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| Wives, be submissive to your husbands; EWTN Answer | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 8 2007, 11:40 PM (1,305 Views) | |
| bostonfanatic87 | Nov 13 2007, 01:29 PM Post #61 |
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Look, some people believe it, some people don't. Theres no reason to bicker and argue. Nath, you act like you're standing up against people trying to push their beliefs upon you, but are you not doing the same to them? Live and let live. |
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| nath87 | Nov 13 2007, 04:39 PM Post #62 |
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DHB Legend
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I am not trying to push my beleifs on anyone. I am just simply trying to educate people about the facts. I am not saying that anywone is a bad person for following a religion. I just want people to get to know the facts. plain and simple... |
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| MoRivera | Nov 13 2007, 04:50 PM Post #63 |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
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you haven't shown me any facts yet. All you have done is state the Bible is a book of fairy tales. |
| Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well. | |
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| T-O | Nov 14 2007, 12:08 AM Post #64 |
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Nath.. This post is not necessarily directed at you alone, but to all those who think the bible is simply a bunch of books written by men, no inspiration from God etc. There is an enormous amount of proof, real proof as to its authenticity as being inspired by God and He had quite a number of different men from Kings, to poor men, write the various books. The bible itself at 2 Timothy 3:16 states that "all scripture is inspired and beneficial....." Now thats fine and dandy you may say but the point here is that any book that claims to be the word of God and is inspired would quite naturally be expected to be able to prove it, otherwise the claim would be hollow indeed. Well, the bible does do that explicitly.. Too much to relate all here but just consider a couple of points. For instance, the bible was penned by quite a number of men who lived during a span of a few thousand years. Men from various backgrounds, many of whom did not know each other and never would know each other having lived in different centuries. And yet, the bible is completely harmonious, each of these writers with each other, right to the finest details. Consider the hundreds and hundreds of prophecies that were penned hundreds of years in advance and that came to pass exactly as described. The prophecies about Christ alone were well over 300 of them, all of which were fulfilled. Consider the prophecies that would show the signs of who would be living when the last days of the entire world system would end, (not the physical world which will always be here forever) but that are being fulfilled as we speak... If anyone doubts this and has a serious question as to the validity of these claims please feel free to express your views with specifics, not just vague generalities. Too often people doubt the bible, and yet have never actually done any serious study about it. At the same time, various ones on here have stated that the bible has been used down through the centuries to enslave and suppress people, often in horrific ways. This is all very true. But consider this. These things were not done by real Christians but rather people who used the bible as an excuse to perpetrate their own wicked desires and goals. Please note: OFTEN THIS WAS DONE BY SO CALLED CHRISTIANS AND ESPECIALLY THE CLERGY OF THESE SO CALLED CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS. This is an irrefutable fact...... At the same time, there are Christians who do live by bible principles, united in a loving and loyal brotherhood around the entire eath. You know who they are... But I will tell you just in case. They are Jehovah's Witnesses. And this is also irrefutable. Now you may not like me being so outspoken about this, but it is the absolute truth and the truth can only be told one way. NO OTHER RELIGION ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH EVEN COMES CLOSE. I challenge anyone who doubts this to say so, with proof of course. Not just mean mouths because of animosity or outright hatred for JW's. Take care all. |
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| nath87 | Nov 14 2007, 10:02 PM Post #65 |
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DHB Legend
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didn't I just explain to you why the bible is fictionnal? blah. All I am hearing from the people who defend the bible here is that the proof that the bible is real is IN the Bible. How does that make sense ? If I make my own version of the bible, would it be valid if I said it was true because what is written in my bible is enough truth to show that I am right? (referring to Telegraph-Operator here) .... I don't see how the Bible can justify itself. You need an outside source. There is none. |
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| nath87 | Nov 14 2007, 10:07 PM Post #66 |
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DHB Legend
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Just like I said in my other post, you cannot use the same text to justify it's existence. Sure it may sound sophisticated, I am sure if I did more research on it I could also find proof of the invalidity of the bible. You are probably the same person who would say that I am going to hell because I sleep with guys. Because of your own personal opinion. This is just a guess. and you use the bible to justify your cause. I mean to me the bible IS just a way to control people and what they do to the way a certain someone likes it. I know you did state out the fact that it has been used in the wrong way. But I got to tell you, I have rarely seen the bible, ever truly used in its correct form. I've never seen any religion not use it to force their values or opinions on others. THere is ALWAYS manipulations with the bible. no matter which religion you are with. There is no CLEAR message in the bible, there is a lot of contradiction. How can that be used to put all your faith in it ? these are just my thoughts right now... |
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| T-O | Nov 15 2007, 05:54 PM Post #67 |
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Nath you didn’t read my post carefully enough. I did say that if the bible (or any other book for that matter) says that it is the word of God and inspired, then that very book would either have to be able to prove it or it would not be at all believable. Words to that effect. And that statement is really what sets the bible apart from other works. It says it is inspired and beneficial.. And of course that would apply if you made your own version of the bible as you mention. If you were bold enough to make a statement like that about your own bible, then you better be prepared to show that its true or else it would have no value. Maybe the bible prophecies such as the fall of Jerusalem, the captivity of the Jews in Babylon, the name of the king who would free them (Cyrus the Great) who was named at least 200 years before he was born and the exact manner in which his armies would do it, the 300 and more prophecies about the coming of Christ, the rise and fall of the League of Nations and the United Nations as its successor, and so many others which are part of recorded history in the writings of secular historians may not impress you too much. Nevertheless recorded history does indeed note many of these things, and archeological evidence is turning up many things that formerly some people criticized the bible for as not true, and now are found to be exactly true. But this should impress you. Jesus predicted the conditions that would prevail during the conclusion of the system and the signs that all can look for to indicate that we are living now in the last days of this system. This also would indicate when he is present in kingdom power, that is as the King of God’s Kingdom. Mathew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 are part of these signs and 2 Timothy 3: 1-5, as well as Revelation that describes the four horsemen of the apocalypse. But note in particular Mathew 24 verse 14… which reads… “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come”. Did you know that this preaching of the good news of the kingdom is RIGHT NOW being spread throughout the entire earth to any who will listen. Many don’t, many do. 7 million JW’s are doing this work right now, as we speak. This is the main message we have when we call, that is to make people aware that God’s kingdom is now in operation in these last days, and it will not only conclude the wicked system on earth with the battle of Armageddon (which also is a prophecy) but it will see that God’s name Jehovah is declared in all the earth and made sanctified as Jesus prayed that it would be in what is known as the “Lords Prayer”. That model prayer also was a prophecy in itself. Remember Jesus prophesied this would happen 2000 years or so ago. This same message as a warning to all is being done throughout the earth. Just think of the logistics of this. IT WOULD BE ENTIRELY IMPOSSIBLE for ANY organization or government for that matter, to accomplish this, unless they had Jehovah’s holy spirit directing them. Can you possibly imagine any organization saying they were going to do this? 300 churches of Christendom formed together in 1970 to “take Christ to America” as they put it and hoped to have it operational by 1973, so they called in the “Key 73 Initiative”. After many millions of dollars and constant urging of the clergy to their parishioners to take part, it was doomed to become a dismal failure, even by their own admission. And remember, this was just America they were talking about. So don’t discount the bible quite so easily. It is full of proof, along with recorded history and also with what we can see with our own eyes today (if our eyes are indeed open) that the bible is God’s guideline to man. 2 Corinthians 4:4 states that Satan, the god of this system, has blinded peoples eyes, so that the good news won't come through. How true that is. Does anyone really want to fall into that category? Not a good idea. I hope this little bit helps somewhat as we could write pages of things that show the bible to be true, not contradictory, and all the bible writers in harmony with each other. Only inspiration by God could make this possible. |
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| T-O | Nov 15 2007, 06:24 PM Post #68 |
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Nath.. Sorry I didn’t realize that you had posted this before I put my last one on. Here are a few thoughts on this post of yours. Your quote.. Just like I said in my other post, you cannot use the same text to justify it's existence. Sure it may sound sophisticated, I am sure if I did more research on it I could also find proof of the invalidity of the bible. Reply.. Your reasoning is understandable, but if you will, please do find something that would prove the invalidity of the bible. Your quote.. You are probably the same person who would say that I am going to hell because I sleep with guys. Because of your own personal opinion. This is just a guess. and you use the bible to justify your cause. I mean to me the bible IS just a way to control people and what they do to the way a certain someone likes it. I know you did state out the fact that it has been used in the wrong way. Reply.. I presume you are talking about fiery hell torment. There is no such thing according to the bible. That’s good news all by itself. As far as homosexuality is concerned, no I would never condemn you WITH MY PERSONAL OPINION. But yes, I do use the bible because I believe it to be the word of God, our Creator. And yes, homosexuality is definitely condemned in the bible. That is the main reason that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, because of the rampant homosexuality. And no, JW’s NEVER use the bible to control anyone. The bible is used as our sole guideline. If anyone wishes to ignore it, that is their mistake. But never are our beliefs from the bible FORCED on anyone. Yes, we reason together, as the bible says, but NEVER FORCE anyone to say or do what we want them to do. We take the message to people. Its their sole discretion as to whether or not they wish to accept it. On the other hand, if one who is already a JW, and begins to commit wrongdoing, that is wrongdoing according to the bible like adultery, stealing etc etc, then these ones have the opportunity of bible based counsel. Often that counsel if accepted, sometimes not. But if anyone commits a serious wrongdoing and is not repentant, then they are not welcome in the Christian congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and are expelled until such time as they may have a change of heart. That keeps the congregations clean in God’s sight. Quite a contrast wouldn’t you say to the other religions around the world, who not only turn a blind eye to the shenanigans of its members, (especially if that person has a lot of cash to give to the church) but in some cases actually condone these things. Your quote.. But I got to tell you, I have rarely seen the bible, ever truly used in its correct form. I've never seen any religion not use it to force their values or opinions on others. THere is ALWAYS manipulations with the bible. no matter which religion you are with. There is no CLEAR message in the bible, there is a lot of contradiction. How can that be used to put all your faith in it ? Reply.. Two things. I challenge you to name instances where JW’s have done this, and I also challenge you to name contradictions and messages that are not clear. I want to commend the thoughts you have put into these last few posts. You are the only one so far who has and your thoughts are well done. Thanks for that. |
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