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~ WELCOME TO THE JURY HOUSE, LAURIE! ~
Topic Started: Aug 8 2013, 10:55 PM (488 Views)
Trip
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Maximus,Aug 9 2013
12:55:16 AM
I didn't specifically tell hm to do that, but I did (unwittingly) imply it. I told him that the numbers were close and that I thought that they were on our side. Basically, I was pissed at his betrayal and was trying to rub his nose in it, a little. (In reality, I was a lot MORE pissed at my own gullibility, but that's beside the point)

As soon as I realized that he was playing all four of us, I figured he wasn't going to abide by any deal. And, frankly, I was in full-disclosure mode that the time. I was coming clean with him and Wes at the same time, letting them know that I knew what they were up to and that there would be a price to be paid for it. It was a mistake - obviously, and a fatal one at that - and I take full responsibility.

But I never even suggested it was him at F8. That was his own extrapolation. It was supposed to be Wes because that's what we were all saying.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why it was such a bad thing to tell him that, when all four of us knew he was playing us. I see the results, but I'm not 100% clear on why it mattered so much. He was screwing us. What did it matter what he thought of us turning the tables on him?

Actually, your exact words were "your best bet at this point is to force a tie."
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Apollo
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Trip,Aug 9 2013
12:51:32 AM
Would Dan have allowed me to get to final three without Laurie?

You would have to ask Dan that...I think Dan and I would have discussed it and made the choice we felt was best for us. With that in mind I would have pushed for you over Laurie because I would have felt you would have been more likely to take me to the end than Laurie would have.

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Daniel
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Trip,Aug 9 2013
12:51:32 AM
Would Dan have allowed me to get to final three without Laurie?

My ideal Final 3 was with Apollo and Laurie. Both would have taken me the Final 2.

But I was worried about what would happen at F4 if it was me, Apollo, Laurie, Max - I did not want a 2v2 showdown, especially if I didn't have immunity around my neck. So I probably would have wanted to vote out Max at F5. And then Trip at Final 4. That is what I was thinking, anyway.
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Laurie
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Yeah Romeo, for me - that pecking order list we saw going around, when I jumped above you - I don't recall where it came from, but it was concern that you were ok as long as you weren't next. Then Wes told me that you were going to vote for me. Then you told me you were going to vote for me.... And by that time I was all locked in with Apollo and trip as 4 and 5.

We probably can both share the blame on that one - otherwise we could have had some real fun.
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Trip
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Laurie,Aug 9 2013
12:57:52 AM
I don't think you got a bad rap, trip. I will tell you that rose and Atreyu couldn't stand you.... As evidenced by the fit rose threw in the F4 TC.

I think people just were unsure of where your loyalties were. And that's not necessarily a bad thing,

That's what they told you. They also told me how much you needed to go. They were playing us against each other. Good strategy.

That's not my point. My point is, I was called, over and over again, in the game, and in the jury house, disloyal, dishonest, etc...

but none of my alliances that I so-called "betrayed" actually ever wanted to take me to the end.
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Trip
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Daniel,Aug 9 2013
01:00:48 AM
My ideal Final 3 was with Apollo and Laurie. Both would have taken me the Final 2.

But I was worried about what would happen at F4 if it was me, Apollo, Laurie, Max - I did not want a 2v2 showdown, especially if I didn't have immunity around my neck. So I probably would have wanted to vote out Max at F5. And then Trip at Final 4. That is what I was thinking, anyway.

Looks like I'm vindicated again.
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Maximus
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Trip,Aug 9 2013
12:58:38 AM
Maximus,Aug 9 2013
12:55:16 AM
I didn't specifically tell hm to do that, but I did (unwittingly) imply it. I told him that the numbers were close and that I thought that they were on our side. Basically, I was pissed at his betrayal and was trying to rub his nose in it, a little. (In reality, I was a lot MORE pissed at my own gullibility, but that's beside the point)

As soon as I realized that he was playing all four of us, I figured he wasn't going to abide by any deal. And, frankly, I was in full-disclosure mode that the time. I was coming clean with him and Wes at the same time, letting them know that I knew what they were up to and that there would be a price to be paid for it. It was a mistake - obviously, and a fatal one at that - and I take full responsibility.

But I never even suggested it was him at F8. That was his own extrapolation. It was supposed to be Wes because that's what we were all saying.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why it was such a bad thing to tell him that, when all four of us knew he was playing us. I see the results, but I'm not 100% clear on why it mattered so much. He was screwing us. What did it matter what he thought of us turning the tables on him?

Actually, your exact words were "your best bet at this point is to force a tie."

.............

That's not what I remember, but honestly, that whole day was a blur. You may be right, Trip, I might have said that. If I did, I can only imagine I was trying to make up for the fact that I was about to get Wes voted out from under you. Honestly, I was so riddled with guilt that day, I really didn't know where I was projecting it. Although it cost me, Laurie's advice to lay low was probably the best thing I could do at the time.
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Maximus
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Trip,Aug 9 2013
01:01:10 AM
Laurie,Aug 9 2013
12:57:52 AM
I don't think you got a bad rap, trip.  I will tell you that rose and Atreyu couldn't stand you....  As evidenced by the fit rose threw in the F4 TC.

I think people just were unsure of where your loyalties were.  And that's not necessarily a bad thing,

That's what they told you. They also told me how much you needed to go. They were playing us against each other. Good strategy.

That's not my point. My point is, I was called, over and over again, in the game, and in the jury house, disloyal, dishonest, etc...

but none of my alliances that I so-called "betrayed" actually ever wanted to take me to the end.

I'll be honest, Trip, you've worn me down. Your description of your place in the game is strong evidence that you really had no choice but to play the way you did. I still don't like it, but I really do get it. You played the only card you had available to you.
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Daniel
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Maximus,Aug 9 2013
12:55:16 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why it was such a bad thing to tell him that, when all four of us knew he was playing us. I see the results, but I'm not 100% clear on why it mattered so much. He was screwing us. What did it matter what he thought of us turning the tables on him?

Because I think if you would have played your cards right, we might have been able to get Trip to vote with us one more time. And that's all we needed to have the clear 4-3 majority. At that point, it wouldn't have mattered if Trip was playing us - we could have just voted him out then.

But forcing a tie was the worst thing - because you had more previous votes than any except Wes, who had immunity.
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Laurie
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I see your point Trip.

And you know what the craziest thing of all is... If I HADN'T had immunity at F4 - I wouldn't have thought twice. We would have forced the tie.

Immunity allowed me to keep me secret with them. The fear of being voted out would have forced action.

How would you have voted if I didn't have immunity at f4?
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Trip
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I'm thrilled with the way this night went.

I now know that you were all full of shit. You can call me dishonest, disloyal, whatever you want. None of you would have taken me to the end, so I was perfectly right to turn on every single one of you... besides possibly Wes and Romeo.

Apollo wanted me in F3, but not F2, and he would have been under the mercy of Dan and Laurie. The rest of you would have voted me out at F5.

Well, guess what, I got F4!!!

HA!!!!!

You have no reason to call me disloyal or dishonest when you all were going to vote me out earlier than you claimed.
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Apollo
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Trip,Aug 9 2013
01:02:16 AM
Daniel,Aug 9 2013
01:00:48 AM
My ideal Final 3 was with Apollo and Laurie. Both would have taken me the Final 2.

But I was worried about what would happen at F4 if it was me, Apollo, Laurie, Max - I did not want a 2v2 showdown, especially if I didn't have immunity around my neck. So I probably would have wanted to vote out Max at F5. And then Trip at Final 4. That is what I was thinking, anyway.

Looks like I'm vindicated again.

But I would have kicked and screamed over that one Trip....because Me/You/Dan gave me a shot at F2....Me/Dan/Laurie that shot was not nearly as good. Ultimately I would have went with what Dan wanted but I would have fought like hell to keep you because it would have served me best.
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Trip
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Laurie,Aug 9 2013
01:06:41 AM
I see your point Trip.

And you know what the craziest thing of all is... If I HADN'T had immunity at F4 - I wouldn't have thought twice. We would have forced the tie.

Immunity allowed me to keep me secret with them. The fear of being voted out would have forced action.

How would you have voted if I didn't have immunity at f4?

Honestly?

I would have voted for you if either Atreyu or Rose had won immunity, because they said they were voting for you. We'll never know what they really would have done until the game is over. They could have played it either way because they positioned themselves perfectly.

But if I had won, I would have forced a tie with you. I knew they were a pair, and I knew I messed up.

Immunity gives you safety, that's why I would have done it if I won. I was hoping you realized how much power you had that round.
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Maximus
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Daniel,Aug 9 2013
01:06:34 AM
Because I think if you would have played your cards right, we might have been able to get Trip to vote with us one more time. And that's all we needed to have the clear 4-3 majority. At that point, it wouldn't have mattered if Trip was playing us - we could have just voted him out then.

But forcing a tie was the worst thing - because you had more previous votes than any except Wes, who had immunity.

Yeah, I don't believe for a minute that Trip would allow himself to be put in that place, and I didn't believe it at the time, either. He couldn't afford to be 5th in a F7 situation with a solid 4 made up of two (or three) strong pairs. Ask Trip - would he have voted for Wes at that point, putting himself in our hands to dispose of whenever we chose?

Add to that that the tie-breaker was pretty unlikely (though still possible) to be another counted votes thing, and I didn't really see the problem with forcing a tie. Either it would work and our four would have been in control, or it wouldn't. Voting me out guaranteed it wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong, I know it was stupid of me. At the time, though, I figured we were all on the same page.
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Laurie
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I'll play devils advocate. Trip - you still have to make a relationship with them that makes them want to take you.

You kinda just got in bed with a bunch of people. Decided it wasn't comfortable enough, and then tried another one. And another one, and another one.

No one is ever going to take you to f2 like that.

And besides, then you get crabs...
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