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| AL/NL MVP | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 6 2008, 10:14 PM (2,232 Views) | |
| YankeeNation | Sep 8 2008, 08:20 PM Post #41 |
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Avid BASEBALL FAN
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Santana - ROTFLMFAO Lincecum- Stick to him running for the Cy Young. I don't know how a Met could even be in the running for MVP. I don't know how anyone not named Albert Pujols is even mentioned with him. He's been consistent from wire to wire so far, and without him, the Cardinals wouldn't have contended for so long. |
[align=center]![]() Mariano Rivera - Greatest Closer that ever played the game. Quotes got borin, so I stopped =/[/align] | |
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| PK14 | Sep 8 2008, 08:22 PM Post #42 |
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I hate pitchers for MVP. No one is more valuable in 30-35 games than another player in 145+ games. |
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| Mets Rule | Sep 8 2008, 08:22 PM Post #43 |
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Mr. Mojo Risin'
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Absollutely you can. How can a player on a non contending team have as much value as another on a contending team?The one without contending will be not contending whether the player is there or not. The one on a contending team is more valuable because HE is the main reason his team is so good. Without him, that team would NOT be in contention. |
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| Mets Rule | Sep 8 2008, 08:24 PM Post #44 |
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Mr. Mojo Risin'
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Do you have a point? If so, get to it. The point is the Astros are in it or out of it with Berkman. Stop asking stupid hypothetical questions. |
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| braveschopbraves | Sep 8 2008, 08:25 PM Post #45 |
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Yeah, though they are extremely important in their starts. If a starter goes 3 IP 8 ER the team pretty much has 0 chance of winning the game. if a star player goes 0-5 yeah the team might have a lower chance of winning but they easily still can. I don't think they should win MVP either, but some SP deserve it more than Delgado. |
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| webgem924 | Sep 8 2008, 08:27 PM Post #46 |
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He's had several games blown by him by the Mets' bullpen, by various leads. Just the Mets awful bullpen shows how valuable Johan is. He can go 8 innings in some games, and it still might not be enough for the Mets, which is sad. |
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| YankeeNation | Sep 8 2008, 08:27 PM Post #47 |
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So, it pretty much takes a season like Ryan Howards '06 or A-Rods '03 to be considered "valuable" despite not being in the hunt? And of course, Albert batting .350 isn't anything special? I loled at that last part about one person being the main reason his team is contending. So basically, if the Mets had just Carlos Delgado, METS WIN!!! No. |
[align=center]![]() Mariano Rivera - Greatest Closer that ever played the game. Quotes got borin, so I stopped =/[/align] | |
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| PK14 | Sep 8 2008, 08:29 PM Post #48 |
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Absollutely you can. How can a player on a non contending team have as much value as another on a contending team?The one without contending will be not contending whether the player is there or not. The one on a contending team is more valuable because HE is the main reason his team is so good. Without him, that team would NOT be in contention. Take it like this, what player you take away from a team will hurt them the most? In this case, if you take away Pujols or Berkman from their teams, they are far worse. |
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| PK14 | Sep 8 2008, 08:30 PM Post #49 |
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He's had several games blown by him by the Mets' bullpen, by various leads. Just the Mets awful bullpen shows how valuable Johan is. He can go 8 innings in some games, and it still might not be enough for the Mets, which is sad. He's probably not going to win it at all just because of his win total. |
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| braveschopbraves | Sep 8 2008, 08:33 PM Post #50 |
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If the Mets didn't have Delgado, they would not be in 1st. True. Because Delgado has some valuableness.... and it would be the same no matter what team he is on. If he was on the Pirates this year, they would be way under .500 still. Though he'd have the same valuableness. |
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| Mets Rule | Sep 8 2008, 08:33 PM Post #51 |
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Mr. Mojo Risin'
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Can you point out where I once argued that Carlos should win it over Pujols? Please, do. I'd like to know. Thanks. Um, yes. Carlos is THE absolute reason why we're winning. We'd be, without a doubt, under .500 without him. MAIN reason doensn't mean ONLY reason, go read an English book. |
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| Mets Rule | Sep 8 2008, 08:35 PM Post #52 |
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Mr. Mojo Risin'
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What are they far worse from? Being bad? Take it THIS way: Would you rather be 62-100 and last place, or 70-92 and in last place. Does it matter? |
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| braveschopbraves | Sep 8 2008, 08:36 PM Post #53 |
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Yeah. Most good players if you take them away the team will lose a good total of wins. The playoff teams if you take away their wins they wouldn't be in the playoffs. But the .500 teams would be under .500, and the under .500 teams would be wayyy under .500. You shouldn't have to be on the team with the 24 other players that make you a playoff team to win the MVP If the Braves didn't have Chipper and McCann, they would have the worst record in the league. They were very valuable to us. |
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| Bo_ | Sep 8 2008, 08:37 PM Post #54 |
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Wins are wins, and considering it's not a team award, you can have value on a losing team. Player A's "wins per year" (if there ever was such a stat that was accurate) is +12. He takes his team from a 50 win team to a 62 win team. Player B is +9. From 85 to 94 wins. Player A gets punished for playing with a team of shit monkeys?
It's an individual award, how is this the individual's fault?
What the hell lol. Yeah I'm sure it has nothing to do with the team as a whole being good.
That's kind of arrogant, how could you possibly know that? The Twins lost Liriano in '06, and immediately began to play the best 3 months of baseball this decade. I guess that means Liriano wasn't valuable. I think the success of baseball teams is more complex than you're making it out to be. |
| Glenn Beck RAPED AND MURDERED a young girl in 1990. | |
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| braveschopbraves | Sep 8 2008, 08:37 PM Post #55 |
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I'd also rather win 90 games in the regular season with a WS than 116 and lose in the playoffs, but we know who the better team is
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| braveschopbraves | Sep 8 2008, 08:38 PM Post #56 |
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Exactly |
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| webgem924 | Sep 8 2008, 08:39 PM Post #57 |
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Oh, I know that. I was just pointing out that Johan's mvp case is probably better than Delgado's mvp case for their impacts. Johan goes 8 innings, allows less than 3 runs, and cannot get a decision because the Mets' bullpen is one of the worst in the league. Johan goes 9 innings and the Mets can get a win. Sure, Delgado has played a big role for the Mets but Johan has a bigger case for mvp than Delgado, though no matter what it will go to Pujols |
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| Bo_ | Sep 8 2008, 08:42 PM Post #58 |
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The Mor You Neau
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MetsRule, your whole argument is based around the MVP somehow being partly a team award. A player who helps a terrible team become only slightly below average based on his individual play holds no value? Put Carlos Delgado and his monster second half on the Orioles. He's the exact same player, but the Orioles have the worst ERA in the second half, which means they would most likely still lose. Suddenly, by switching his uniform, he's less valuable? k if you just say that MVP is partly a team award, I'll take that and shut up |
| Glenn Beck RAPED AND MURDERED a young girl in 1990. | |
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| webgem924 | Sep 8 2008, 08:45 PM Post #59 |
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MR, who is the AL MVP iyo? |
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| Mets Rule | Sep 8 2008, 08:50 PM Post #60 |
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Mr. Mojo Risin'
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It's not the individual's 'fault'. The general idea here is that Player A, even though he might be valuable, is not as valuable TO HIS TEAM because the team would be bad with/without him. Now, the MVP award is partly based on the team IMO because overall value can be based on how good the team is. For example: Player A is probably better than Player B. Player A plays on the Nationals, Player B plays on the Rays. Player A is valuable to his team. Player B is valuable to his team. In the end, Player B holds more value TO THE TEAM because he was the most important factor in getting his team to the playoffs. This means that if Player B was on the Nats, he'd lose. We simply have different opinions on the MVP award. I feel it should be someone helping his team in contention or get to the playoffs. |
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