I recall, it looks pretty good.
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Laughing Gravy
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I'll watch a Pirate's Treasure that's a 6 (best available copy) over a Return of Chandu that's a 9. These are things to help us make decisions, but we still make our own cherces.

"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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Laughing Gravy
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More info or my own opinion or serials not contributed yet:

Hop Harrigan (Grapevine Video, one DVD-R): 6. No extras.

The Phantom Creeps (VCI, one DVD): 8. Includes 7 mins. of trailer clips and a lousy print of a Porky Pig cartoon.

The Fighting Devil Dogs (AC Comics, 2 DVD-Rs): 8. Includes ch. 2 of Undersea Kingdom and 25 min. of clips from serial trailers.

Cap'n Midnight (VCI, 2 DVDs): 8. Includes photo gallery and trailers for The Green Archer, Secret Code, Vigilante, and Iron Claw.

"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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rodney
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Fighting Marines (SS on two DVD-R's) 8, although I suspect that Eric may have monkeyed with the credits, putting the chapter one credits on every chapter. I'm not super familiar with Mascots though so I can't say for sure.

Good print, crisp, but shows signs of wear. Nothing distracting.

Extras include a Flip the Frog cartoon, trailer, and newsreel. They all look pretty lousy.
Edited by rodney, Jun 22 2014, 04:29 AM.
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Laughing Gravy
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How can an "old, worn print" be "sharp as a tack"? I wonder. Hmmm.

Secret Agent X-9's photo gallery was mainly supplied by me, hence my "special thanks" in the credits. This is the '45 version. 2 discs. Agree with the 8. Unless it's higher. Hmmm.

The Galloping Ghost (Alpha, 1 DVD, no extras): 6. One of those ones I'd watch as a 6 over more highly-regarded serials that are 8's. A very good serial.

"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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riddlerider
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Laughing Gravy
Jun 22 2014, 09:11 AM
How can an "old, worn print" be "sharp as a tack"? I wonder. Hmmm.

You're kidding, right? The sharpness of a print is not affected by age or wear. Prints identified as "worn" have excessive scratches, splices, surface dirt, torn or cracked sprocket holes, and multiple sets of punched cue marks for commercial breaks (in the case of TV prints). It's not just old prints that acquire these defects, but the older a print the more likely it is to have been used enough to show such defects.
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outerlimit
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Earlier in this thread it was said that the Image set of the Flash Gordon trilogy was the best.I have it but Flash Gordon's Trip To Mars is markedly inferior in quality in my view.Why? It looks like a straight transfer from their VHS (which I also have)-right down to the irritating cutting off of the end titles of the mid chapter.
I often wonder whether the original was tinted and the surviving prints are black and white dupes from it......
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Laughing Gravy
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Sorry, but to my old eyes, "a worn print" and an image that's "sharp as a tack" aren't congruous. Worn prints lose detail.
"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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