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| Wives, be submissive to your husbands; EWTN Answer | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 8 2007, 11:40 PM (1,307 Views) | |
| T-O | Nov 12 2007, 01:41 PM Post #41 |
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Rock.. Pls give me ONE instance where I have quoted bible principles and didnt apply it to bible context making me a hypocrite as you mentioned. Yes, its true, there are many religious people who do this. MANY... And led by the clergy of their religions actually because they have not been teaching the truth in the first place. But you have seen a number of my posts. Please give me one case where I did this. No, this doesnt make me a saint by any means. It simply means we have gone the extra miles to find out what the bible really does teach. Thanks |
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| T-O | Nov 12 2007, 01:45 PM Post #42 |
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Just a quick one here Mo. About the Trinity. Looking at headship as we have been. The man is the head of the woman.. 2 persons. Christ is the head of the man.. 2 persons Jehovah God is the head of Christ. 2 persons. No trinity here. If God is the head over Christ, in what way can they be equal if the trinity doctrine is true? More later about abortion which I am in complete agreement with you on as it is a biblical requirement to observe the sanctity of life. |
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| T-O | Nov 12 2007, 05:52 PM Post #43 |
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Here are some points about abortion. A person could spend all day quoting various medical authorities on this issue. Many of these learned men/women support abortion claiming there is no real human life there until such and such a period of time has elapsed. (This hasnt stopped abortions at times, as there have been cases of 7 month pregnancies being terminated for the only reason that the child was not wanted). Sort of makes the skin crawl, or does it? You know who you are... Many others will say that there is life there right from the start. Always keep in mind the words of the Apostle Paul, when one thinks about how absolute man’s opinions can be. 1 Corinthians 3:19,20… “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile”. I do have a thought about whether or not there is life there at the start or does it begin later on? Well here is my personal opinion which probably isn’t worth any more than all the rest who have put their opinions out. I feel that there is life there from the very beginning. Mostly because this is correct according to God’s word, but from a logical standpoint alone, how can life start from a lifeless matter? In other words, the embryo in itself is not a life form, but as it becomes a fetus it suddenly becomes a life form? I think not. That has a ring of evolutionism to me. In other words, a piece of dead slime got washed up on the shore and became a life form. Just as illogical. No, life begins at conception. Life cannot come from lifeless matter. Did you know that the single cell that becomes fertilized, soon thereafter begins to divide into other cells that become the embryo and eventually the fetus. This is due to the fact that these cells are living human organisms. A single living cell is sometimes referred to as being a “simple” form of life. But a one-celled animal can catch food, digest it, get rid of wastes, build a house for itself and engage in sexual activity. Each cell of the human body has been likened to a walled city, with a central government to maintain order, a power plant to generate energy, factories to produce proteins, a complex transportation system, and guards to regulate what is permitted to enter. And a single human body is made up of as many as 100 trillion cells. How appropriate the words of Psalm 104:24: “How many your works are, O Jehovah! All of them in wisdom you have made”! And best of all, the single cell that is fertilized has all these characteristics and abilities. Does this sound to anyone like a lifeless form of matter?? All things being said, here is how Jehovah views life and how it starts. King David wrote at Psalm 139: 14-16… I shall laud you because in a fear inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, As my soul is very well aware. My bones were not hidden from you When I was made in secret, When I was woven in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were down in writing. So David recognized that God even knew what was happening in the earliest stage of life, in the embryo. There are also many examples in the bible of respect for human life, even to the point of a life for a life, such as in the case of a quarrel going on between two men, and if they should strike a pregnant woman and either the woman or the unborn baby died, then the perpetrator would lose his life as well. Exodus 21: 22 & 23. The obvious conclusion, all things considered, is that the taking of an embryo or fetus and destroying it is killing a human life. I might suggest that those of you who think abortion is just fine, you should read the numerous accounts of what actually happens many times as these killings are performed, and how some doctors and nurses have terrible mental problems from some of these events. Now, to qualify one point. If the womans life is definitely in danger because of the pregnancy, then it is a decision that one must make according to their conscience. Something to think seriously on since there have been many documented cases where a doctor has proclaimed the womans life to be in danger, but some have opted to go through with the pregnancy and now have a fine boy or girl and a healthy mother. Pro-choice? Slides off the tongue pretty easily doesn’t it? But it implies much. |
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| MoRivera | Nov 12 2007, 06:09 PM Post #44 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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you just view this issue differently than me. I can respect your beliefs, and I hope you honor mine. God is the creator. The first person we read about in the Holy Bible. He then sends his Son Jesus, who is 100% human, yet never once separated from God. Jesus, mentioned 2nd, is the 2nd person in the Holy Bible. The third person would be the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus sends to bless his disciples. The Holy Spirit is absolutely equal to Jesus as well as God. One is not greater than the other. Although we can distinguish between the three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) they are all one being and are equal. I'm sure your familiar with God telling Moses "I AM that I AM. When Pharaoh asks who sent you, tell him 'I AM has sent me'" I AM is the blessed name God has given himself. We see great controversy in the New Testament when Jesus Christ refers to himself as I AM. This is when he refers to himself as being greater than and knowing of Abraham. The crowd said "You haven't seen Abraham! You're not even 50 years old!" Jesus responded with "I tell you the truth. Before Abraham was even born, I AM" The people began to throw rocks at him, as "I AM" was the name of God. It was at that moment, Jesus declared himself to be God. By the way, outstanding post above on abortion. Keep it up
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| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| kyyankgrrl | Nov 12 2007, 06:58 PM Post #45 |
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Feminist & Proud
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It is sad when people think their personal religious views should be the law of the land, applying to all people, regardless of their beliefs. In all your glorification of a cluster of parasitic cells, not once do you mention the "host" - the woman whose existence is totally irrelevant, in your eyes. What she wants, what she needs, what is right for her life - none of that matters. She could be a scared 14 year old. She could be a 25 year old rape victim. She could be a 45 year old homeless crack head who sells her body. In your eyes, all these females are the same and their sole value in this world is their reproductive ability. Do you advocate euthanizing women over the age of 55 or 60, when they are no longer able to have children? If you don't, why not? Surely you can't see the purpose of keeping women around on this planet if they're not continuously pregnant. In an earlier post, Hankaaron mentioned the practices of the Nazi party in Germany. I can't think of anything more Hitler-ian than de-valuing women's lives and enforced childbearing. |
![]() Sig by Detroittigerfan28 In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author) Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr. | |
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| T-O | Nov 12 2007, 08:15 PM Post #46 |
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Hey there KY.. I am assuming that your post was directed at me. Pardon me if not. Your quote.. “It is sad when people think their personal religious views should be the law of the land, applying to all people, regardless of their beliefs”. Reply… When have I ever said that my personal religious beliefs should be the law of the land? As a matter of fact, many times I have said that this is not MY ideas, but it is from God’s word, the bible. If God’s word bothers anyone, that is a problem that they have to deal with. Your quote… In all your glorification of a cluster of parasitic cells, not once do you mention the "host" - the woman whose existence is totally irrelevant, in your eyes. What she wants, what she needs, what is right for her life - none of that matters. Reply.. Sorry but I thought we were discussing the right or lack of the right, to kill unborn babies. Your quote.. She could be a scared 14 year old, She could be a 25 year old rape victim, she could be a 45 year old homeless crack head who sells her body. In your eyes, all these females are the same and their sole value in this world is their reproductive ability. Reply.. Now you know that is not what I think at all, that their sole value in this world is to bear babies. Women have an honorable and very respected place in this world, highly regarded. A man could not function well without a woman. That is why Jehovah gave Adam a “helper”. She is not a slave, to be kicked around and bedded down at our whim and fancy. Unfortunately too many men have thought this to be the case down through the centuries and today, but this does not lessen the biblical principle of the place that a woman holds in Gods eyes, and in the eyes of a true Christian man. At the same time, all of us, men and women, have had to make choices with respect to our actions. These ones you mentioned, other than the rape victims perhaps, obviously made some very bad decisions somewhere along the way. We must take the responsibility that goes along with the freedom we had of making those choices that got us into a mess. If a man wants to fool around with all the women he can get, that is his choice, and if he gets AIDS, or a dose, or shot by a jealous husband, then that is a choice he freely made and has to pay the piper. Know what I mean? If a woman is raped, and becomes pregnant, which by the way happens way less frequently than some people may think, then it still is not an excuse to kill the baby. Your quote.. Do you advocate euthanizing women over the age of 55 or 60, when they are no longer able to have children? If you don't, why not? Surely you can't see the purpose of keeping women around on this planet if they're not continuously pregnant. Reply.. Don’t be silly. I’ll forget that you said that. Your quote.. In an earlier post, Hankaaron mentioned the practices of the Nazi party in Germany. I can't think of anything more Hitler-ian than de-valuing women's lives and enforced childbearing. Reply.. Neither can I. |
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| MoRivera | Nov 12 2007, 08:28 PM Post #47 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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you use these examples to justify murdering innocent children. As I said, its not a matter of political or religious views, yet a matter of violence and an act of murder. Abortion does not have to be a religious view. One could be an atheist and see the evils involved in this horrific act. I am a firm supporter that Catholics who are 'pro-choice' should not receive Holy Communion. Reason being, this is an extreme moral sin in which one is not prepared to receive Christ. I hope the Bishop puts forth this law. |
| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| nath87 | Nov 12 2007, 08:48 PM Post #48 |
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DHB Legend
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The bible is a fictional story, it pretty much has as much truth to it as scientology. It is meant to surpress and control the people so that the few in power can keep everyone on a tight rope. It is meant to make sure that those people in power can be safeguarded by their insecurities in the world, and not be threatened by change. Therefor every argument that you make with reference to the bible has no reliability in it and everything that you say or do to discrimate against others is not justified. |
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| MoRivera | Nov 12 2007, 08:58 PM Post #49 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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this kinds of posts should not be tolerated here. I'd like to ask administration to take action against this. |
| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| nath87 | Nov 12 2007, 09:02 PM Post #50 |
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DHB Legend
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I do have the right to my own opinion, as do you. I'm just stating what I see as facts, and so are you. We do have different opinions. That's why we debate on the board. If you don't like what I have to say about certain things you can argue about it with me on the message board. It's really a simple concept... unless you do not have anything to come back and justify your posts... |
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| MoRivera | Nov 12 2007, 09:10 PM Post #51 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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then how can you prove to me that the Bible is fake? |
| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| Jayhawk Bill | Nov 12 2007, 09:13 PM Post #52 |
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Really old guy
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Concur. It is equally sad when individuals do not respect the faiths of others, particularly when those faiths are not ephemeral cults but rather world religions that have withstood the challenges and scrutiny of centuries of critics. Our Western civilization is not built upon the ethics of atheists and agnostics; it is built upon the Judeo-Christian ethic.
In all of your insulting verbiage, not once do you mention the father, who seems totally irrelevant in your eyes. What he wants, what he needs, what is right for his life: none of that matters. He could be a scared 17 year old seduced by an older woman. He could be a lower-class young adult, once determined to make it on his own but now knowing that the only occupation that could pay the child support is selling illegal drugs. He could be a lower-middle class guy seemingly destined for the Ivy League through superhuman work and extraordinary talent, whose girlfriend got him to ejaculate outside her vagina and then saved the sperm to impregnate herself. These young men face the same doubts, questions and fears as young women pregnant in difficult circumstances. Our laws leave them unprotected, their lives irrevocably ruined.
If you oppose enforced parenting, support the rights of men to abandon their offspring conceived out of wedlock. Go ahead, do it. It's the moral equivalent of your argument: in fact, it's less, because it does not involve the necessity of destroying the life of a fetus. But I can think of something more Hitlerian than enforced childbearing: extinguishing souls powerless to resist. Boys and men can't legally do that in the United States. Girls and women can and do. |
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| mpic92 | Nov 12 2007, 09:22 PM Post #53 |
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Well I agree with you entirely. Mo, why shouldn't this be tolerated here? It may be offending what you believe, but couldn't people like me or nath say the same? Try to defend your idea by stating your argument, if you have one. |
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| nath87 | Nov 12 2007, 09:30 PM Post #54 |
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DHB Legend
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It was written by man, and the stories that were made throughout the years. Also, many historiens in the age of Jesus never even mentioned him in their books in that age. Why? because he did not exist? I'm not denying his existance, but there just is something fishy about it. Why would the historiens not include Jesus in their writings when they were experiencing it in that age? The bible and the catholic religion has some amazing resemblences to the egyption religion. You can trace worshiping the "son of the lord" all the way back to the early days where there were cavemen. They were actually worshipping the ACTUAL sun. and during the evening there were twelve stars that were distinguisable in the evening. They were reffered to as the twelve disciples back in the early ages of humans on earth. So naturally it would be easy to revolve a story such as the bible about it. Many other religions have the same sort of philosophy... it's quite interesting actually. Many of their "saviours" were born December 25th. That is the day when the sun rose 1 degree at the lowest peek on december 22nd of every year heating the earth and that's when it got the coldest. That is also the reason why there are three days of resurrection. It is not celebrated until the equinox in easter for a few reasons (but I can't remember off hand). Jesus was not personified until a few houndred years after he was "born". He was created by the roman government for society to have something to worship with, and they created the devil because it is said society can not prevail without having an ennemy. Jesus actually represents the new age, he was born right after the ohter age was finished. The references to the end of the "world" in the bible is actually a mistranslation. "world" actually means "age". So they are actually talking about the end of the age of Jesus. Not that there will actually be an end to the world. So I guess you can really say that the bible is full of misinterpretations and un correct translations. This is why I choose not to beleive in the bible and it is why I beleive the bible is nothing more than a compilation of stories that were made at the beginning of the new age. |
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| MoRivera | Nov 12 2007, 09:57 PM Post #55 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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The Bible was scripted by man, written by God. Second, tell me what year it is, and what that is so |
| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| mpic92 | Nov 12 2007, 10:01 PM Post #56 |
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Can you be more specific on that? How do you know God wrote it? |
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| MoRivera | Nov 12 2007, 10:12 PM Post #57 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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we know that God has spoken through the prophets. Also, when Jesus came to earth, he "reiterated" things that were said in the Old Testament. Infact, there are many references in the Old Testament who claim that someone of Jesus' stature will one day come to this earth. |
| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| hankaaron44 | Nov 13 2007, 12:34 AM Post #58 |
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Canada
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How is that anymore different than mudering those not of the "supreme race?" Why does every topic turn into a question of the validity of the Bible of the existence of a God? |
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| Element | Nov 13 2007, 01:15 AM Post #59 |
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The Original
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Just because we go by those years, have 'in god we trust' on our coins (which is absolute bullshit), and say 'under god' in the pledge of allegiance (also bullshit) doesn't make god's existence real..... |
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| T-O | Nov 13 2007, 01:53 AM Post #60 |
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Nath.. it is late here and I will respond to your post more fully later, but lets set the record straight on this first issue that you are confused about. The actual existence of Jesus. Your quote… Also, many historiens in the age of Jesus never even mentioned him in their books in that age. Why? because he did not exist? I'm not denying his existance, but there just is something fishy about it. Why would the historiens not include Jesus in their writings when they were experiencing it in that age? Reply.. Here is a bit of evidence contrary to what you state. The Bible itself is the principal evidence that Jesus Christ is a historical person. The record in the Gospels is not a vague narrative of events at some unspecified time and in an unnamed location. It clearly states time and place in great detail. For an example, see Luke 3:1, 2, 21-23. The first-century Jewish historian Josephus referred to the stoning of “James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ.” (The Jewish Antiquities, Josephus, Book XX, sec. 200) A direct and very favorable reference to Jesus, found in Book XVIII, sections 63, 64, has been challenged by some who claim that it must have been either added later or embellished by Christians; but it is acknowledged that the vocabulary and the style are basically those of Josephus, and the passage is found in all available manuscripts. Tacitus, a Roman historian who lived during the latter part of the first century C.E., wrote: “Christus [Latin for “Christ”], from whom the name [Christian] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus.”—The Complete Works of Tacitus (New York, 1942), “The Annals,” Book 15, par. 44. With reference to early non-Christian historical references to Jesus, The New Encyclopædia Britannica states: “These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries.”—(1976), Macropædia, Vol. 10, p. 145. So lets put that question to rest shall we? More later.. |
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7:51 PM Jul 10