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| This one gets complicated...; What should a teacher be allowed to say. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 5 2006, 01:18 PM (370 Views) | |
| artvark | Mar 5 2006, 01:18 PM Post #1 |
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I'll give my own opinion later on. I've certainly got one on the subject, but I'm curious to see other's opinions before potentially skewing debate by giving my own. Not hubris, just an attempt to learn from others on this board. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...ack=1&cset=true |
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"Get out the tapemeasure...looooong gone." Pat Hughes is baseball radio magic. | |
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| NateFizzle | Mar 5 2006, 01:21 PM Post #2 |
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The link says we have to register so could you please just copy and paste the article. |
Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)![]() | |
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| artvark | Mar 5 2006, 01:24 PM Post #3 |
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My apologies. Here you are. School busts teacher for Bush-bashing Unpaid leave spurs free-speech fracas By Nicholas Riccardi Tribune Newspapers: Los Angeles Times Published March 5, 2006 DENVER -- It was the day after President Bush's State of the Union address, and social studies teacher Jay Bennish was warning his world geography class not to be taken in. "Sounds a lot like the things that Adolf Hitler used to say," Bennish told students at the suburban high school. "We're the only ones who are right, everyone else is backward and our job is to conquer the world." The teacher quickly made clear that he wasn't equating the president with Hitler, but the damage was done. A sophomore in the class had recorded the lecture on an MP3 player, and last week it was played during a local conservative radio show. Bennish, a five-year veteran of Overland High School, in Aurora, Colo., was placed on unpaid leave by the Cherry Creek School District on Wednesday, sparking an uproar over issues of free speech and proper classroom behavior. About 150 Overland students walked out of school on Thursday to protest Bennish's absence, and the teacher's lawyer has threatened a federal lawsuit. But after a meeting Friday with district officials, the lawyer, David Lane, told the Denver Post his client wouldn't sue before the district finishes an investigation into the matter. "I have to see what they're going to do," Lane told the Post. Lane argued on Denver's Mike Rosen radio show, which originally played the recording, that what Bennish said is not so outlandish and was intended to provoke his students into thinking about current events. "Maybe it's not mainstream, middle American opinion," Lane said Friday morning. "But the rest of the world agrees with him." Lane added that if Bennish had spoken in support of Bush, he would not be under scrutiny. Tustin Amole, a spokeswoman for the school district, said officials were investigating whether Bennish had violated a policy that says teachers may not intimidate students who hold political beliefs different from their own. "Teachers do have a 1st Amendment right to express their opinion," Amole said, "but it must be in the context of the material being taught and it must provide a balanced point of view." The Cherry Creek district serves 47,000 students in an arc of suburbs southeast of Denver. A partial transcript of Bennish's class taken from the student's recording showed the teacher voicing a wide range of criticisms of U.S. policy and the Iraq war. Bennish has not disputed the recording's accuracy. He noted that U.S. troops have spent 30 years fighting the drug war in Colombia and using "chemical weapons" to eradicate coca fields, cited more than 7,000 "terrorist sabotage acts" committed by the U.S. against Cuba and called the United States "probably the single most violent nation on Earth." During the class, Bennish questioned why the United States is allowed to wage war in the Middle East but Palestinians are condemned as terrorists for attacking Israel. A student interjected that the United States does not single out civilians, unlike Palestinian terrorists. The teacher asked how Israel was created, and pointed out that early Zionists used assassination and bombings to create their state. According to the transcript, Bennish concluded by telling his students: "I'm not implying in any way you should agree with me. . . . What I'm trying to do is to get you to . . . think about these issues more in depth." Rodney Smolla, dean of the University of Richmond Law School in Virginia and a 1st Amendment expert, said that courts allow school districts to regulate teachers' speech. "Teachers have 1st Amendment rights to speak on matters of public interest in the general marketplace, but they don't have as great a level of rights when speaking inside the classroom, on matters related to the curriculum," he said. |
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"Get out the tapemeasure...looooong gone." Pat Hughes is baseball radio magic. | |
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| NateFizzle | Mar 5 2006, 01:31 PM Post #4 |
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Although I do not agree with his comments, I do believe he has the right to say them and should not have been punished. It would have been better to express his opinion in relation to his teaching, for instance when on the topic of say foreign policy talk about his opinions on it. But he has the freedom of speech as long as it doesn't endanger anybody which I don't think it did. So he should be given his payback. |
Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)![]() | |
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| bosoxdiehard | Mar 5 2006, 01:33 PM Post #5 |
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Don't agree with anything she said, but he has a right to free speech. |
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| sfgkml | Mar 5 2006, 01:49 PM Post #6 |
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Captain
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The teacher does have the right to free speech, though I don't agree with what the teacher said. However, the article did mention limited free speech when in the classroom; anyone know more on that? |
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| Element | Mar 5 2006, 02:03 PM Post #7 |
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The Original
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I don't think it is right for teachers to press (or even share) their political opinions on others. Find another way to get them thinking of current events. It was in no way a 'balanced point of view'. |
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| eye95 | Mar 5 2006, 03:21 PM Post #8 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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Here is what I posted on Civility. If you'd like to read the entire rant, there is a link near the bottom to the entire transcript. On the day after the State of the Union speech this year, Sean Allen attended his Geography class, taught by Jay Bennish, and taped it. He ostensibly taped it as a note-taking aid, but that tape turned into a smoking gun in a case where we, as a people, are going to make a political decision as to where the line is when a teacher expresses his political opinions in the class. Do teachers have an absolute free speech right in the classroom, or are certain types of speech legally restrictable? When a teacher expresses his opinion, is he imposing his ideas on the students or is he merely helping them form their own opinions by questioning others who might try to impose their ideas? Are there specific techniques that cross the line from education to indoctrination? Jay Bennish's lawyer claims that this is a free speech issue, that Bennish can essentially say anything in the classroom without consequence, and that anything short of gross incomptence is not disciplinable. The difficulty with this point of view is that it completely ignores the responsibility Bennish has to his students and to the community. In this case, Bennish is not solely a victim of government oppression of free speech. Bennish also is the government, and is, in the eyes of many of his students, giving the official government line. He has a huge responsibility to ensure that he really is promoting open-mindedness and is not descenting into diatribe. I believe that Bennish stepped way over the line between education and indoctrination. These are the specific behaviors that lead me to this conclusion: 1. The conversation was essentially one-way. The copious questioning by Bennish was not intended to evoke thoughtful responses. It was designed to elicit short, "factual" answers that merely supported the points Bennish was trying to make--and Bennish supplied almost all of those answers! Only twice during the entire questioning process did Bennish elicit answers from students. In neither case did he help the student explore his thinking. In one case, he agreed with and restated the answer. In the other, he plowed ahead, again answering his own question. Only Allen seemed to have exploratory thinking evoked, and that evocation was clearly more a result of incredulity than of a desire to answer any thought-provoking questions. Bennish was not trying to "make his students think." He was unabashedly telling them what to think.
2. The lecture occured while the students were copying definitions off the board. Students cannot both copy information off the board and rationally consider what Bennish is saying. Bennish's technique all but forces the information flow to be one-sided. 3. Bennish is presenting his opinions as facts. Rather than actually quote what President Bush said in the State of the Union, Bennish builds a strawman and proceeds to tear that strawman to pieces. The readers are invited to compare what Bennish claims the president said to what the president actually said. Bennish, though his lawyer, claims that he was trying to get his students to "question." If that were truly the case, he would have held a discussion, rather than talk over board-copying. He would've asked more open-ended questions. He would've solicited answers from the students. He would've allowed students to do most of the talking, interrupting only to correct mistaken facts and to spur on deeper exploration. He wouldn't have almost exclusively answered his own questions. He wouldn't have spoken over students' attempts to answer his questions. He would have encouraged answers of more than one or two words. This was indoctrination. Clearly. Should Bennish be fired? I don't think so. He should definitely be disciplined. A more experienced teacher should mentor him, helping him improve his technique for getting students involved and thinking. His classes should be monitored, in person or on tape, so he can be spot-checked to ensure his methods are improving. He should only be fired if this has been an ongoing problem (or becomes and ongoing problem) that Bennish refuses to correct. Teachers should be allowed and encouraged to express their opinions. To a small extent, this is a free-speech issue. However, to a larger extent, this is a responsibility issue. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| artvark | Mar 5 2006, 04:55 PM Post #9 |
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Eye, thanks for posting more of the lecture. While the object of the exercise is to get students to think, Machivellian techniques such as these need to be used VERY carefully. As a teacher, there is an inherent position of power over students. Expressing your point of view, even with the disclaimers of "I'm not trying to tell you what to think" are not sufficient due to the inherent imbalance of power in the classroom. Using one's own personal opinions to prove a point is a dangerous tactic that most pedagogical techniques frown upon. Much as I may agree with many of his points of view, his presentation of them in the classroom is a dangerous game and most likely innappropriate. |
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"Get out the tapemeasure...looooong gone." Pat Hughes is baseball radio magic. | |
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| NateFizzle | Mar 5 2006, 04:59 PM Post #10 |
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I'll have to agree with you guys. If it wasn't an opinion session to try to spark good conversation its uncalled for. It's kind of like a math teacher talking about sex. |
Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)![]() | |
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| eye95 | Mar 5 2006, 05:01 PM Post #11 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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*ahem* I am a math teacher. And, I like to believe I am quite competent at sex!
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<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| NateFizzle | Mar 5 2006, 05:06 PM Post #12 |
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Yeah, but you wouldn't tell your students all about it though. |
Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)![]() | |
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| eye95 | Mar 5 2006, 05:09 PM Post #13 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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Demonstration/performance would be a more effective teaching technique than discussion or lecture! |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| artvark | Mar 5 2006, 05:37 PM Post #14 |
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Why do I feel like I just stumbled into a Life of Brian excerpt...
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"Get out the tapemeasure...looooong gone." Pat Hughes is baseball radio magic. | |
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| ThomasTomasz | Mar 5 2006, 05:42 PM Post #15 |
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Party Domo
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If we as a country eliminate religion in public schools because it can influence some of the students, then we should eliminate the political exposure that teachers give to their students in public school. They can force these issues on the students, and thats not what we want. AP level courses in high school is fine, especially for AP Government and History courses, but anything besides that, teachers definately should not be allowing their politics to interfere with their teaching. |
| Cole Hamels invented the Internet. When Al Gore tried to take credit, Hamels K'd him with a curve...but not before hitting a homerun with his daughter. | |
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| eye95 | Mar 5 2006, 07:26 PM Post #16 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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I see only one solution to the problem of schools teaching kids in a way that is at odds with the students' families' values (religious, moral, and political): We need to eliminate public conduct of education in favor of public funding of education. Since schools cannot help but pass along values, families need to be able to choose schools that pass along values they want passed along. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| artvark | Mar 5 2006, 07:30 PM Post #17 |
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Could you elaborate on this point? I'm not certain what you mean by this.
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"Get out the tapemeasure...looooong gone." Pat Hughes is baseball radio magic. | |
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| eye95 | Mar 5 2006, 07:41 PM Post #18 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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Guarantee each student a certain amount of money each year to be spent on education. Each family would be free to choose to spend the money at a public school or at an accredited private school of their choice, allowing families to choose a school that will not indoctrinate their children with values the family believes is morally, ethically, religiously, or politically wrong. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| artvark | Mar 5 2006, 09:40 PM Post #19 |
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Interesting, but rather impractical. A) It would be tied up in the courts for years with lawsuits of every stripe B) What provisions would you suggest for the guarantee of standards being met? C) Would this, in your opinion, save money or cost more overall? Also, would the funds come from their current source (property taxes) or from some other source of taxation? |
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"Get out the tapemeasure...looooong gone." Pat Hughes is baseball radio magic. | |
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| kyyankgrrl | Mar 6 2006, 02:27 AM Post #20 |
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Feminist & Proud
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If teachers want to voice their opinions, use the op-ed sections of their local newspapers. Students are in class to learn, not hear a personal political rant. In 2004, when my great-nephew was in kindergarten, he came home and told his mother she should vote for George Bush. When she asked why, he said "because my teacher said so." His mother promptly had a discussion with the teacher, requesting that she stop campaigning via 5-year-olds, or the principal and school board would be informed. |
![]() Sig by Detroittigerfan28 In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author) Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr. | |
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7:39 PM Jul 10