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| Iran | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 6 2006, 01:46 PM (434 Views) | |
| Element | May 6 2006, 01:46 PM Post #1 |
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The Original
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What do you think we should do about Iran. Please keep it civil and intelligent. |
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| NateFizzle | May 6 2006, 04:03 PM Post #2 |
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Bomb the **** out of there nuclear development places. And assassinate their leader. |
Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)![]() | |
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| kyyankgrrl | May 7 2006, 08:24 AM Post #3 |
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Feminist & Proud
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Shouldn't the question be, why do "we" need to do anything? |
![]() Sig by Detroittigerfan28 In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author) Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr. | |
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| British_Pharaoh | May 7 2006, 08:31 AM Post #4 |
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Oeshbach you twat
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am I actually reading that right?? 'what should WE do about Iran' ??? thats unbelievable |
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| Element | May 7 2006, 10:53 AM Post #5 |
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The Original
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From Grumpy @ sportspot.net Iran is a militant, revolutionary, anti-status-quo power that bankrolls Hisb'allah and Syria, and cooperates with Al-Qaeda (to the extent that several of the most wanted are allowed to roam free in Iran). This is the same country that continued fighting the Iran-Iraq war for over 6 years after Saddam wanted to stop on the premise that they'd eventually roll through Iraq, overthrowing all of the gulf kingdoms/emirates (replacing them with revolutionary islamic republics), then through Saudi Arabia and Jordan, pushing Isreal into the sea. This was their "plan". A regime that employed human wave attacks and famously used children to clear minefields... by walking through them to set the mines off. Each one promised a direct ticket to paradise, of course. (<<< KYY, that was for you) A country that we almost went to war with in the late 80s, and again in the mid-90s after the Khobar Towers incident. A country that has used bombs to kill people in countries far from the ME... like in Argentina. The current president has threatened to "wipe Isreal off the map" several times now. It is also a regime with no clear power center as it is not an absolute dictatorship but rather a dictatorial theocracy... the lack of a clear leader makes the regime actions much harder to predict, and makes negotiation very difficult. Additionally, the nucleraization of Iran will put inexorable pressure on Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Syria to nuclearize as well. A regional nuclear arms race, inherently unstable. Israel will be compelled to participate. It would lack the components that made MAD work (although this strategy was not without its several crises) in the cold war: 1) a reliably deterrable foe, 2) actual time to respond to a first strike (the missiles would take 30 min from the USSR to the USA... the ME is much closer together). Imagine Pakistan-India times ten. Finally, achievement of a suitable nuclear "deterrent" would free Iran to conduct terrorist and revolutionary activities that has been unable to launch due to the constraints of the current power balance in the world. There are many ways Iran could cause intolerable trouble for the region and the west short of unleashing a nuclear blast. All of these options (further interference in (or invasion of) Shi'a Iraq, interference in Afghanistan, closing of the Straights or Hormuz, support for terrorism in the Levant and Israel, fomentation of islamist revolution in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, hegemony of OPEC, and eventual linkage with the growing muslim population in Europe) would be protected from countermeasures by the threat of Iran's nuclear weapons. Just as the USSR's nuclear umbrella protected it from retaliation from adventurism (and so encouraged it) in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, the Middle East, Angola, Congo, Nicaragua etc, so it would be in the case of Iran. Do we really want another 50+ year cold war (with the attendant small wars and interventions) with a much less stable and predictable foe, without a guarantee of support from Europe (thanks to the growing islamic populations there) all playing out over the world's reserves of energy? Requiring the permanent basing of troops in the Middle East, as was the case in Europe? Where we wouldn't be nearly as welcomed by the local populace as we were in Europe? I'm all for energy independence, as you all know... but even if we started today, it would still take 20+ years to build out enough nuclear plants, create the biomass programs, and convert enough coal plants to do so. Support for regime change from within, by support of democratic forces and ethnic minorities within Iran is important and worth trying, but if it doesn't work, then we need a backup because the risks to national security are simply intolerable. Recall that there is NO reason Iran "needs" a bomb. The only legititimate reason would be deterrence of outside invasion from the US (Iraq has been conveniently neutralized by our intervention there). But the only reason that the US would ever need to consider such an action would be Iranian support for terrorism and interference in other countries in the area. Hence, if the Iranian leadership were to simply renounce their expansive ambitions and terrorism, joining the mainstream family of nations they would be free from outside threat, and free to run their society as they saw fit. But they refuse to do so. And that's why they want and "need" the bomb... so that they can feel free of outside threats while they persue their expansive and revolutionary long-term goals. We saw the same dynamic in Afghanistan. If all the Taliban and Al-Qaeda wanted to do was be left alone to run society in their own islamist-utopian way, they could have done so (with some international criticism, but no invasion). But they had world wide goals as their true ambitions. And so it is with Iran; the leadership to be both a religious and regional superpower.
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| TheHugeUnit | May 7 2006, 11:00 AM Post #6 |
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Come on CC
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Well you got to treat them as a threat not only to American but the rest of the world. I wouldn't worry to much about them now though, they know if they strike us or anyone else they wouldn't have a chance to even say truce, the one country im worried about right now is China |
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| eye95 | May 7 2006, 11:19 AM Post #7 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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Because if "we" don't, no one will. Then Iran will get nukes and will use them on Israel, on us, or on both. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| British_Pharaoh | May 7 2006, 11:24 AM Post #8 |
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Oeshbach you twat
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very concise and absolute bollox |
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| eye95 | May 7 2006, 11:28 AM Post #9 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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And you have every right to express disagreement. I would just hope that you would provide support for that disagreement and not just express it. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| TheHugeUnit | May 7 2006, 11:28 AM Post #10 |
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Come on CC
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You don't shoot a guy when his father is pointing a gun at your head. Thats why i don't see them as a huge threat as of now |
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| eye95 | May 7 2006, 11:33 AM Post #11 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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World wars are started when we don't think that militaristic, despotic, extremist regimes, with goose-stepping parades, aren't a threat. Especially when some try to keep talking while that regime moves full speed ahead with its plans. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| TheHugeUnit | May 7 2006, 11:40 AM Post #12 |
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Come on CC
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ok they bombed the US, GB and Isreal, then what do they pull the covers over their heads and wait til its over.... |
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| eye95 | May 7 2006, 11:53 AM Post #13 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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OK, Germany invaded Poland, Czechoslovakia, and France. Just because it is stupid to the point of being suicidal does not mean a despot won't do it, particularly when the rest of the world looks like it won't take action...and it looks like the world is macmillaning again. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| TheHugeUnit | May 7 2006, 11:57 AM Post #14 |
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Come on CC
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Germany was technologically advanced back then, plus back in 1930's there was more strategy in invading and starting a war. Now if you kick us we aren't going to take 3 months to kick back. War has changed a lot in 75 years. Wars these days you get in a F-16 and bomb a city you don't get on your horse and ride across country and with a gun and a knife |
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| Cubbies10 | May 7 2006, 12:21 PM Post #15 |
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Im not taking either Side here, but Germany was allowed to Re-arm by the Aliies i.e Us, which was in contradiction to the Terms in the Versaille Treaty of the 1st World War, we did nothing to stop them. |
“Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living.”
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| eye95 | May 7 2006, 03:50 PM Post #16 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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Iran is on the verge of developing nukes, so the technology contrast is specious. Furthermore, our ability to strike back quickly will prove to be of little solace to the millions already dead. War may have changed in 74 years, but the wisdom of not allowing threats to develop unchecked has not. ________________ 2B: Your point about allowing Germany to rearm makes my analogy all the more on point. We cannot allow Iran to arm themselves with nukes. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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| TheHugeUnit | May 7 2006, 04:00 PM Post #17 |
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Come on CC
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Nukes don't make you technogocally advanced though, it takes more than that. So what your suggestioning is we nuke them before they Nuke us? Won't that cuz more trouble though, i mean people will see us as nuke happy and might try to control us by startign a war agaisnt us. |
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| NateFizzle | May 7 2006, 07:21 PM Post #18 |
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I don't think he was suggesting nuking them first. |
Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)![]() | |
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| TheHugeUnit | May 7 2006, 07:30 PM Post #19 |
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Come on CC
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well i tihnk he was suggestiing attacking them in someway |
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| eye95 | May 7 2006, 08:01 PM Post #20 |
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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No, the nukes make them dangerous, making any technological disparity specious. In both cases, it was/is the ability to kill millions was/is the concern being ignored by many in the vain hope that we can use diplomacy to achieve world peace. The vain hope for peace creates conditions ripe for despots to make war. Oh, and don't put words in my mouth. That is the one thing that will cause extrreme discourtesy from me. I said nothing about nuking them. |
<O> Danny's take on Israel LINK-->
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