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Pregnant Iraqi killed
Topic Started: May 31 2006, 06:06 PM (176 Views)
kyyankgrrl
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U.S. troops kill pregnant woman in Iraq
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women — one of them about to give birth — when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday. Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.

Jassim, the mother of two children, and her 57-year-old cousin, Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were killed by the U.S. forces, according to police Capt. Laith Mohammed and witnesses.

The U.S. military said coalition troops fired at a car after it entered a clearly marked prohibited area near an observation post but failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory warnings.

"Shots were fired to disable the vehicle," the military said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press. "Coalition forces later received reports from Iraqi police that two women had died from gunshot wounds ... and one of the females may have been pregnant."

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

He said doctors tried but failed to save the baby after his sister was brought to the hospital.

The shooting deaths occurred in the wake of an investigation into allegations that U.S. Marines killed unarmed civilians in the western city of Haditha.

The U.S. military said the incident in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, was being investigated. The city is in the heart of the so-called Sunni Triangle and has in the past seen heavy insurgent activity.

"The loss of life is regrettable and coalition forces go to great lengths to prevent them," the military said.

The women's bodies were wrapped in sheets and lying on stretchers outside the Samarra General Hospital before being taken to the morgue, while residents pointed to bullet holes on the windshield of a car and a pool of blood on the seat.

Khalid Nisaif Jassim, the pregnant woman's brother, said American forces had blocked off the side road only two weeks ago and news about the observation post had been slow to filter out to rural areas.

He said the killings, like those in Haditha, were examples of random killings faced by Iraqis every day.

The killings at Haditha, a city that has been plagued by insurgents, came after a bomb rocked a military convoy on Nov. 19, killing a Marine. Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record), D-Pa., a decorated war veteran who has been briefed by military officials, has said Marines shot and killed unarmed civilians in a taxi at the scene and went into two homes and shot others.

Military investigators have evidence that points toward unprovoked murders by Marines, a senior defense official said last week.

In his first public comments on the incident, President Bush said he was troubled by the allegations, and that, "If in fact laws were broken, there will be punishment."

Former Iraqi Foreign Minister Adnan Pachachi told the BBC that the allegations have "created a feeling of great shock and sadness and I believe that if what is alleged is true — and I have no reason to believe it's not — then I think something very drastic has to be done."

"There must be a level of discipline imposed on the American troops and change of mentality which seems to think that Iraqi lives are expendable," said Pachachi, a member of parliament.

If confirmed as unjustified killings, the episode could be the most serious case of criminal misconduct by U.S. troops during three years of combat in Iraq. Until now the most infamous occurrence was the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse involving Army soldiers, which came to light in April 2004 and which Bush said he considered to be the worst U.S. mistake of the entire war.

Once the military investigation is completed, perhaps in June, it will be up to a senior Marine commander in Iraq to decide whether to press charges of murder or other violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

The incident has sparked two investigations — one into the deadly encounter itself and another into whether it was the subject of a cover-up. The Marine Corps had initially attributed 15 civilian deaths to the car bombing and a firefight with insurgents, eight of whom the Marines reported had been killed.

"People in Samarra are very angry with the Americans not only because of Haditha case but because the Americans kill people randomly specially recently," Khalid Nisaif Jassim said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/ap_on_...aq_women_killed

**********

But I'm sure they appreciate the "freedom" we're bringing them....(please note sarcasm)
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British_Pharaoh
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Oeshbach you twat
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not surprised
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DetroitTigers06Champs

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I bet it was over exaggerated too, like she was going to give birth the exact time they killed her?
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kyyankgrrl
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She was on her way to the hospital.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Umm things like this are becoming way to familiar
“Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living.”

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eye95
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Gorilla...'nuff said
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I blame 3 people/groups:

1. Saddam, who created the situation in the first place. BTW, a LOT fewer people are dying now that he is gone.

2. The terrorists, who created the need for checkpoints and high security.

3. The idiots in the car, who did not stop at the checkpoint.

The people I don't blame? The soldiers who were doing their job and whose reasonable actions resulted in an unfortunate outcome as a result of the aforementioned people.
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kyyankgrrl
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eye95,May 31 2006
10:51 PM
I blame 3 people/groups:

1. Saddam, who created the situation in the first place. BTW, a LOT fewer people are dying now that he is gone.

2. The terrorists, who created the need for checkpoints and high security.

3. The idiots in the car, who did not stop at the checkpoint.

The people I don't blame? The soldiers who were doing their job and whose reasonable actions resulted in an unfortunate outcome as a result of the aforementioned people.

1. Blame Saddam? He's been in U.S. custody for how many years now?

2. The "terrorists"? How about calling them what they are.....Iraqi people fighting against a hostile invasion of their country. A clergyman I know says he finds it amusing that we speak of killing "insurgents"....it sounds a lot better than saying men, women, and children.

3. The "idiots" in the car? I can't begin to count the number of normally cautious men I know who have run stop signs and red lights when rushing pregnant women to the hospital.

Instead of placing "blame", perhaps we should ask a question that directly affects our soldiers: How many more "insurgents" did we create today? How many non-violent Iraqis have now joined the "cause" against the invaders?
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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eye95
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kyyankgrrl,May 31 2006
10:07 PM
eye95,May 31 2006
10:51 PM
I blame 3 people/groups:

1.  Saddam, who created the situation in the first place.  BTW, a LOT fewer people are dying now that he is gone.

2.  The terrorists, who created the need for checkpoints and high security.

3.  The idiots in the car, who did not stop at the checkpoint.

The people I don't blame?  The soldiers who were doing their job and whose reasonable actions resulted in an unfortunate outcome as a result of the aforementioned people.

1. Blame Saddam? He's been in U.S. custody for how many years now?

2. The "terrorists"? How about calling them what they are.....Iraqi people fighting against a hostile invasion of their country. A clergyman I know says he finds it amusing that we speak of killing "insurgents"....it sounds a lot better than saying men, women, and children.

3. The "idiots" in the car? I can't begin to count the number of normally cautious men I know who have run stop signs and red lights when rushing pregnant women to the hospital.

Instead of placing "blame", perhaps we should ask a question that directly affects our soldiers: How many more "insurgents" did we create today? How many non-violent Iraqis have now joined the "cause" against the invaders?

1. Careful reading of this point reveals that I blamed Saddam for his earlier actions. So, your refutation is pointless.

2. "Terrorists" is the correct word. Why does everyone shy away from calling them what they are? They target innocent civilians. That makes them terrorists. I wish everyone would have the guts to call them what they are.

3. I can't believe you compared running a checkpoint guarded by armed soldiers in a war zone with the relative triviality of running a red light. That argument is completely bankrupt. Running such a checkpoint--even with a pregnant woman in the car, no, especially with a pregnant woman in the car--is just plain stupid.
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kyyankgrrl
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I would be curious to see how you would react if the U.S. was invaded by hostile forces under false pretenses. I wonder how you would feel if these same hostile forces entrenched themselves in our country with no plans on leaving, determined to show us what type of government we "really" want and what type of culture we "really" need and will appreciate. And if unarmed citizens are killed along the way.....too bad.

See, crazy that I am, that's how I look at things in life.....I put myself in the other person's shoes.

And if I was a Muslim Iraqi citizen, invaded by a country that represents everything I was brought up to believe is immoral and wrong....I can assure you I would be part of the resistance.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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eye95
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No country was invaded under false pretenses, so I stopped reading your post after that sentence.
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kyyankgrrl
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Show me the WMDs. Otherwise, the U.S. invaded Iraq based on lies, plain and simple. Unless you subscribe to the most obvious explanation for this war.....which is that Bush was determined to invade Iraq and oust Saddam, no matter what.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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eye95
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Saddam had WMD. Absolute fact. He used them on the Kurds. The best intelligence available said Saddam still had WMD just prior to the war. All he had to do was allow complete access to inspectors and we wouldn't have gone in. Later, all he had to do was step down and we wouldn't have gone in. As of right now, no one can say either way whether or not he had WMD at the time we went in. There is evidence both ways, but no absolute proof.

So, when you use hyperbole like "lies" and "false pretenses," the rest of the point you try to make is either not read, not paid any attention, or not thought to be credible at all.

I avoid hyperbole like the plague. I suggest you do likewise if you want me to even look at what you have to say.

Disclaimer: None of the above is an acceptance of the incorrect premise that we went in solely becauser Saddam had WMD. As I have gone to great lengths before to explain, the WMD argument is a strawman that was created prior to the war to be used as an argument against the war in the fortunate eventuality (fortunate for anti-war folks) that the WMD were not found. If you read up on ALL the speeches on why we needed to go in (and not just a select few) and read the actual authorization from Congress (particularly all the "whereases"), it is obvious that the possession of the WMD was not THE reason for going in.
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kyyankgrrl
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The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror. Eleven years ago, as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was required to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, to cease all development of such weapons, and to stop all support for terrorist groups. The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.

Members of the Congress of both political parties, and members of the United Nations Security Council, agree that Saddam Hussein is a threat to peace and must disarm. We agree that the Iraqi dictator must not be permitted to threaten America and the world with horrible poisons and diseases and gases and atomic weapons. Since we all agree on this goal, the issues is : how can we best achieve it?

First, some ask why Iraq is different from other countries or regimes that also have terrible weapons. While there are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone -- because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq's weapons of mass destruction are controlled by a murderous tyrant who has already used chemical weapons to kill thousands of people. This same tyrant has tried to dominate the Middle East, has invaded and brutally occupied a small neighbor, has struck other nations without warning, and holds an unrelenting hostility toward the United States.

Some ask how urgent this danger is to America and the world. The danger is already significant, and it only grows worse with time. If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today -- and we do -- does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20021007-8.html

- excerpts from a speech given by George W. Bush, Oct. 7, 2002. He is adamant that Iraq possesses WMDs. Stop pretending WMDs were a red herring used to get to the "real" problem....whatever you think that is.


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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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eye95
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Excellent start. Even your excerpt hints at the total picture and does not focus solely on the WMD. However, I still suggest you look at a lot more of the speeches and releases on the topic. Most especially, look at the authorization for the use of force as passed by Congress.

I would categorically say we did not go in just because of any certainty that Saddam had WMD. When you let go of that misimpression, things will make more sense.
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