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would you not vote for a candidate...
Topic Started: Dec 9 2007, 08:24 PM (1,023 Views)
Caulfield
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Anti life.

Yes, because he and all the other Demon-crats are insisting that every woman must have an abortion and the doctors who perform them are trying to lure women in to do it.
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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MoRivera
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Caulfield,Dec 31 2007
09:33 PM
Anti life.

Yes, because he and all the other Demon-crats are insisting that every woman must have an abortion and the doctors who perform them are trying to lure women in to do it.

no, they're not. But they're not willing to defend life. If you're not willing to defend life, how can you be for life? I'm not saying they go around promoting abortions. Far from it. However, they refuse to speak out in defense of the unborn baby, and allow the woman a "choice" as to whether or not her child gets murdered. That certainly isn't respecting life, is it. Whats the opposite of pro? Anti.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Caulfield
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Well 90% of Republicans aren't either. Just because you're anti-abortion doesn't mean you're pro-life.

What's the best way to prevent unnecessary pregnancies? Safe sex. But no, Republicans want to teach abstinence-only sex education. Legislating morality like that will always backfire. It is now, it always has, it always will.

Want to prevent abortions? Teach the use of condoms and the pill. Easiest way.
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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MoRivera
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Caulfield,Jan 1 2008
10:24 AM
Well 90% of Republicans aren't either. Just because you're anti-abortion doesn't mean you're pro-life.

What's the best way to prevent unnecessary pregnancies? Safe sex. But no, Republicans want to teach abstinence-only sex education. Legislating morality like that will always backfire. It is now, it always has, it always will.

Want to prevent abortions? Teach the use of condoms and the pill. Easiest way.

then you're promoting pre-marital sex. Thats a problem.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Caulfield
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Again, legislating morality. Doesn't work.

You can preach against it all you want, but people always have and always will have sex before marriage. More than 75% of people, in fact. Keeping condoms out of their hands won't stop it, it will just make unwanted pregnancies more common and spread diseases faster. Just like banning abortion won't stop it, it will only make the procedure more dangerous to all involved.

But hey, if you want to legislate morality like this, then you have to accept the consequences that come with it. And you and similar-minded folk are getting it dealt to you in spades.
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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Caulfield
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TheWanger,Dec 12 2007
02:17 PM
I don't think america is the only country that has used slaves as well.

They weren't. But they were the last to make it illegal.

And in most countries, any people could be enslaved (usually as debt repayment), no matter what race. Here it was only blacks and all were forced into it.
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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MoRivera
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Caulfield,Jan 1 2008
11:25 AM
Again, legislating morality. Doesn't work.

You can preach against it all you want, but people always have and always will have sex before marriage. More than 75% of people, in fact. Keeping condoms out of their hands won't stop it, it will just make unwanted pregnancies more common and spread diseases faster. Just like banning abortion won't stop it, it will only make the procedure more dangerous to all involved.

But hey, if you want to legislate morality like this, then you have to accept the consequences that come with it. And you and similar-minded folk are getting it dealt to you in spades.

if bank robbing was made legal, would more people do it? Of course. Why not? Therefore, why should we feel that banning abortion would make things worse? You're going to have your women who seek abortions, absolutely, but the amount of children that are murdered each year will drastically drop. No longer will 1,300,000 children die each year because a mother feels she has a right to murder her baby. If we can get that number down to 500,000, did we not improve? Keeping abortion safe and legal is just a messed up way of giving consent to this unspeakable crime. A murder is still a murder, but the more children we can save the better.

I understand that you can not make laws based on religious ideology. However, the scientific evidence is quite clear. Life is present at the moment of conception. Many women who have considered having abortions changed their mind when Doctors showed them ultrasounds of the child they carry. We should work to protect life, not destroy it. We can not continue evil in hopes of good, which is your outlook. You want to keep abortion legal so that mothers don't have to seek unsafe abortions. Just because 9/11 brought this country together in an unbreakable bond doesn't mean we want another 9/11. Right?
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Caulfield
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Where exactly did I say banning abortion would make things worse? Nowhere. I said the practice would be more dangerous. But nice strawman attempt there anyway.

Where are you getting this number of 1.3M abortions yearly? According to the Centers for Disease Control, the number of abortions yearly has decreased every year from 1993 through 2000 from 1,330,000 to 857,000 (yes, while that evil Democrat Bill Clinton was in office). That's just over a 35% drop. And some of these numbers are inflated: if a fetus dies in the womb and is removed by the same process, it is listed as an abortion even if it is not. Of the 1.5M "abortions" in 1992, at least 21,000, if not more, were mis-classified.

I see you're dodging the premarital sex commentary.

By any chance are you one of those kind of "Stop porn now" crusaders who claim it victimizes women and children, like the type I used to always see picketing an adult video store in my hometown?

And how exactly does 9/11 fit into this? Let's keep this on topic and not try to compare apples and oranges.
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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MoRivera
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Caulfield,Jan 1 2008
11:39 AM
Where exactly did I say banning abortion would make things worse? Nowhere. I said the practice would be more dangerous. But nice strawman attempt there anyway.

Where are you getting this number of 1.3M abortions yearly? According to the Centers for Disease Control, the number of abortions yearly has decreased every year from 1993 through 2000 from 1,330,000 to 857,000 (yes, while that evil Democrat Bill Clinton was in office). That's just over a 35% drop. And some of these numbers are inflated: if a fetus dies in the womb and is removed by the same process, it is listed as an abortion even if it is not. Of the 1.5M "abortions" in 1992, at least 21,000, if not more, were mis-classified.

I see you're dodging the premarital sex commentary.

By any chance are you one of those kind of "Stop porn now" crusaders who claim it victimizes women and children, like the type I used to always see picketing an adult video store in my hometown?

And how exactly does 9/11 fit into this? Let's keep this on topic and not try to compare apples and oranges.

If we ban abortion, surely the practice will be more dangerous because we would have rid the United States of these murderous doctors. If a woman decides to go into an alley and perform an abortion on herself, then oh well. We can not leave these baby-killing factories to be open just so these confused women can go end their child's life. Would it be more dangerous for a woman if she killed her child rather than a doctor doing so? Absolutely. That-by no means-should justify having abortion clinics. Should we have a clinic that hands out guns to those with suicidal thoughts?

Back in the 1950's and '60's, premarital sex was considered condemnable by society. Infact, I know a woman who was in Iraq in 2003, and they considered it offensive when she told them that she was a single mother. The traditional family values in America are gone. So, we must ask ourselves what caused this moral decline. More and more each year, America promotes abortions, homosexuality, gay marriage, pre-marital sex, and what ever other unethical thing that may cross your mind. Why is this so? The idea of liberalism, the Godless religion.

Where am I getting the 1.3 million from? Just about every website, every book, and every pro-life ministry I've attended.
"In 2002, 1.29 million abortions took place"
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Now I've checked wikipedia, and like you said, they are reporting that 890,000 of abortions occurred in 2003. That is a nice step, but that is also not enough. The day we are to fight for is for Roe V. Wade to be overturned, and that wikipedia states "0 abortions have occurred in 2009"

As you can see from the stats:
* 25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
* 21.3% Cannot afford a baby
* 14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
* 12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
* 10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
* 7.9% Want no (more) children
* 3.3% Risk to fetal health
* 2.8% Risk to maternal health
* 2.1% Other

most of your abortions come from women who don't want a child or cannot afford the child. This leads us to believe that they are carelessly having sex, and using abortion as a form of birth control. Presidential Candidate Ron Paul has delivered over 4,000 babies, and he has said that never once has he had to perform an abortion for medical reasons.

Along with another one of your points, Bill Clinton did do a fine job of educating women about abortion in hopes that would help many realize the wrong they're doing. I just have a problem when people who want to focus so much on reducing abortions refuse to call themselves pro-life. Choice should not be an option when it comes to child killing.
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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MoRivera
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I must add, that to restore the morality of America that we once had starts by restoring morality at home. That beings with 2 things. One, love for the unborn child, and two, the sacredness of a man/woman in marriage
Jesus built one Church. He also said to follow Him. If you are not in His Church, you aren't following very well.
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Caulfield
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If you're going to go quoting Guttmacher, then you need to pay attention to the fact that they say abortion is decreasing worldwide, and decreasing MOST in countries where it is most legal and most safe. Additionally, the lowest abortion rates are in areas where contraceptives are most widely available. As I stated before, you can't have it both ways: do you want fewer abortions while "encouraging premarital sex" as you say, or more abortions while making no effort to provide safe sex? It's one or the other. And if you legalize and make abortion safe while also promoting safe sex, you'll go to record low numbers of abortions. You want to see a number of zero? Yeah, don't hold your breath. Not happening, anywhere, anytime.

No one needs encouragement to have premarital sex. It's happening. It always has. It always will. They're doing it without encouragement, obviously, so why not just educate the people on protection? This is the part it doesn't seem like you're getting. In a study done by the Guttmacher Institute, in 2002, 75% of respondents under the age of 20 had engaged in premarital sex, and 95% of respondents under age 44 had premarital sex.

Among cohorts of women turning 15 between 1964 and 1993, at least 91% had had premarital sex by age 30. Among those turning 15 between 1954 and 1963, 82% had had premarital sex by age 30, and 88% had done so by age 44.

So even in the 1950's and 60's, over 80% had premarital sex. So much for saying "premarital sex was considered condemnable by society" in the 1950's and 60's.

1.3M seems like a gross over-estimate. This would mean that every year, about 10% of American women have an abortion, or since 1995, every woman in America has had one. I already pointed out the erroneousness of the numbers, that even a miscarriage will often be counted as an abortion, even though it is not. How often does this happen? As I stated, at least 21,000 erroneous counts in 1992 alone, likely more.

Additionally, the 1.3M number from Guttmacher cannot be 100% verified. The CDC stated that in 2003, there were 848,000 abortions, not including CA, NH, and WV. Did those three states really tally up nearly half a million between them? I highly doubt it. Guttmacher's numbers have always been grossly overestimated even in years when every state reported numbers, between 200,000 and 400,000 over the CDC tallies.

With the commentary on the sanctity of marriage and being anti-pre-marital sex, am I correct to assume you're against pornography as well?
"To be a man you must have honor; honor and a peeeeeeeeeeeeenis!"
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