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Why women can't be Priests; in the Catholic Faith
Topic Started: Nov 21 2007, 11:14 PM (617 Views)
MoRivera
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I know this issue has been brought up before. I recently came across this information, which explains it much better than I could:

No-Woman's Land
With an apparent priest shortage and so many Protestant denominations embracing women ministers, some people wonder why the Catholic Church doesn't allow female Priests. First of all, its not because women aren't qualified or that they're somehow not worthy of this calling.

It's a constitutive element of the Sacrament Holy Orders-any Pope, Council, or Bishop CAN'T change it. The same is true about the use of water for Baptism and bread and wine for the Holy Eucharist. The elements of every Sacrament can't be changed, because Christ established it. This belief is shared by the Eastern Orthodox, who also don't ordain women for the very same reason. It has nothing to do with who's more worthy or suitable for Holy Orders in the same way that the ban on non-Catholics for receiving Holy Communion has nothing to do with any moral or scriptural judgment on the persons involved. It has to do with sacred tradition, which is considered divinely inspired as Sacred Scripture.

The reason the Roman Catholic Church is unable to ordain women-be it to the diaconate, priesthood, or episcopacy-is actually threefold:
-The Church can't change what constitutes valid matter for any of the seven sacraments
-Sacred Tradition-nearly 2000 years old, has never had an instance of women priests
-Jesus didn't ordain any women or call any of them to be apostles-thus excluding his mother even!

Maleness is as essential to the Sacrament of Holy Orders as wheat bread and grape whine are to the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. This is something the Pope can not change.

It is not considered a matter of injustice, because not all men are allowed to be ordained. Just having a personal vocation isn't enough. The local bishop must call the man. No man can demand or expect this ordination, because its a gift, not a right. Think of it like this: Just as it's not unjust for men not to be able to give birth, it's not unjust for women not to be ordained.

The Church points to the fact that Jesus was both God and man. From all eternity, he was divine with a divine nature, intellect, and will. But he was also born of a human mother and took on a human nature as well. In his divinity, Jesus was God and pure spirit, but in his humanity, he was a man. His gender was more than accidental, because the Church is his bride. And because the priest acts in the person of Christ, then the Priest reflects Christ to the entire Church whenever he celebrates any of the sacraments. The maleness of Christ was also part of who he was, and therefore, Jesus only called men to be his apostles even though his mother would have been a far better choice. But if a woman were to be ordained, she wouldn't be espoused to the Church, because the Church is considered a mother. A mother needs a father to complement the equation.
-Rev. John Trigilio Jr., Ph.D
-Rev. Kenneth Brighenti, Ph.D
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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MoRivera
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lol
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Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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kyyankgrrl
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And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

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As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.
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MoRivera
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kyyankgrrl,Nov 22 2007
01:11 AM
And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

Posted Image

As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.

you'd be the same person to tell Jesus Christ himself was wrong. Your constant, almost hatred, and lack of respect towards Christ is very dangerous. I'd obey the one who died for my sins. You, however, like to uprise against his teachings. Obviously, that is a very serious thing.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Jayhawk Bill
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Mo, how would you respond to John 20:1-18?

New International Version
 
1Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"
3So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9(They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene
10Then the disciples went back to their homes, 11but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?"

  "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." 14At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

15"Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?"
      Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."

16Jesus said to her, "Mary."
      She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

17Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

18Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.


John 20:17, in particular, seems to be the annointing of Mary Magdalene as a disciple, the forerunner of Catholic priests: Jesus is calling Mary to spread the word of the miracle of his resurrection.

***

A good link by a group supporting inclusion of women in the priesthood can be found here:

http://romancatholicwomenpriests.org/Women...ry-June2006.pdf

I'm not a Catholic. Pragmatically, despite recent scandals regarding priests' sexual proclivities, great good has been done for Western civilization by the priesthood. Recognizing the aggregate good done for society, I'd be reluctant at one level to see a change.

Conversely, could it be possible that the popes and cardinals have, over centuries, lost part of the original word of Jesus, and that still greater good might be done if all who were called might join the priesthood?
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kyyankgrrl
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MoRivera,Nov 22 2007
11:09 AM
kyyankgrrl,Nov 22 2007
01:11 AM
And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

Posted Image

As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.

you'd be the same person to tell Jesus Christ himself was wrong. Your constant, almost hatred, and lack of respect towards Christ is very dangerous. I'd obey the one who died for my sins. You, however, like to uprise against his teachings. Obviously, that is a very serious thing.

Your hatred of women blinds you to a simple fact: God has the power to call ANYONE to preach His word. It is only man who puts restrictions and limitations on who God can call.

I do not rebel against or disrespect God or His Son Jesus Christ; man, however, I have no problem disagreeing with.

And I ask again: since the Bible clearly indicates at least some of the apostles were married men, why does the Catholic church deny priests the right to marry?
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In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. - Margaret Thatcher

I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog that growls every morning, a parrot that swears all afternoon, and a cat that comes home late at night - Marie Corelli (19th century author)

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase. - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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MoRivera,Nov 21 2007
11:14 PM
I know this issue has been brought up before. I recently came across this information, which explains it much better than I could:

No-Woman's Land
With an apparent priest shortage and so many Protestant denominations embracing women ministers, some people wonder why the Catholic Church doesn't allow female Priests. First of all, its not because women aren't qualified or that they're somehow not worthy of this calling.

It's a constitutive element of the Sacrament Holy Orders-any Pope, Council, or Bishop CAN'T change it. The same is true about the use of water for Baptism and bread and wine for the Holy Eucharist. The elements of every Sacrament can't be changed, because Christ established it. This belief is shared by the Eastern Orthodox, who also don't ordain women for the very same reason. It has nothing to do with who's more worthy or suitable for Holy Orders in the same way that the ban on non-Catholics for receiving Holy Communion has nothing to do with any moral or scriptural judgment on the persons involved. It has to do with sacred tradition, which is considered divinely inspired as Sacred Scripture.

The reason the Roman Catholic Church is unable to ordain women-be it to the diaconate, priesthood, or episcopacy-is actually threefold:
-The Church can't change what constitutes valid matter for any of the seven sacraments
-Sacred Tradition-nearly 2000 years old, has never had an instance of women priests
-Jesus didn't ordain any women or call any of them to be apostles-thus excluding his mother even!

Maleness is as essential to the Sacrament of Holy Orders as wheat bread and grape whine are to the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. This is something the Pope can not change.

It is not considered a matter of injustice, because not all men are allowed to be ordained. Just having a personal vocation isn't enough. The local bishop must call the man. No man can demand or expect this ordination, because its a gift, not a right. Think of it like this: Just as it's not unjust for men not to be able to give birth, it's not unjust for women not to be ordained.

The Church points to the fact that Jesus was both God and man. From all eternity, he was divine with a divine nature, intellect, and will. But he was also born of a human mother and took on a human nature as well. In his divinity, Jesus was God and pure spirit, but in his humanity, he was a man. His gender was more than accidental, because the Church is his bride. And because the priest acts in the person of Christ, then the Priest reflects Christ to the entire Church whenever he celebrates any of the sacraments. The maleness of Christ was also part of who he was, and therefore, Jesus only called men to be his apostles even though his mother would have been a far better choice. But if a woman were to be ordained, she wouldn't be espoused to the Church, because the Church is considered a mother. A mother needs a father to complement the equation.
-Rev. John Trigilio Jr., Ph.D
-Rev. Kenneth Brighenti, Ph.D

MO.. That is so full of errors when compared to God's word the bible.
Isnt the bible what any church should base their teachings on and not the dogma's that are dreamed up by the church?

When I am up to it, I will point out some of the inconsistent teachings here that are in opposition to the bible.
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kyyankgrrl,Nov 22 2007
01:11 AM
And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

Posted Image

As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.

Right on KY. Even Peter was married according to the bible and he was supposed to be the first Pope according to the Catholic church.
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MoRivera
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from a friend, so I can't take credit:

Quote:
 
There are married clergy within the Catholic Church at this very moment. The Eastern rite has them and even a few exist within the Roman/Latin Rite. I think all of them are converts from one of the Reformed Faiths, they were clergy there and got special dispensation from a bishop to be ordained as a priest....also I think all of them are associate pastors as opposed to the main priest.

Frankly I can't imagine a priest being married to a woman, they are already married to the Church.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Element
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Didn't read the whole article, but did it say woman couldn't be priests because they couldn't find any that molest children?
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Element,Nov 23 2007
02:47 PM
Didn't read the whole article, but did it say woman couldn't be priests because they couldn't find any that molest children?

Ouch !!
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Element,Nov 23 2007
03:47 PM
Didn't read the whole article, but did it say woman couldn't be priests because they couldn't find any that molest children?

BURN!!! oh god... lmaooo
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MoRivera
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Element,Nov 23 2007
02:47 PM
Didn't read the whole article, but did it say woman couldn't be priests because they couldn't find any that molest children?

Recently in Connecticut, a cop is in court because he harassed an 11 year old girl. I say we rid the entire world of police, firemen, and ambulance? Same argument you're making.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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TheHugeUnit
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It seems a lot of gay men go into priest hood to hide the fact their gay.
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Jayhawk Bill
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Yes, but you skipped over my query.

Rather than quoting Scripture for a moment, let's turn to history.

This is "Fractio Panis:"

Posted Image

It's a Eucharist, dating from roughly 100 AD. All of the concelebrants are clearly women.

***

Back to Scripture, Romans 16:1-2 discusses Phoebe, who seems to be an officer of the church. Of course, in the time of Paul there were no priests, but rather only those who took as their mission spreading the word of Jesus. This mention of Phoebe makes it clear that women spread the word, just as men did. The image above also makes this clear. The difference came with the formal Catholic Church, not directly from the word of Jesus.

***

AFAIK. YMMV. I do not insult the work of scores of generations of priests, men who made Catholicism the foundation for our Western Civilization and who gave the service of their lives for their beliefs. I merely suggest that maybe women were intended to play a role as well.
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MoRivera,Nov 23 2007
07:26 PM
Recently in Connecticut, a cop is in court because he harassed an 11 year old girl. I say we rid the entire world of police, firemen, and ambulance? Same argument you're making.

If a cop sexually harassed a girl or molested a child, he/she would be fired. Not moved to a different police station. The church is disgusting.
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MoRivera
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Telegraph-operator,Nov 22 2007
10:22 PM
kyyankgrrl,Nov 22 2007
01:11 AM
And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

Posted Image

As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.

Right on KY. Even Peter was married according to the bible and he was supposed to be the first Pope according to the Catholic church.

Priests aren't forbidden to marry. Priests have freely chosen to promise not to marry, which is entirely a different thing
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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bostonfanatic87
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MoRivera,Nov 24 2007
09:47 PM
Telegraph-operator,Nov 22 2007
10:22 PM
kyyankgrrl,Nov 22 2007
01:11 AM
And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

Posted Image

As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.

Right on KY. Even Peter was married according to the bible and he was supposed to be the first Pope according to the Catholic church.

Priests aren't forbidden to marry. Priests have freely chosen to promise not to marry, which is entirely a different thing

Yeah it's just thaat if you don't make that independant promise they won't let you be a preist.
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MoRivera
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bostonfanatic87,Nov 24 2007
09:50 PM
MoRivera,Nov 24 2007
09:47 PM
Telegraph-operator,Nov 22 2007
10:22 PM
kyyankgrrl,Nov 22 2007
01:11 AM
And here I thought you'd prefer this avatar:

Posted Image

As for the women priests in the Catholic church: The same logic is used to deny priests the right to marry, even though the Bible indicates at least several of Christ's apostles were married men.

Right on KY. Even Peter was married according to the bible and he was supposed to be the first Pope according to the Catholic church.

Priests aren't forbidden to marry. Priests have freely chosen to promise not to marry, which is entirely a different thing

Yeah it's just thaat if you don't make that independant promise they won't let you be a preist.

with a little help from someone entering the Priesthood, here is a simple explanation of what would happen if a Priest did marry.

He would then ask the Pope if he could be released of his promises when he was ordained. This includes his promise of celibacy and obedience. If the Pope agrees, he will allowed to be married without committing sin. He would remain a Priest, however, some Priestly rights would be taken away. No longer can he perform confession or give last rights to the dying.

If a Priest marries and does not get the ok from the Pope, he would be living in a state of mortal sin.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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