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~ WELCOME TO THE JURY HOUSE, TRIP! ~
Topic Started: Aug 6 2013, 10:16 PM (672 Views)
Maximus
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Trip,Aug 7 2013
12:31:26 AM
Maximus,Aug 7 2013
12:24:59 AM
That makes sense, since that was Wes' strategy as well. It's one of the reasons I knew he was eventually going to turn on me.

So, about that Saturday night. My freak-out wasn't when I turned on you. My freak-out was when I turned on Apollo WITH you. You played on that fear of mine brilliantly, btw. If I had waited until I had a chance to talk to Laurie rather than immediately going to Wes with you, you'd have been gone that Sunday. I fully accept my fault in that, and fully applaud your manipulation of me. Very well done, man!

Thanks. But I didn't want to vote you out. I wanted to go with you to final two. I wanted to vote out Apollo so I would know you were really with me and not with them.

Of course, but you have to realize how it looked at the time. When someone is playing both sides against each other, it makes it pretty much impossible to trust you. I'm not paranoid by nature - my reaction was predictable, as was the likelihood that I'd hear about what you were telling Apollo. It was a dangerous gambit that paid off only because Apollo was still nervous about me, and the fact that Laurie asked me to lay low. If I hadn't, Apollo and I would almost certainly have worked things out. Rose was pretty sincere about wanting to avoid a tie that night, so it wouldn't have even come down to that.
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Trip
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Apollo,Aug 7 2013
12:33:05 AM
At that point I really did want the 5 to stay together. Namely because that offered me the most options at that point. I knew me and Dan were solid. I knew that Dan and Laurie were solid (and Laurie had kind of excepted the fact that Dan and I were a package deal). At the point (STUPIDLY) I still felt confident in Trip and I was getting closer to you Max day by day.

That's why when Trip wanted me to say I would go after you at F8 I tried to steer him away from that. I think I did it by telling him I thought F7 or F6 would be a better time to go after you...but in fact I intended to go to the F5 and then decide which way was the best way to go.

That's why I couldn't allow you both to stay in the game. I don't like being at the mercy of other players.
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Trip
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Maximus,Aug 7 2013
12:36:59 AM
Of course, but you have to realize how it looked at the time. When someone is playing both sides against each other, it makes it pretty much impossible to trust you. I'm not paranoid by nature - my reaction was predictable, as was the likelihood that I'd hear about what you were telling Apollo. It was a dangerous gambit that paid off only because Apollo was still nervous about me, and the fact that Laurie asked me to lay low. If I hadn't, Apollo and I would almost certainly have worked things out. Rose was pretty sincere about wanting to avoid a tie that night, so it wouldn't have even come down to that.

Rose was actually begging me to force a tie that round. Rose and Wes were actually. They knew you all were tight and they knew they'd be picked off one by one if you outnumbered them. I'm pretty sure Rose would have forced that tie even if Apollo and Dan didn't vote for you.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have made the move. I made sure I had a base tie before I acted. Part of that move was going to Wes and saying "Apollo wants to vote Max out at F7. This is our chance to turn Max on Apollo." That's the first message I sent before I even said anything to you about it. Rose and Atreyu knew what was going down. That was their big chance to get back into the game... at least that's the way I was preaching it. I actually would have voted them out with you if things went smoothly.

I also realized it was a risk, but it was a calculated one. I knew I was going to play this game big or not at all... and I wasn't playing for fifth place, so I was going to try to split you up one way or another regardless.
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Apollo
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Trip,Aug 7 2013
12:29:12 AM
What you didn't realize is Lucy had a final three agreement with Buttercup and Rose that started on day two.  Buttercup was playing you.  I tried to tell you that and you just wouldn't listen.  Dan tried to tell you that, and you just wouldn't listen.  I still have no clue why Lucy agreed to  vote Buttercup out.  I thought we'd be making that move without her.

Rose straight up told me Buttercup was playing you, but no matter how hard I tried to explain it to you, you wanted to protect her.  Things changed at the merge.  People had plans from before tribes were even formed and we had to adapt, but you were still stuck in a plan that was dead out the gate.  Buttercup and Rose actually offered me final four with Lucy at one point.  You weren't going to be able to infiltrate the "Lucy" group... unless you wanted to get voted out at 6.  Lucy was tighter to Romeo than to you.  Hell, she was even tighter with Atreyu.

If you had stuck with me and Dan on that vote and not ratted me out, I would have probably stuck with you and Dan.  But you didn't.  So I had to take the first offer I was given.

What you don't understand is I KNEW about the Buttercup/Rose/Lucy thing. Both Buttercup and Lucy had told me about it. Atreyu even hinted at it. I also knew that Lucy and Buttercup were not as sure about it as they had been originally. I wasn't looking to work with Buttercup long term...trust me. Me and Atreyu discussed that a lot.

Rose was clueless Trip. Sure she thought Buttercup was straight up playing me. She also thought I orchestrated the whole Buttercup then Marion then Lucy vote too (HELLO...not me).

I knew Lucy wanted BC gone...she told me. Matter of fact she told me (in a rather tipsy message) that SHE was the one that flipped the whole thing on Buttercup the night before she was voted out.

So I knew if Rose was that clueless and Lucy was willing to vote out BC...why the were we so concerned with getting rid of BC? I just thought it was the wrong move at that moment in the game. But no one would listen to me they just saw it as me wanting to protect BC. Which was not the case. I was trying to protect me.
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Trip
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Lucy was delusional that night in her drunkeness. Lucy wasn't even there. Westley and I were talking about how the vote was going to be for Laurie. Max and Laurie still thought it was for Buttercup. Lucy is the one that put Buttercup's name out there the FIRST time... to save Romeo. Before it got changed to Laurie. As of that night, Lucy was still voting for Laurie. I sent her a message asking her to change her vote, which she didn't read and drunkenly respond to until much later that night, after Daniel and I had already discussed changing it back to Buttercup.

Daniel never liked changing it to Laurie in the first place. It was a lot of discussions between me and Daniel that got the ball rolling on the Buttercup vote, not Lucy, who wasn't even around. I did not make that move with Lucy. I made it with Daniel.

You also trusted Lucy too much. Lucy told me that she and Rose were tight. Lucy pretty much told me you were annoying her. Lucy would have had you out of that game in a round or two. She wanted final three with me and Romeo... me and Rose... Rose and Atreyu... but not you. You weren't a part of Lucy's plans. As much as you might have known about that alliance, you didn't realize how much Lucy and Rose were tight. You wouldn't listen to us. You just kept saying you had everything under control... but you didn't.
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Apollo
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FYI Lucy also talk to me about getting rid of you as soon as possible. That's a fact. Lucy and I got along really well before the tribes were selected (I downplayed that a bit). My first message from Buttercup was telling me how Lucy told her she should talk to me if we ended up on the same tribe.

Further proof that I am not as clueless as you might think...look at you screening room. Rose's little BWA :) comment...that is the "secret alliance" with Rose/BC/Lucy. Rose is still playing up to that...pandering to the ponderosa member's (WTF??)...do you really think I worried that much about Rose?
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Apollo
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Lucy was always a "wild card"...I knew that. What I didn't know was what a wild card you were.
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Westley
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Maximus,Aug 7 2013
12:24:59 AM
That makes sense, since that was Wes' strategy as well. It's one of the reasons I knew he was eventually going to turn on me.

So, about that Saturday night. My freak-out wasn't when I turned on you. My freak-out was when I turned on Apollo WITH you. You played on that fear of mine brilliantly, btw. If I had waited until I had a chance to talk to Laurie rather than immediately going to Wes with you, you'd have been gone that Sunday. I fully accept my fault in that, and fully applaud your manipulation of me. Very well done, man!

Max I should have made this clearer to you - going back into the game I never intended to vote for you down the road. I was actually banking on you to be a solid ally. the flip flop strategy takes 2 votes. that's what was so appealing about trip to me. I think he caught onto that pretty quickly. you might have even clued him into that
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Trip
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Lucy was playing everybody. Why do you think I targeted her. Lucy had more friends believing more lies than I ever did in this game. I know all about their alliance. Lucy forwarded me messages from them. Of course Lucy wanted me out. She also was promising me final two. Atreyu was also tighter with Rose than he was to you. She kept telling me that from the start. She kept calling Atreyu her BFF. I didn't believe her, because Atreyu always brilliantly played it off, but look what happened tonight. They have been a pair for a long time. And why do you think Lucy refused to target Rose the night of the double boot? Everyone was going to vote Rose, but Lucy swept in to save the day.

The bottom line is I sent you a massive message updating you on everything I knew like 5 seconds after the merge. You kept telling me one was coming, but I got nothing substantial for two days. You kept saying it's because you knew we were tight so you had to take care of everyone else first, but I was getting radio silence from you while very important stuff was going on... so I was forced to make decisions on my own.
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Trip
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Apollo,Aug 7 2013
01:06:12 AM
Lucy was always a "wild card"...I knew that. What I didn't know was what a wild card you were.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And I obviously wasn't going to tell people.
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Maximus
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OK, as much as it's perfectly understandable for tonight to be The Trip Show, when you guys come down off the rush of tonight's vote, I'd love to hear Trip's opinions about those who remain. Strengths, weaknesses, effectiveness of their strategies, etc. When you're ready, Trip. :)
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Apollo
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Trip,Aug 7 2013
01:09:23 AM
The bottom line is I sent you a massive message updating you on everything I knew like 5 seconds after the merge. You kept telling me one was coming, but I got nothing substantial for two days. You kept saying it's because you knew we were tight so you had to take care of everyone else first, but I was getting radio silence from you while very important stuff was going on... so I was forced to make decisions on my own.

You are right about that but there is more to that story that cant be revealed until after the game. All I can say is the timing was really bad for me then and you were not the only one I was neglecting. That was my bad.

You knew that I was loyal though. Sure I know you knew I would pick Dan over you if given the chance but you knew I was loyal to you as well. As a matter of fact you counted on it in order to take me out.

You almost took me out with a total blindside at F8...thankfully Max opened my eyes at that point. How did I repay him...I voted him out fearing a tie. Knew that was a mistake as soon as I did it.



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Apollo
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Maximus,Aug 7 2013
01:16:26 AM
OK, as much as it's perfectly understandable for tonight to be The Trip Show, when you guys come down off the rush of tonight's vote, I'd love to hear Trip's opinions about those who remain. Strengths, weaknesses, effectiveness of their strategies, etc. When you're ready, Trip. :)

Yes I agree. I have said my peace and got my satisfaction. So dish the details on the F3 because we have a big decision to make here on the New Bonsai tribe. :)
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Trip
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Rose... She's good at knowing how to sell particular people. For instance, she knew how to keep Laurie on her side tonight... she knew exactly how to appeal to her. She knew how to get me worried about you guys having a final four plan... which is what got me thinking to target Apollo in the first place. With Laurie, she appeals to emotions. With me, she appealed to mutual benefit and logic. I think that is a very good quality that she has. She also was able to disappear off the face of the planet after being blindsided twice... once with the Buttercup vote, and then another time with the Lucy vote. Whereas Romeo kept pushing to be in control, making him a threat, she just played the helpless victim card, and it kept the target off of her back. She's a realist. She understands the game. She knows it's not really about loyalty and honesty, but she also stayed loyal to Atreyu the entire game... out of mutual interest. I respect her game, but I also have to say she is pretty transparent. When Rose is not on your side, you know it. I never trusted her the entire time I worked with her, because it was obvious she wasn't with me for the long haul. She hasn't made any big moves. She's just latched onto other people's... and half of them failed. She was on the wrong side of the numbers for most of the game... and I honestly think it was Atreyu that saved her.

Atreyu... damn good player. He, like Rose, was able to keep the target off of his back. The difference is he more actively looked for support and set up alliances of his own. He wasn't one to make big moves either, but he made himself useful and available so that when others needed a vote, he was there. He is very logical, and very smart. He understands every aspect of this game and when he lies to you, you believe him... at least I did. Rose and Laurie owe it to Atreyu that he was able to get that alliance up and running and conceal it while really selling that he had nothing to do with Rose or Laurie at all. Although I think Rose had Wes fooled, whereas Atreyu had me fooled. So they maybe should take equal credit. The thing is Atreyu also seemed to have Apollo fooled. He was never actually working with Apollo. He laid that on the line with me right up front. He was with Rose and Buttercup all the way. They even told me they mentioned Apollo's name to me at the merge to get me on their side because they assumed I was with Apollo (they being Buttercup and Atreyu). I think Atreyu was really Buttercup's number one in this game. When she got voted out, Atreyu had to look for another in. I just think Atreyu is really subtly brilliant.

Laurie... Not a fan. If you are a fan of the whole loyalty/honesty thing, she is the player for you. I've never seen her make a rational move... or really any move. I've seen her go along with other people's moves... usually the people she thinks are her loyal allies. She isn't very adaptable. She kind of puts herself into boxes by not being willing work with those she doesn't trust. She's good at winning challenges. Maybe there are things about her I've missed. But she totally got used by Rose and Atreyu. It got her final three, so good for her in that regard, but even she knows they don't plan on taking her to the end.
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Apollo,Aug 7 2013
01:21:35 AM
You are right about that but there is more to that story that cant be revealed until after the game. All I can say is the timing was really bad for me then and you were not the only one I was neglecting. That was my bad.

You knew that I was loyal though. Sure I know you knew I would pick Dan over you if given the chance but you knew I was loyal to you as well. As a matter of fact you counted on it in order to take me out.

You almost took me out with a total blindside at F8...thankfully Max opened my eyes at that point. How did I repay him...I voted him out fearing a tie. Knew that was a mistake as soon as I did it.

Well that's fine. Obviously real life comes first, but you have to understand where I'm coming from. During those two days, I committed to things. I couldn't just do things your way because I thought you'd be loyal to me. Like you had a thing with Buttercup, I had a thing with other people as well. We were struggling for position. Lot's of moves I made during that time, I probably would have done differently if I had gotten more info from you... so you can't really blame me for not putting my game on pause because you weren't around, and you can't really blame me for not wanting to undo everything I set up just because you came back.

That said, if things worked out the way you wanted at that point, you and Dan would have been F2. I would have been F3. I took a risk and tried to shake things up. I got F4. So one place difference, and I gave it my all, so I still stand by my moves. And then when you had the thing with Max/Laurie/Dan*Trip and you wanted to make a decision at F5. Hell, if you chose them over me, I actually just moved up one slot. LOL.

But it's all good. I think we are all going to learn a lot of things we didn't know when confessionals open up.
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