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Wives, be submissive to your husbands; EWTN Answer
Topic Started: Nov 8 2007, 11:40 PM (1,304 Views)
MoRivera
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The following is from EWTN-Global Catholic Network

St. Paul wrote to the Ephesians:

5:22 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.

5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

5:24 As the Church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.

5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,

5:27 that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

5:28 Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

5:29 For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,

5:30 because we are members of his body.

5:31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

5:32 This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;

5:33 however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she
respects her husband.
_______________________________
One of the many ways in which we are called to imitate God is found within Christian marriage. Specifically, Christian marriage is to be modeled upon the relationship of Christ and the Church, as Groom and Bride. The roots of this are to be found in the Old Testament, in which Israel was called to be the faithful wife and God the Husband. In New Testament times, the New Israel which is the Church is the covenant partner of Christ. As Christ poured out His life in a sacrificial offering for the Church, so the husband is to offer his life in sacrificial ways for his wife. And as the Church submits to Christ so the Christian wife is called to submit in appropriate ways to her husband. This is not a license to abuse within a marriage or misuse of this mutual responsibility and so long as the model is that of Christ and the Church, the marriage should be strengthened by this reciprocity of individual roles. This model is not popular in modern secular society, yet never have marriages and families been so damaged and broken as in the present times, having followed the standards of the world. If Christian couples truly want to model Christ and invite Him into their marriage, it would seem that St. Paul has something to say on this matter.

As to specifics, I think it appropriate that the wife provides input but in matters related to the marriage, family and household, the husband ordinarily would have the final authority.

Father Echert
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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kyyankgrrl
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Which explains why I have no desire or intention on ever becoming a "wife".

Also, how does the Catholic church justify denying priests and nuns the right to "imitate God" in "Christian marriage"?
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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nath87
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I love how man created religion to try and undermine women.
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kyyankgrrl
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nath87,Nov 9 2007
05:02 PM
I love how man created religion to try and undermine women.

Slave owners also used Biblical verses to justify slavery. All oppressors are the same. :rolleyes:
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Element
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Ah, a little part of religion i agree with.
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kyyankgrrl
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Element,Nov 9 2007
05:56 PM
Ah, a little part of religion i agree with.

Too bad, any wife of yours is going to totally own you.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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win2day
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Cntrl+ P= and Look what I found honey!!!!!!!!
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jaysdude09,Jan 13 2009
05:32 PM
I'm so poor I use my mouth to clean up the mess I make when I masturbate.


YANKEES DYNASTY VIDEO
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Rockshu
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I enjoy being submissive to women.

Seriously. If you think you enjoy sex now, tell your woman to take complete control over you. I promise you it will be the best sex both of you have ever had. Guaranteed.
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MoRivera
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kyyankgrrl,Nov 9 2007
05:36 PM
Slave owners also used Biblical verses to justify slavery. All oppressors are the same. :rolleyes:

are you pro-slavery? Back then, slaves weren't considered people, similar to what you feel about unborn children.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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kyyankgrrl
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MoRivera,Nov 9 2007
08:59 PM
are you pro-slavery? Back then, slaves weren't considered people, similar to what you feel about unborn children.

Nope, I'm not pro-slavery. Just pointing out how the Bible is frequently used by MEN to oppress others.

And no, an embryo is NOT a person. It is a cluster of parasitic cells feeding off a woman's body. Until it becomes independent of that woman's body, it has ZERO rights.
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Caulfield
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Can a fetus in the first two trimesters breathe on its own?

No. Done deal.

If that counts as a person, then I'm cutting off my hand and declaring it a separate living person as well.
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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Caulfield,Nov 10 2007
11:23 AM
Can a fetus in the first two trimesters breathe on its own?

No. Done deal.

If that counts as a person, then I'm cutting off my hand and declaring it a separate living person as well.

OK...a very pragmatic approach, but it's rational, if perhaps cold-hearted.

FatMMLF
 
And no, an embryo is NOT a person. It is a cluster of parasitic cells feeding off a woman's body. Until it becomes independent of that woman's body, it has ZERO rights.


But here we have two significant differences:

1) Interestingly, FatMMLF is referring to fetuses as embryos until birth, despite viability in the final trimester, and

2) She's clearly supporting the "right" of women to have doctors suck the brain from their unborn fetuses to ensure their stillbirth, thereby freeing the women of responsibility from their errors in judgment even at the cost of a soul capable of independent life save for its status as captive within a womb.

I'd be interested in what FatMMLF would think of a "male abortion," a law that would preserve the rights of men either to extinguish the life of unborn children they conceived or, more equitably, simply to allow them to disown any obligation to such children within nine months of their knowledge of the children's existence, but she's given her word that she'll never again respond to my posts. :P

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MoRivera
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kyyankgrrl,Nov 10 2007
01:54 AM
And no, an embryo is NOT a person. It is a cluster of parasitic cells feeding off a woman's body. Until it becomes independent of that woman's body, it has ZERO rights.

why? Did you know that when a woman is pregnant, these "cluster of cells" are the only part in the womans body who have different DNA than their mother. Clearly a separate being.

Since you claim to be religious, why not obey "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you". Murder.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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mpic92
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MoRivera,Nov 10 2007
02:12 PM
why? Did you know that when a woman is pregnant, these "cluster of cells" are the only part in the womans body who have different DNA than their mother. Clearly a separate being.

Since you claim to be religious, why not obey "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you". Murder.

It's not a person though. I may be a different "being" but it's not a person, even if it may eventually contribute to one.

Murder? Umm ok. You know, I stepped on a spider the other day and killed it by accident; I'm a bloody murderer.
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MoRivera
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mpic92,Nov 10 2007
02:46 PM
MoRivera,Nov 10 2007
02:12 PM
why? Did you know that when a woman is pregnant, these "cluster of cells" are the only part in the womans body who have different DNA than their mother. Clearly a separate being.

Since you claim to be religious, why not obey "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you". Murder.

It's not a person though. I may be a different "being" but it's not a person, even if it may eventually contribute to one.

Murder? Umm ok. You know, I stepped on a spider the other day and killed it by accident; I'm a bloody murderer.

what if Mary chose to abort Jesus?

A man, rather upset with God, prayed to him one night. "Lord," the man said, "why have you allowed lethal diseases such as cancer to continue to exist? My mother died because of this awful illness"

The Lord then replied to the man, "I have created many people with the ability to cure cancer, AIDS, and countless other illnesses. Your people have aborted them."
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Rockshu
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MoRivera,Nov 10 2007
10:05 PM
mpic92,Nov 10 2007
02:46 PM
MoRivera,Nov 10 2007
02:12 PM
why? Did you know that when a woman is pregnant, these "cluster of cells" are the only part in the womans body who have different DNA than their mother. Clearly a separate being.

Since you claim to be religious, why not obey "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you". Murder.

It's not a person though. I may be a different "being" but it's not a person, even if it may eventually contribute to one.

Murder? Umm ok. You know, I stepped on a spider the other day and killed it by accident; I'm a bloody murderer.

what if Mary chose to abort Jesus?

A man, rather upset with God, prayed to him one night. "Lord," the man said, "why have you allowed lethal diseases such as cancer to continue to exist? My mother died because of this awful illness"

The Lord then replied to the man, "I have created many people with the ability to cure cancer, AIDS, and countless other illnesses. Your people have aborted them."

Then we'd have a whole lot fewer insane fucks like you on this earth. Wouldn't have been a bad idea if you ask me.
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MoRivera
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no Jesus, no salvation for any of us
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Element
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Meet me in hell.
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Rockshu
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Element,Nov 11 2007
12:39 AM
Meet me in hell.

Beer and MNF. Lets roll.
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hankaaron44
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How is abortion any different from what the Nazis did? Adolf Hitler and gang attempted to get rid of everyone and everything that was not perfect in their eyes. Who were they to choose what was perfect and what wasn't?

As if we didn't learn a single thing from WWII, there is this ridiculous notion of abortion. Who is anyone to say that a cluster of parasitic cells is not a living organism? How is terminating the growth of these cells any different than going to a random zoo with a .45 revolver and shooting down any animals you don't like? What gives you that right? If all anyone does is say "oh I'm better than you" or "because I am" or "because I said so" as an excuse for dehumanizing someone (including an unborn baby) or irrationally claiming any organism to be less than what it is.

Today, we live in a sick, sick society. People, especially in North America think that they can just do whatever they want and get away with it like it ain't nothing' because they're too cool or because they're too sexy. Doctors who perform abortions treat the fetuses (and I hate that word) as nothing more than organic waste. When they pull out the head of the fetus, they don't say "here's the head." They yank it out of there and blankly say "here's number one" as if they don't have any idea what they're doing - and they don't for whatever reason.

I don't for a second think anyone here has a life that is worth more than someone elses. This is disgusting, and we're going off topic, but I just have to let my anger out.
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