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Interesting
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Topic Started: Sep 19 2008, 02:10 PM (465 Views)
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YankeeNation
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Sep 19 2008, 02:10 PM
Post #1
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Avid BASEBALL FAN
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On the afternoon of August 1, a hot Friday in Los Angeles, I listened to uber agent Scott Boras extol the Yogi Berra-like virtues of his client, Manny Ramirez. "Yogi had his own language and identity," said Boras.
As does Ramirez, who soon appeared in mirrored shades with a full mane of dreads. "Boston is in the past," he declared in his pidgin patois. "I'm thinking blue right now."
Meet the candidates Pujols So who is Manny up against? FOXSports.com baseball editor Aram Tolegian runs down the top five candidates for the NL MVP.
Actually, I thought, he'd prefer Dodger green. Ramirez had finally and permanently fallen out of favor in Boston, shoving a traveling secretary and suffering a knee injury that miraculously healed as soon as the Red Sox renounced their option and traded him to L.A.
It wasn't very Yogi-like, nor inconsistent with Curt Schilling's accusation that Ramirez "disrespected" his teammates. Then again, I wonder if Boras could distinguish between Ramirez's "open spirit," as he called it, and the spirit of commerce. The real reason for the trade was money. It was said, with some authority, that Boras believed he could get his client up to $100 million for four seasons.
Now I understand Boras' status as baseball's designated villain, but I can't help but root for him. As a rule, the owners — most of them prone to lazy and collusive thinking — believe in welfare (expansion fees, luxury taxes, stadium subsidies). Boras believes, if nothing else, in the sanctity of the market. For years, he's been more enterprising than his competition.
Still, $25 mil per for a 36-year-old malcontent?
Good luck, I thought.
Now, two months later, I can't help but think that Boras has outsmarted the opposition yet again.
No one has done as much for a single team this season as Manny Ramirez has done for Los Angeles. Not only has he transformed the Dodgers, he's changed the balance of power in the National League.
"I don't think it's going to happen," said Joe Torre when recently asked about Ramirez's MVP chances. "Two months is really tough. You look at Pujols and some of the things he's done ..."
Conventional wisdom says the league's most valuable player is Albert Pujols, who is hitting .354 with 34 homers and 104 RBIs. The MVP ballot's first two criteria are, first, "actual value of a player to his team" and second, "number of games played." To be sure, then, a first-place vote for Pujols is not a ballot miscast. But the Cardinals are a fourth-place team in the Central Division.
"It's depending on your interpretation of MVP," said Torre, who won the award with the Cardinals in '71. Torre recalls the controversy engendered by his selection: though he had the best stats, St. Louis didn't make the playoffs. Willie Stargell, meanwhile, led Pittsburgh to a World Series victory. "That's part of the argument," said Torre.
What makes a player valuable is not necessarily, or easily, quantifiable. Ryan Howard leads the league with 45 homers and 137 RBIs. But he's on his way to 200 strikeouts and hitting .249 — 18 points less than the lowest average by an MVP (that would be Marty Marion, a shortstop, who hit .267 in 1944). And though he's been torrid of late, the Phillies were still a first-place team early in the season when he couldn't buy a hit.
Next, consider CC Sabathia. If Ramirez should receive consideration for a partial season, then so should Sabathia, who's 9-1 since joining Milwaukee. The Brewers were 49-39 when he arrived from Cleveland. Now they're 84-68, a marginal drop in winning percentage.
Now, Ramirez's "actual value" far exceeds "number of games played." The Dodgers were 54-54 the day he arrived, but seemed worse off than that. They had little else but their "kids" — this generation's answer to Eric Karros — all of them good, but none great. In other words, they were star-less, the dullest big-market team I've ever seen.
What's more, you had the feeling they were about to crash. Their shortstop was apparently lost for the season. Their closer was on the DL. Their big free-agent acquisition (Andruw Jones, whom Boras got two years at a little more than $36 million) was a big, fat bust. And though the Dodgers are a mellow way to pass the time between this town's real obsessions — Lakers basketball and Southern Cal football — the general manager had finally begun to feel some real heat. It was about to get ugly.
Then came Manny, who made everybody forget that vast fortunes had been spent on Jones and Jason Schmidt. The Dodgers were hitting .256 that day. According to Stats Inc., they've been hitting .285 ever since. As of Friday morning, they are 80-73, in sole possession of first place, and a lock for the playoffs.
"He made the difference," Torre said the other day.
Ramirez single-handedly changed the Dodgers from a bad-hitting club to a good-hitting one. Jeff Kent (the relentlessly dour veteran whose departure may have actually added to the club's recent good fortune) was hitting .255 when Ramirez arrived, but .343 thereafter. Andre Ethier, one of those aforementioned "kids" — a .274 hitter on August 1 — is batting .453 in front of Ramirez.
As for the prospective MVP himself, he's batting .400 with 44 RBIs in as many games. He has six game-winning hits. His slugging percentage is .738. His on-base percentage is .485. Even when he has a bad day, as he did Thursday, he walks a couple of times.
Finally, there's this: Dodger home attendance has gone from an average of 44,577 to 48,494, a 9 percent increase since Ramirez arrived.
Now you want to talk about value? Certainly, Boras does.
He's worth more here in Los Angeles, on a team with such a desperate need for a star, in a town where a star's peculiarities are interpreted as Buddha-like (or even Yogi-like) wisdom. It's not like Boston or New York. Everybody loves Manny here.
But maybe none more than Dodger general manager Ned Colletti. I can just imagine how Boras will begin the negotiations:
"What's it worth to you?" he'll say. "My guy saved your team and your job."
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8581454?MSNHPHMA
A Very interesting article for the case of Manny for NL MVP. Now note before I am bashed, I am a Pujols supporter, but I can see why Manny can be considered a justified candidate despite playing 2 months.
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[align=center] Mariano Rivera - Greatest Closer that ever played the game.
Quotes got borin, so I stopped =/[/align]
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zackboomer
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Sep 19 2008, 03:36 PM
Post #2
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DHB's Greatest Member
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no only pujols, anyone else and it is a joke
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NateFizzle
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Sep 19 2008, 03:48 PM
Post #3
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Any player that purposely sucks to get traded shouldn't be awarded MVP, no matter what he does for his new team.
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Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)

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Cathy
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Sep 19 2008, 04:28 PM
Post #4
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- NateFizzle,Sep 19 2008
- 04:48 PM
Any player that purposely sucks to get traded shouldn't be awarded MVP, no matter what he does for his new team.
That goes down in history as the best post ever on this board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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^Major props go to TN1F for this awesome sig
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(NateFizzle @ Sep 19 2008, 04:48 PM) Any player that purposely sucks to get traded shouldn't be awarded MVP, no matter what he does for his new team.
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Papelmate
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Sep 19 2008, 04:33 PM
Post #5
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the goddamn papelmate
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- NateFizzle,Sep 19 2008
- 03:48 PM
Any player that purposely sucks to get traded shouldn't be awarded MVP, no matter what he does for his new team.
like when manny was hitting .400 the 2 weeks before the trade
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- NHOI
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"If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were the best poster on Die Hard Baseball."
NATH87 GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
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zackboomer
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Sep 19 2008, 04:54 PM
Post #6
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- Cathy,Sep 19 2008
- 05:28 PM
That goes down in history as the best post ever on this board!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
manny plays for you for many seasons and two world series and you all just hate him now? great fans!
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Cathy
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Sep 19 2008, 04:57 PM
Post #7
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- zackboomer,Sep 19 2008
- 05:54 PM
manny plays for you for many seasons and two world series and you all just hate him now? great fans!
Answer me this one. How many times during his tenure here in Boston, did he keep asking to be traded?? Well he finally got his wish.
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^Major props go to TN1F for this awesome sig
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(NateFizzle @ Sep 19 2008, 04:48 PM) Any player that purposely sucks to get traded shouldn't be awarded MVP, no matter what he does for his new team.
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zackboomer
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Sep 19 2008, 05:01 PM
Post #8
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- Cathy,Sep 19 2008
- 05:57 PM
Answer me this one. How many times during his tenure here in Boston, did he keep asking to be traded?? Well he finally got his wish.
how many times did he hit 30+ homers, 100+ rbi and 300+ average?
he was your best player for a long time, you should love him forever now. deal with his attitude for what he gave you in return.
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Papelmate
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Sep 19 2008, 05:03 PM
Post #9
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the goddamn papelmate
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- Cathy,Sep 19 2008
- 04:57 PM
Answer me this one. How many times during his tenure here in Boston, did he keep asking to be traded?? Well he finally got his wish.
and how many times did he hit after asking to be traded?
I'm fine with the trade but to trash Manny is dumb, he was the best player on the team in his tenure here.
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- NHOI
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"If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were the best poster on Die Hard Baseball."
NATH87 GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
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braveschopbraves
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Sep 19 2008, 05:25 PM
Post #10
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his top 5 list contains
Manny, Ryan Howard, Braun
Howard is almost worse MR's Delgado pick
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[align=center]
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NateFizzle
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Sep 19 2008, 08:50 PM
Post #11
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- Papelmate,Sep 19 2008
- 05:33 PM
like when manny was hitting .400 the 2 weeks before the trade
He tanked to get the Red Sox to trade him, he tried hard to get a team interested.
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Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)

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zackboomer
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Sep 19 2008, 08:53 PM
Post #12
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DHB's Greatest Member
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yeah hitting 300 with a 400 obp 20 homers and 68 rbi in 100 games definitely is tanking
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zackboomer
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Sep 19 2008, 08:55 PM
Post #13
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oh and he hit .347 with a .473 and 4hr 16rbi in the last month with them.
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Matthias the Warrior
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Sep 19 2008, 09:00 PM
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Colossal Fuck-Up
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EAST HAMPTON, NY--Scott Boras has long been known as a tough negotiator. That reputation was bolstered yesterday when the super agent demanded $35 million to rescue a small child drowning in the ocean near Boras’s home in East Hampton, New York.
The child, an eight-year-old named Danny Corgin, was swimming at a private beach when he was caught in the undertow and dragged away. As he flailed and cried for help, Boras relaxed on the deck of his luxury yacht.
“My grandson was swimming around when all of a sudden he was caught in a riptide and dragged out to sea,” said Ethel Corgin, the boy’s grandmother. “I didn’t know what to do. I started panicking. Then I saw that man relaxing on his yacht reading a book. So I asked for his help, and he just said ‘You want me to save a drowning child? Hmmm…that kind of thing will run you around 35 million.’ I tried to negotiate with him, but he was unwavering. I’ve never seen anyone so stubborn, greedy, and heartless in my life. What is he, a sports agent?”
Corgin said that she was struck by Boras’s casual demeanor, even as her grandson struggled to stay afloat in the vicious riptide.
“He was panicking, the poor thing. He thought he was going to drown,” she said. “I thought for sure that [Boras] would help but he really wanted that money. He said I could give him 10 million up front and sign a written guarantee to deliver the rest within a week. He had the contracts already made up. He just whited out ‘third baseman’ and added ‘drowning child.’”
In the end, a deal was not struck. Fortunately, a fishing boat came by and plucked young Danny out of the water before he could drown. Corgin was relieved, but still outraged over Boras’s refusal to rescue her grandson.
For his part, Boras explained that he was just exercising good business sense.
“How much is an eight-year old boy’s life worth?” asked Boras. “Can you really ever say ‘No, that’s too expensive. I’d rather just let the boy drown?’ No, of course not. I was shocked when Mrs. Corgin refused my offer to save the boy. If you’re not willing to shell out a few bucks to save the life of a child, you’ve got to take a long look in the mirror.”
While young Danny was drowning, Boras described his mood as “horrified” and denied Corgin ’s allegations that he was casually reading his book.
“I think she's in denial or something,” said Boras. “It’s crazy to say that I was just causally looking on. I kept thinking how much I would love to save the boy, but Mrs. Corgin and I just couldn’t see eye to eye on compensation. I even acquiesced a little and told her to just give me 10 million up front, since the boy was dying and all. But she still refused. Talk about stubborn. She ought to be arrested for child neglect.”
Several baseball owners and general managers have had similar experiences with Boras. After learning about the East Hampton incident, a few came forward in support of Mrs. Corgin.
Arizona Diamondbacks GM Joe Garagiola, who haggled with Boras this year over the team’s number one draft pick, called the agent “a piece of shit.”
“That guy is a horrible asshole,” he said. “If I were that woman, Mrs. Corgin, I’d sue him for everything he has. How can you sit in your yacht and casually read a book while a young child is flailing in the water before you? He’s even worse than the Poston brothers. Sure, they’ve had a few people killed, but not children.”
While Boras’s actions have been deemed despicable by some, major league baseball players are flocking to him in record numbers. His aggressive, tough-nosed tactics have made his clients some of the most highly paid in the game.
“He refused to save a drowning child because his grandmother wouldn’t pay him 35 million?” asked Red Sox pitcher Derek Lowe, who is scheduled to be a free agent at the end of the year. “That’s sick. It’s cruel. It’s inhuman. He has absolutely no sense of decency or restraint. Anyone have his number?”
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PK14
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Sep 19 2008, 09:14 PM
Post #15
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- braveschopbraves,Sep 19 2008
- 05:25 PM
his top 5 list contains Manny, Ryan Howard, Braun Howard is almost worse MR's Delgado pick
since when is 45 HR 138 rbi not MVP worthy? I bet you dont even know how hot he has been since late june (.286/.369/.618 26 HR 73 RBI 80-280 48 R 13 2B .987 OPS)
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NateFizzle
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Sep 19 2008, 09:26 PM
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- Dirty 30,Sep 19 2008
- 10:14 PM
- braveschopbraves,Sep 19 2008
- 05:25 PM
his top 5 list contains Manny, Ryan Howard, Braun *thumbsdown* *thumbsdown* Howard is almost worse MR's Delgado pick
since when is 45 HR 138 rbi not MVP worthy? I bet you dont even know how hot he has been since late june (.286/.369/.618 26 HR 73 RBI 80-280 48 R 13 2B .987 OPS)
I agree with you. Those are the numbers that matter from a cleanup hitter, and he leads the majors by a good amount in both categories.
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Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)

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NateFizzle
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Sep 19 2008, 09:37 PM
Post #17
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Manny Ramirez VORPr (VORP per game)
Red Sox = .367 Dodgers = .824
No accident.
And I'm not trying to take away from Manny's performance this year, it's really great, but I'm just saying, it's pretty f-ed up what he did to the Red Sox.
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Jim Thome: 564 Homeuns (12th All-Time)

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Mets Rule
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Sep 19 2008, 09:53 PM
Post #18
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Mr. Mojo Risin'
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- braveschopbraves,Sep 19 2008
- 06:25 PM
his top 5 list contains Manny, Ryan Howard, Braun Howard is almost worse MR's Delgado pick
I never picked Delgado?
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[align=center]
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jaysdude09
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Sep 19 2008, 10:05 PM
Post #19
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KKKKKK
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Ryan Howard should not win the MVP
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 Do the Aybar
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PK14
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Sep 19 2008, 10:07 PM
Post #20
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- jaysdude09,Sep 19 2008
- 10:05 PM
Ryan Howard should not win the MVP
who should win it?
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