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Porky Pig 101; no good.
Topic Started: Sep 22 2017, 10:55 AM (2,910 Views)
Laughing Gravy
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I'm very pleased to see passionate film fans discuss this. Thank you.
"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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JazzGuyy
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A lot of the transfers that K-L are getting I would think result from efforts to provide masters for streaming. The studios do have an interest in getting their color movies ready for streaming. The surprising things are the silents, serials and b&w movies. Some of this may result from studios just deciding to digitize their librairies. Once you've digitized something, it's pretty easy to give it to whomever you please. I don't know. K-L could decide to do further work on the digital material but I am always scared that stuff will be overscrubbed or that games will be played with contrast and color grading.

I have no idea how much work it would have taken to get the proper music with some of the Porky cartoons. Warner Archive pretty much indicated that they worked with existing masters in many cases. Editing out the incorrect music and adding the correct stuff means new masters. If the readily available source has the wrong music, you also have to get into audio editing so it's a little more complicated than just using an existing source to generate a new master.

Some of the color WB cartoons (though maybe not Porky stuff) can be used on the cartoon cable channels and possibly for streaming but I don't think the b&w stuff would draw much of an audience and is probably way down the list of things to be either restored or just remastered. I'm really surprised that this set of Porky cartoons, almost all of which are b&w, ever saw the light of day in any form. I don't hold out much hope there will ever be Bosko or Inki sets beyond what is already out there and probably very little, if any, of the two-strip technicolor cartoons not featuring characters like Porky, Daffy, etc. Even these last may not ever come out. If the Porky set gets poor reception, you can forget just about anything else cartoon-wise from Warner ever showing up on physical media, except maybe some Bugs stuff. I can't help notice that a good percentage of the Warner Archive recent releases have been post-1980 TV shows. Clearly there is a market for the nostalgia of people now entering middle age.

All the Warner Archive stuff is niche product, appealing to the collector, film buff and nostalgia-driven. The thing that has probably kept it alive is that the use of DVD-R is very cheap and keeps inventory to a minimum. The masters used probably all serve double or triple duty on TCM and Warner's various streaming services. The Blu-Rays may be accidents of HD remastering for cable and streaming and the fairly low current costs of BD production. I think it was once contemplated to go with BD-R but those discs have had problems in some players. I don't think Warner wants to deal with returned discs. Is anyone using BD-R for commercial releases?

I'm not trying to defend Warner. Whether this set is acceptable is a judgment each person will have to make. I just want to understand why they did what they did and what the ramifications of low sales might be on the future of this kind of material. I don't think the prognosis is great. I hope I am wrong.
TANSTAAFL!
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Frank Hale
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Frankly, Gravy, I'm glad to see ANYONE discussing ANYTHING on this site.

I think some of you purists miss a key point, and that is that the Archive people have to report to WB senior management. After the Rupert Murdoch take-over attempt some years ago, management went on record that they were going to focus on getting the stock price back up; which is to say, start making money, and right now, not tomorrow.

That is why (IMO, and without any inside information) we saw the Archive website outsourced to those idiots at Bolder Road, and why it stopped having so many sales.

As to the Porky set, I am a purist at heart also, but I am also aware that what we might wish for doesn't always translate into reality.

It's the old argument of letting "perfect" be the enemy of "good". I believe the Archive people basically love their library and have good intentions, but must still work within the system.

You can rant and rave as much as you want, and you can send in your complaints to the restoration people for their bad decisions, but the bottom line is that the Archive had to make some economic / artistic choices to get the set out for purchase. Each consumer can decide if it is sufficiently up to his personal standards to warrant laying out some bucks.

If you don’t agree with that, buy up a controlling interest in WB stock and change their policies. Money is all that counts for those big guys.
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Laughing Gravy
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Frank Hale
Sep 24 2017, 04:26 PM
Frankly, Gravy, I'm glad to see ANYONE discussing ANYTHING on this site.
Well, that's hardly MY fault, now is it? How was I to know that nobody wanted to discuss Macabre, Beat the Band, or The Brain Eaters in depth and for 4-5 pages at least?
"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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Frank Hale
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Definitely not your fault. We have merely collectively acquired self-induced intellectual stasis.

http://forum.mindandmuscle.net/7463-self-induced-intellectual-stasis

Of course, you COULD have watched Lawrence of Arabia and generated a few paragraphs.
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thadk
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JazzGuyy
Sep 24 2017, 03:41 PM
A lot of the transfers that K-L are getting I would think result from efforts to provide masters for streaming. The studios do have an interest in getting their color movies ready for streaming. The surprising things are the silents, serials and b&w movies. Some of this may result from studios just deciding to digitize their librairies. Once you've digitized something, it's pretty easy to give it to whomever you please. I don't know. K-L could decide to do further work on the digital material but I am always scared that stuff will be overscrubbed or that games will be played with contrast and color grading.
The Republic material I've worked with—what Paramount says "is ready for primetime"—has been all over the place. Frame jumping out of the gate every scene; terrible flickering; showers of dirt. Believe me, there is no excessive scrubbing or games being played—the time isn't there, but Kino is at least trying to make it look the best it can.
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The Batman
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First, I must agree that it has been great to see a lively and interesting discussion occurring around here. It's been missed.

As for the Porky controversy, both sides have presented valid points.

I have cancelled my order, for now, and am torn as to whether I should reorder or not. I do want to see them, and being far from an expert, I probably won't notice any of the music changes, etc.

I am curious about the censored cartoon. What's it all about? What cartoon and what was censored?

Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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thadk
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Honestly, you'd do well to order it, just to have all these in one place in some capacity. While I applaud an idea for a set on the level of "Porky Pig 101", this kind of collection should never have been proposed or greenlit if the money and time weren't going to be allowed to do it properly, especially one full of material WB has no intention of ever returning to again (they've said as much—so for most of these, this really is it).

"Porky the Wrestler" got censored way back in 1942... It's some sort of blackface joke... I personally have never seen it... A friend of mine did see it back in the '70s, courtesy of the great Bob Clampett, but just about every copy is sourced from that '42 edit.
Edited by thadk, Sep 25 2017, 07:53 AM.
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The Batman
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Thanks, Thad, and I'm inclined to agree with you, better to have this than nothing at all.

Though, I do wonder, if we all support this, will it make Warner go the extra mile on the next set, or just put out a "Bugs" or "Daffy" or whatever set with the same half-hearted effort?

Either way, LG, I never again want to hear you posting your complaints about the Serial Squadron's version of CAPTAIN AMERICA using the same opening on every chapter.

You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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rodney
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The Batman
Sep 25 2017, 08:05 AM
Though, I do wonder, if we all support this, will it make Warner go the extra mile on the next set, or just put out a "Bugs" or "Daffy" or whatever set with the same half-hearted effort?


That's exactly what concerns me most of all. I haven't sent my set back yet, and may wind up keeping it after all (I'm kind of lazy too), but I don't want them to think that this is ultimately acceptable.
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The Batman
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For that reason, I will get the set, but later on.

I know my one sale won't tip the scales, but I've got plenty to watch right now and since I am destined to get the DVD-R version regardless of when I order, there is no rush.

Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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Frank Hale
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I'm still a bit peeved about that Captain America disc myself.

I won’t go off on another jag, but I don’t think there's much comparison between the Archive and Grood, motivation -wise.
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Laughing Gravy
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I don't find this set to be "half-hearted" at all and I see no correlation between it and Grood manually changing credits on serials.
"I'm glad that this question came up, because there are so many ways to answer it that one of them is bound to be right." - Robert Benchley
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rodney
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Laughing Gravy
Sep 25 2017, 06:57 PM
I don't find this set to be "half-hearted" at all and I see no correlation between it and Grood manually changing credits on serials.
You don't see a correlation between manually changing credits and manually changing the music over the credits?

I agree that the credit issue is worse (and the motivation makes it even worse. Being careless is different from having an agenda), but alteration is alteration (or more appropriately in this case, "pigs is pigs").
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The Batman
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OK, guys, explain to me why Grood is so evil for using the same credits on each chapter, yet Warner Archive are saints who must not be disparaged.

Seriously, they are just freaking credits. After the first chapter, I fast forward them anyway.

But changed music, censoring, etc is OK, because hey Warners "did their best".

And perhaps that was all that was available to Grood. Do you know otherwise for sure?

Perhaps I'm reading your comments wrong, but honestly they sound a little hypocritical.

Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman...then always be Batman!
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