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Feminists are best!
Topic Started: Oct 18 2007, 11:49 AM (875 Views)
kyyankgrrl
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Feminist & Proud
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MoRivera,Oct 19 2007
03:39 PM
kyyankgrrl,Oct 19 2007
09:26 AM
MoRivera,Oct 19 2007
10:06 AM
kyyankgrrl,Oct 19 2007
02:50 AM
Your post made me laugh, Mo. Do you also advocate the occasional beating to keep a woman in her "place"?

One of my long-held theories is that there are scant few differences between the institution of marriage and the institution of slavery. Re-read your post - only insert "whites" where you refer to men, and "blacks" where you refer to women. Keep them in their place, indeed.

and my point stands. The only ones making such a huge deal out of this are women. There is this "feminism" problem because the women choose to make it a problem. Men have their role, women have theirs. Thats all there is too it. If you're going to complain about a womans job being in the kitchen, why can't I complain about the "given" that men are to be up at 5 am in the morning so they can work themselves to death to earn money for the family? We have roles in life. This competition of who's better than who is no good, and there is no doubt that the feminism revolution has made the United States a morally corrupt country. It is shameful.

You know Mo, slaves had their place, and masters had their place. And the prevailing wisdom - at least among the masters - was that everyone was happy. They even used the Bible to justify their belief that this was just how life was meant to be.

They were wrong.

and again, the only people who make feminism claims are the ones who are worried about slavery. Womens cry of "feminism" is like a mass murderer saying he doesn't like to kill. I'm not calling women slaves.

Colossians 3:18: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

That is not saying "wives, you are your husbands slaves!" I was listening to a Protestant Radio Station here in CT (I'm not Protestant, but I often listen to it in the car) and they brought up how so many women misinterpret this verse. God has made man in his image. He has placed people in charge of his earth. Men have a job to do, and women have a job to do. Your "new age" Christian outlook is a very dangerous thing. Feminism has caused millions of babies to be murdered each year. "My body, my choice" is a popular voice among the group. Before you know it, women are going to be wondering if they're better than God himself.

Mo's worst nightmare: That God IS a woman.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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kyyankgrrl
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Jayhawk Bill,Oct 19 2007
04:39 PM
kyyankgrrl,Oct 19 2007
11:59 AM
Article published April 23, 2007:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A dramatic pay gap emerges between women and men in America the year after they graduate from college and widens over the ensuing decade, according to research released on Monday.

One year out of college, women working full time earn 80 percent of what men earn, according to the study by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, based in Washington D.C.

Ten years later, women earn 69 percent as much as men earn, it said.

Even as the study accounted for such factors as the number of hours worked, occupations or parenthood, the gap persisted, researchers said.


Dear Miss Foaming-at-the-Mouth-Marriage-Loathing Feminist,*

Thanks for the link to the Reuters article. The actual study can be found at:

http://www.aauw.org/research/upload/behindPayGap.pdf

The quote "Even as the study accounted for such factors as the number of hours worked, occupations or parenthood, the gap persisted, researchers said," is explicitly incorrect.

The pay gaps of "80% what men earn" and "69% what men earn" are based upon median weekly earnings across all jobs. Those figures in no way hold constant once one accounts for number of hours worked, occupations or parenthood. From the complete study, page 18:

Quote:
 
The regressions for earnings one year after college
indicate that when all variables are included, about onequarter
of the pay gap is attributable to gender. That is,
after controlling for all the factors known to affect earnings,
college-educated women earn about 5 percent less than
college-educated men earn.


But unattributed as being of any quantifiable impact (see page 42 for the full regression analysis results) is this highly-relevant table:

Quote:
 
Degree-granting institution selectivity

Very selective Women 28% Men 35%
Moderately selective Women 59% Men 54%
Minimally selective Women 8% Men 7%
Open admission Women 5% Men 4%


The difference between your study and the one I cited regarding initial pay gap is 3%, 95% versus 98%. The researchers neglected to include quality of undergraduate institute as an independent variable. We know that there's a 5-4 ratio of men to women earning degrees from very selective institutions in their sample set. We also know that Ivy League graduates make more than Beerchug State U graduates. The unexplained gap is only 3%...I think that we may have found the difference between the two studies.

If choices regarding profession and current hours of work are removed, after a decade the pay of women with respect to men is not 69%, but 88%:

Quote:
 
Ten years after graduation, the portion of the gender pay
gap that remains unexplained increases from 5 percent to
12 percent.


Why could that be? Well, one possible reason is that the women haven't worked as hard as the men to earn raises and promotions.

Check Figure 9 on page 23. While the information is presented graphically, roughly half of men but roughly two-thirds of women reported working 40 or fewer hours per week in their full-time job. Roughly twice as many men as women worked fifty or more hours each week. If you're the boss, and you're handing out raises and promotions, who are you going to reward, all else equal?

It seems self-evident, but, astonishingly, hours worked per week wasn't an independent variable in the analysis for those a decade into the work force. Whether or not the individuals worked part-time in the last five years--not the first five years--was counted, but there was no consideration of extra hours worked by full-time employees...and we know that factor to be significantly different for men and women.

Miss Foaming-at-the-Mouth-Marriage-Loathing Feminist,* you should really check the actual studies, not the news articles, before citing them. The article took words out of context, and the study itself was flawed.

It appears that I was right all along. :D




* Other moderators: Please note that kyyankgrrl has personally used "Foaming at the mouth" referring to me in the recently-locked Pedroia thread, specifically indicating afterwards that she doesn't consider the post to be a personal attack. Furthermore, she is on record earlier in this thread as being, by her own admission, a marriage-loathing feminist. Accordingly, I intend to use this nickname for her in the future.

And in all your self-serving "research", you fail to address the WHYs. Why are women in the workforce also expected to be the primary caretakers in the home - the ones who take care of elderly parents and take off work to tend to sick children? These factors contribute significantly to "women not working as hard or long" as men. You are fond of research - how about you see how many Fortune 500 CEOs are women and how many are men. The decision-making, power, and vast wealth is STILL concentrated disproportionately in the hands of white males.

As for "nicknames" - I make no apologies for being a feminist. Being a feminist means I wake up every morning and the word "Welcome" is not on my forehead - I'm no one's doormat. I do what I want, when I want, where I want, how I want. Marriage strips women of every single one of those freedoms - not something I aspire to. But I wish those well who pursue that path. Some people are happiest with a tight leash - I'm just not one of them.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Jayhawk Bill
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kyyankgrrl,Oct 19 2007
07:46 PM
And in all your self-serving "research", you fail to address the WHYs. Why are women in the workforce also expected to be the primary caretakers in the home - the ones who take care of elderly parents and take off work to tend to sick children? These factors contribute significantly to "women not working as hard or long" as men. You are fond of research - how about you see how many Fortune 500 CEOs are women and how many are men.

Wah. :P

Face it, Miss Foaming-at-the-Mouth-Marriage-Loathing Feminist, your post was wrong. I suggest that you suck it up and stop...well, for want of a better word, bitching.

Quote:
 
The decision-making, power, and vast wealth is STILL concentrated disproportionately in the hands of white males.


Yeah, except that you might be wrong again, at least according to this, um, feminist site:

Helen LaKelly Hunt
 

It is now widely reported that 51 percent of all assets in the United States are held in the names of women. And the shift of wealth into women's hands will continue; in some cases from family sources, and in more and more cases from wealth of their own creation. What this trend portends for the future is a source of great hope and inspiration.


http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn...context/archive

Quote:
 
As for "nicknames" - I make no apologies for being a feminist. Being a feminist means I wake up every morning and the word "Welcome" is not on my forehead - I'm no one's doormat. I do what I want, when I want, where I want, how I want. Marriage strips women of every single one of those freedoms - not something I aspire to. But I wish those well who pursue that path. Some people are happiest with a tight leash - I'm just not one of them.


Miss Foaming-at-the-Mouth-Marriage-Loathing Feminist, there are any number of men who value a woman as a partner, not as a chattel. Likewise, there are women who value companions with independence such as your own.

If you are happier alone, I understand and respect your choice, but don't sell short the value of partnership as one ages. Furthermore, raising children is vastly more challenging without a partner, and our world needs a new generation populated with women who possess your determination.

The world might even find a role for men with your determination...who knows? *idunno* ;)
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MoRivera
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nath87,Oct 19 2007
04:06 PM
Mo .... ever think of how it would be like if you were a girl? a sixteen year old girl who made a mistake and got herself pregnent and has no clue what she is going to do ? imagine if you were her what would YOU would do....

I'd seek adoption. Catholics are not anti-choice. We are just against the wrong choices. Abortion is a wrong choice.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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