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Religion Megathread; The formation of life on Earth.
Topic Started: May 13 2007, 12:48 PM (1,563 Views)
stormbreaker
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Mr. Panda
Jun 13 2008, 01:02 PM
God is atheist.

Faith is the belief in something which we do not have knowledge of or have no proof of. God, being omniscient, has no faith. Also, because God is the highest being, he cannot believe in a higher being.

So you admit there's a God, then?

Oh boy, you think it's hot NOW. A Christian just said something! Here it comes! Haha.

Perhaps if God is omniscient, he thinks on a higher level than us and we can't be expected to understand his logic. The idea of belief in God is to grow closer to him, not comprehend his logic. Yeah, he's killed millions of people because he was angry, and we can understand that, but there's so much more to God and Christianity than most atheists will argue about.

That being said, I don't want an argument with atheists. I always frown when I see a religion fight going on through Digg's comment system, however funny they might be. ;)
I do, however welcome a healthy debate on the topic. Talking to you guys always gives me new ideas and as always, even just writing this has given me something to think about.
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Ethan_odd
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If we aren't expected to understand his logic, then what's the point of even trying to.

I prefer fact to fiction.
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Mars
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Igor Bonanimals
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stormbreaker
Jun 14 2008, 02:12 PM

That being said, I don't want an argument with atheists. 

I don't believe in God. Am I allowed to comment?
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stormbreaker
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Mars
Jun 14 2008, 09:49 PM
stormbreaker
Jun 14 2008, 02:12 PM
That being said, I don't want an argument with atheists. 

I don't believe in God. Am I allowed to comment?

Stormbreaker
 
I do, however welcome a healthy debate on the topic.


Yeah, of course! My point was that I wasn't interested in everyone acting all immature and trying to force their views on everyone else. I'd like to hear what you have to say.
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Mars
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stormbreaker
Jun 15 2008, 03:20 PM
Mars
Jun 14 2008, 09:49 PM
stormbreaker
Jun 14 2008, 02:12 PM
That being said, I don't want an argument with atheists. 

I don't believe in God. Am I allowed to comment?

Stormbreaker
 
I do, however welcome a healthy debate on the topic.


Yeah, of course! My point was that I wasn't interested in everyone acting all immature and trying to force their views on everyone else. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Alright, here's my convoluted two cents worth. Note this is unedited and typed in a rush.

I don't follow any religion because I believe that there is no evidence for God's existence and therefore the whole thing is a waste of time for me, personally. Note I said 'personally.' Let me stress that. I'm not one of those condescending pricks who walks around saying shit like "If Jesus Returns, Kill Him Again" (that's an actual banner I saw). I'm a guy who believes that Jesus did not walk on water, for reasons that are true to me. That doesn't mean anyone who thinks otherwise is a blind fool. Atheists lower themselves to the level of fundamentalism they claim to hate so much by being arrogant and insensitive. Richard Dawkins is a prime example of this. Any point he could hope to make in order to convince the faithful that they are wrong is lost in his stream of elitist insults and superiour manner. All he ends up doing is preaching to the choir (pardon the pun) and giving other elitists some good laughs at the expense of a bunch of people who are essentially well-meaning and nice.

That's what atheists need to come to grips with. Religion is not the root of all evil, nor is it the cause of all wars. It's not even the cause of most wars, actually. Look back over the last one hundred years and you will see fairly conclusive proof of that. There was a time when I would look down on someone for believing in a higher power. I have learnt that taking such a stance is ignorant, and disadvantageous to the progress of society. I have deep respect for people who claim to have a relationship with God. I'd almost go so far as to say I envy some aspect of that experience.

Yes, there is bigotry and ignorance in religion. Anyone who wants to teach creation in a science classroom is misguided, at best. Anyone who wants to remove a woman's right to choose is a cockring. Anyone who says gays are an unnatural abomination is a huge douche. Anyone who blows up a building in the name of God is a fucking incredible douche, of unimaginable magnitude. I can only hope these sorts of religious fundamentalists will become less and less of a problem over time. The most important thing that helped me accept religion was simply being friends with (and therefore getting to know) religious people. I'm not just talking Christian here. I have had many long discussions with a close Muslim friend of mine. He's intelligent, funny, very well spoken and educated on all of his beliefs. It was kind of like a wake up call, saying "This guy is not going to hurt anyone in his life. How the fuck can you say religion is a bad thing?" Another big part of what it took for me to accept religion as an important part of society was simply realising the good it does. There are thousands of charities in the world that are founded by churches. One might argue that charity doesn't need God behind it. My response to that is, God IS behind those charities. People are doing good things because their religion teaches them to. And if you think that's bad then, you're either the 14 year old version of me, or you need to do some serious thinking.
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Mr. Awesome
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I love you Ed.

That's more or less my opinion on religion, although I do think religion is a cause for war.
Guess what! I'm writing a book called Nuclear Winter!
giggleguy
 
That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
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stormbreaker
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Mars
Jun 15 2008, 12:11 AM
Alright, here's my convoluted two cents worth. Note this is unedited and typed in a rush.

Quite the contrary. I agree with you COMPLETELY!

I'm very impressed with that work if it is indeed unedited and typed quickly because that was a work of art I just read!

I understand your urgency to insist this is your personal experience, and I'm grateful to say the least that you feel obligated to say so. I entirely agree with your idea of arrogant and insensitive atheists - one of the reasons I frown when reading such things.

I'm glad to hear you have this respect for religious people. I like to think I have an open and respectful attitude towards atheists as well, although sometimes it is difficult when they simply insist on having you shove the less appealing end of a flagpole up their bloated ass. I'm referring to the disrespectful atheists which we are talking about, speaking to you or lumpunzik or any other number of my atheist friends is just as normal as any conversation with one of my Christian friends. I used to be atheist, if you didn't know, so I feel that I've seen (and still do, when I talk to you guys) at least a glimpse of your perspective. Knowing that makes me all the more thankful that you've decided to take a responsible and mature view towards people with different beliefs. Thanks. :D

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Anyone who wants to teach creation in a science classroom is misguided, at best.

Agreed. That's just as bad as atheists trying to force their views on religious people - there's a time and place, and it's not the public school system and it's sure as hell not now.

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Anyone who wants to remove a woman's right to choose is a cockring.

Agreed.

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Anyone who blows up a building in the name of God is a fucking incredible douche, of unimaginable magnitude.

And agreed. There's just no reason for that. It goes against the whole idea of God to begin with, in my opinion.


I really am glad that be can agree on stuff like this. It's strange but an interesting learning opportunity to see how we can share the same thoughts and (forgive me if this is too blunt) moralistic beliefs and yet differ on religious beliefs. Talking to someone over the internet is one thing; going out into the world and talking to someone personally about their belief is a whole 'nother story. I'm glad you tried that.

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I'd almost go so far as to say I envy some aspect of that experience.

It's nice - most of the time. What are you referring to with this? I find this development specifically interesting.
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Mars
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Igor Bonanimals
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Glad you liked it, it felt good to write. I really could have summed up my ideas better though. Storm, I noticed you didn't quote my point about homosexuality. What's your take? (Edit: I just realised you weren't saying I had lesser morals, but I left the following point in because a lot of Christians make that argument.) Also, I disagree with the idea that Christians are morally more 'right'. I think it's definitely possible for someone to be morally right and not follow the Bible. But it probably helps.

When I say I envy the experience, I'm probably using the wrong words. What I mean is - I have heard people talk about experiences with God and based on their descriptions I often think "that would be beautiful." This quote from one of my favourite authors really makes me curious.

David Wong
 
If there's no God, then there is something in the human brain that can and does present an amazingly realistic impression of one. A gland, an artifact of environmental pattern recognition, whatever you want to pin it on, the result is, at certain times and in certain moods, as tangible and real and distinct as the person sitting across from you on the subway.


Can anyone here relate? I'd be very interested to hear.

One more thing on the whole 'respect' thing. I just saw the trailer for Bill Maher's "Religulous." Now, I love Bill Maher. I listen to his show Real Time and I think he's a really smart and entertaining guy. But seeing him talking to naive people on camera and asking them "Do you believe in the talking snake?" just pisses me off. Don't be a douche. Have some respect. Just because you think they're wrong (and Bill, we're in the same boat here) doesn't mean you should tell them that. It's the same way atheists get mad when a Christian tells us we're going to Hell. I want to say, "Your belief system dictates that I must be going to hell, but please don't tell me that."

Finally, I should say I have taken up the habit of not referring to myself as an atheist, due to the negative connotations that have recently become associated with the word. If a Christian asks me, do you believe in God? I just say "I don't believe in that God." Note the "that". Some people say God is just human kindness. Maybe so. In that case, I guess I'm a devout believer.
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Mr. Awesome
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When people ask me if I believe in God, I tell them "I don't believe in God, but I'm going to church to find out if I should."

In my opinion, an atheist should know more about the Bible and different religions than any other, to want to not believe.
Guess what! I'm writing a book called Nuclear Winter!
giggleguy
 
That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
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stormbreaker
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Sorry, it wasn't my intention. I was quoting in an abstract manner, I must have missed that point. I agree on your take. While I don't view them as an abomination, I don't MIND them unless they're hitting on me (I have devilishly good looks to all who gaze upon me). I actually have several gay friends whom I know quite well. I don't think that A LOT of Christians think gays are bad, but some definitely do. Enough to make a point, you know?

While I don't think having religion in your life makes you GOOD (especially if Allah is telling you to kill yourself and take 27 others with you), I think that it reinforces good behavior. You said something similar.
Quote:
 
People are doing good things because their religion teaches them to.

I'd also like to point out that it's also possible to not be morally right and try to follow the Bible. I know people who try to do this, unfortunately. But there are good people in the world who don't believe in a higher being.

I think I know about what you mean with regards to enjoying the experience of religion.

While I've never talked with God, I feel his presence with me when I ask for it. Mostly I think that's because those are the times I'm looking for it. I know he's always there.

I've never really thought about it until now, but I know at least I hold the word 'atheist' with a negative connotations sometime. Mostly when I don't know the person personally. Maybe it's because I don't know if they're gonna start flaming me with shit or not, but I think there's truth in what you say.

EDIT: Here's one of my favorite songs of all time. It's called Deathbed, by relient k. You might have heard of them before, most people don't even bother to listen to them because they're Christian Rock, but this song is truly unique. It's a 12 minute song, so I'd recommend downloading it and listening along with lyrics online. I know I'm going on for a while on this song, but it's one of my favorites, and if I ever need reassurance of my faith in my God, this song is sure to pull me through. I love the lyrics, the story, the genius, the musicality. It's an amazing experience for me. I'm interested to see how you'll take this song. If you don't have 12 minutes of free time RIGHT NOW, that's fine, just save it somewhere and listen to it privately sometime and get back to me. Thanks.
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Mr. Awesome
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I'm downloading this song, just for you, even though I've heard Reliant K blasted countless times in my youth group and hated it.

EDIT: Well, congratulations, I now see Reliant K in a different light. I still don't believe in God, but hearing that song, the thought of something after death is nice.
Guess what! I'm writing a book called Nuclear Winter!
giggleguy
 
That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
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stormbreaker
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Mr. Awesome
Jun 17 2008, 08:56 AM
I'm downloading this song, just for you, even though I've heard Reliant K blasted countless times in my youth group and hated it.

EDIT: Well, congratulations, I now see Reliant K in a different light. I still don't believe in God, but hearing that song, the thought of something after death is nice.

relient k. No 'a' and all lowercase, yo.

Really? Some of it's good, they're starting to inch toward a countryish style in recent times, their new EP that's coming out especially. But I love their old stuff.

Of course you still don't believe in God. I want it made clear that I did not show you that song with the intention of changing your religious views. No song could ever do that. But this song does something to me emotionally and spiritually every time I listen to it. I thought I'd share that with you guys. I'm deeply interested in your reaction, and I expect something else interesting from Mars. Thanks guys.
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Mr. Awesome
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My apologies on my butchering of the spelling. I figured the least I could do was humor you and listen to it.
Guess what! I'm writing a book called Nuclear Winter!
giggleguy
 
That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
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stormbreaker
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Mars? I'm eagerly awaiting your response...
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Mars
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Igor Bonanimals
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There wasn't really much to reply to, as you answered most of my queries. The thing about feeling God's presence was interesting though.

Also, relient/reliant/whatever are probably great, but I just have a blanket ban on Christian Rock. Hillsong's evils will never be erased from my mind.
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