| ~ WELCOME TO THE JURY HOUSE, WESTLEY! ~ | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 4 2013, 09:48 PM (815 Views) | |
| Maximus | Aug 5 2013, 06:25 PM Post #106 |
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So that we're clear on my perspective on Trip: I think he is playing a brilliant, inspired, and all-but flawlessly executed game. He's broken up every alliance and every pairing, leaving utter chaos and destruction in his wake, He's positioned himself, over and over again, on the inside of each of those alliances, and then slipped out of the way as he pulled each of those houses down around the heads of their occupants. I really DO respect the skill and unflagging relentlessness of his strategy, not to mention the razor-sharp effectiveness of each move he's made. But I don't like the style. I don't appreciate his game on a personal, visceral level. And it has nothing to do with bitterness on my part for having gotten me voted out, or for having betrayed me. Dan and Apollo can both tell you how openly I accepted both of them back into my counsel, and just how alien the idea of holding a grudge is for me. Grudges are just too costly in energy and options to bother with. If I choose not to vote for him at FTC, it will be PURELY because I don't LIKE his game, not because I don't respect it. I am opposed to rewarding the level of cold ruthlessness it takes to pull off a game like his, even while I can admire the artistry. It's like fire: a thing of beauty to behold, but I'm not about to pump a bellows to let it spread. I have to live in these woods, afterall, and I'd really like to come back for another tour. Basically, Trip is pulling off a perfect 2nd place game. And that's exactly the reward I will try to give him, should he arrive at FTC on Sunday. |
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| Romeo | Aug 5 2013, 07:43 PM Post #107 |
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Apollo, I can agree with that if you classify that as a form of bullying. Trip was very much a micro-manager style of player. I realized that when he explained the Max boot back at Bonsai. He NEEDED it to be his way or the highway. Max, very beautifully put - but again, I find your reasoning curious. I don't hold to the opinion that you have to like how someone played to reward them, because I understand inherently that this is an individual game. For me, I look at Trip and see a player that has implemented a strategy that has worked perfectly thus far - that's the most important thing to me. I try to understand his point of view and thought process and judge him solely on how he set out to play the game and what he accomplished. My own idea of how I'd like the game to be played, or how I would play it myself - not that important. I'm not Trip. So judging him based off my own point of view and biases is unfair. I don't treat the real world that way, and i don't treat Survivor that way. Trip played HIS game for HIM, and his resume is impressive. If he set out to accomplish A,B and C, and did so, than that's what matters most. If he owns up to his game and outlines it in detail, it's not my job as a juror to project my own criteria on him. Just like a juror in the judicial system - it's the facts that matter, not the personal opinions or biases. Again, that's my opinion on the matter and the role of choosing a victor. Your vote is just as important as mine and you are entitled completely to your own reasoning. If Trip lost, he would have deserved to lose. I will always hold to that tenant of this game. You make it to the FTC and lose - you deserve that. |
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| Maximus | Aug 5 2013, 08:02 PM Post #108 |
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There is no particular thing that you've just said that I disagree with. It's only the conclusion that we disagree on, and you know what? That's a good thing. The fact that we have very different perspectives is going to make this a highly charged and entertaining FTC, should Trip survive long enough to be subjected to it. And I'm really looking forward to Sunday because of that.
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| Westley | Aug 5 2013, 08:07 PM Post #109 |
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max you are so fucking poetic
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| Romeo | Aug 5 2013, 08:09 PM Post #110 |
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Agreed. Going back to what Apollo said a few days ago - this has been a highly enjoyable Jury experience. Y'all have been great, and I've loved the activity, dialogue and strategic differences. It's been highly entertaining, and I can only imagine that Brobst is highly enjoying it. And to think - we were all placed on an original tribe together. No wonder we were a cluster. Look at all the Chiefs! I will be very, very curious to see who our tribe was comprised of... |
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| Maximus | Aug 5 2013, 08:17 PM Post #111 |
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Wes, I prefer the term "poetical" or "bullshit artist". |
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| Daniel | Aug 5 2013, 09:45 PM Post #112 |
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Wonderfully put, Max. I couldn't have said it better himself. There is no way I could reward his style of gameplay. No way. Also, going back to the Russell comparison, there are some similarities, but also some major differences. I actually think Russell should have won Samoa (not Heroes vs. Villains - I don't think anyone thinks that). Russell actually stuck with his original tribe all the way to the end. He didn't flip and flop. All the moves he made post-merge, he made because he absolutely HAD to. Going in with an 8-4 disadvantage and to get to the Final 3 with 3 other of your own tribe-mates? Impressive. Sure, he had hidden immunity idols. Sure, he stabbed people in the back. But he played a dirty game because he had to (again, I am only talking about Samoa here). Trip, on the other hand, could have made the Final 4 in several different ways. But he chose the dirtiest path - on purpose. While I respect the difficulty in doing that, it's something I can not condone. And something I can not vote for in the end. |
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| Romeo | Aug 5 2013, 10:02 PM Post #113 |
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First, it's only dirty from YOUR perspective. Maybe he had an end game alliance with Atreyu and Rose and we never knew about it? Does that not change your whole perspective? It's unlikely, but who knows. I think calling someones game "dirty" is a cop-out in some senses. We don't have a omniprescient view of things, and thus, cannot, at this time, know what Trip was doing or his motives for doing it. It's just educated speculation. And Russell DESERVED to lose Samoa. If you make it to the end and the jury does not reward you - you didn't deserve to win. I strongly believe that. Everything that came before that doesn't matter but only as much as the jurors care about it. Russell didn't need to make promises and swear on religion to people - he could have just lied. He went further and for that, and his lack of hubris at FTC, he lost. That's his failure. He deserved it. |
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| Apollo | Aug 5 2013, 10:10 PM Post #114 |
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I couldn't agree more Romeo I can't wait to see Bonsai unmasked.
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| Apollo | Aug 5 2013, 10:29 PM Post #115 |
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I don't know...it seems pretty dirty from my perspective too. In the end its all about our individual perspectives. From your perspective Trip played an admirable game that you feel should be rewarded...from my perspective I don't see it that way. From where I am sitting I do not see how my views are any less flawed than yours. I feel I have a pretty good idea of what Trips game was a simple divide and conquer. I do not believe that Trips ultimate goal was to make it to the end with Rose and Atreyu I think that is just how it played out. Rose and Atreyu could have been anyone that worked into his plan. Trip wasn't the only one that voted me out...Wes, Atreyu and Rose all had a hand in it and I harbor no ill will towards them. The difference? They didn't make it personal...Trip was the only one that took the time to do that. Believe me he knows me well enough to know he will not be getting my vote. |
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| Romeo | Aug 5 2013, 10:34 PM Post #116 |
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And that's fine. That wasn't my point though. My point is you are mad because you felt your relationship with him was personal - but if it wasn't that way to him, than you are just projecting your own emotions on to him. I get it - you own your vote. I was using YOUR in a universal sense to Dan. We all have our opinions, and if you are physically unable to vote for Trip in the end, that's all well and good. Our votes count the same. I am just explaining my own thought process and outlook. The man screwed me over probably harder than any of y'all, and I'm not happy about it, but I can take a step back, remove my own ego, and say - well done. I screwed my own game, we all did, and Trip was th player to take advantage of our own lapses. Good on him. It's why he is still there. Randomly, I hope he makes F3 - I think his Fallen Comrades would be very telling. |
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| Romeo | Aug 5 2013, 10:47 PM Post #117 |
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My horrible, not entirely coherent analogy. You meet a woman out at a bar. She's great. She's humorous and charming and engaging. The conversation is electric. You feel a chemistry, a bond. A genuine connection. You get her number and set up a time to see each other again. You text. You take her out to dinner, and again, it's magic. You even get a kiss at the end of the night. You're on Cloud Nine. There's no where this relationship can go but up. But it doesn't. She just wants to be friends. She didn't feel the same chemistry or electricity or bond. Now, was she using you? Is it her fault that your relationship didn't work out? In some ways - yeah. But that's life. In absolutely zero relationship, of any kind, in life or Survivor, is there a guarantee of reciprocation. The girl didn't want to be with you - that's her choice to make. You can't harbor ill will or resentment towards her for making it. It's her life. And so, it's Trip's game. If he didn't want to work with me any longer than he did - alright. Sucks for me, but, okay. I should have read the signs better. Unless Trip made promises on his virtual kids and swore on religion - none of which I would think he did or would do - than I just don't agree with any assessment of his game being dirty. These are words. Those are the tools we are given in this game. That's it. And because of that, it's very easy to project or impose your own Id on the words of others. And even if you felt a deep sense of betrayal - again - it's just words. He didn't shake your hand. He didn't look you in the eyes and swear on his grandmother. He typed. Just like a lot of you did with me, and like a lot of you did with other players throughout the game. It just so happened, we were on the losing end of it. And while that sucks, I have no false illusions or romanticized notion of Trip and I's relationship. A lot can happen and be said and done before the FTC, and your vote is your own and however you cast it - it will be 100% right for you. I'm loving the debate. |
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| Daniel | Aug 5 2013, 10:48 PM Post #118 |
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Executive Summary: Trip screwed us all over. We all think Trip screwed us over the worst. Some of us will still vote for Trip. Many of us will not vote for Trip. Okay - glad that's settled. |
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| Westley | Aug 5 2013, 10:50 PM Post #119 |
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this whole conversation is great. I think it's funny how everyone's so fixated on trip lol |
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| Romeo | Aug 5 2013, 10:56 PM Post #120 |
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Considering we are all Bonsai - and Trip is the only player left in the game all of us really had a relationship at various stages - it makes sense. But I get what you're saying. It gets lost in the focus - but I am most impressed by Atreyu's game. I was happy to hear you were on the same page with me on that Wes. I think his game is really underappreciated or overlooked in here. |
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