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The Delegate President Act [DEFEATED]; To install a President as Head Executive
Topic Started: Aug 28 2013, 10:41 PM (299 Views)
Gillenor
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I would like to submit this act to the Senate for a vote. I feel it would help make our region a lot more democratic and give Government power to the people.

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Naybra
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Gillenor
Aug 28 2013, 05:41 PM
I would like to submit this act to the Senate for a vote. I feel it would help make our region a lot more democratic and give Government power to the people.

I like this proposal. It should probably be stated that this replaces the position of Prime Minister, because this President has basically the same powers, and there is no reason to have both.

How'd you get the letterhead? Do we have a format available?
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Gillenor
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Naybra
Aug 28 2013, 11:07 PM
Gillenor
Aug 28 2013, 05:41 PM
I would like to submit this act to the Senate for a vote. I feel it would help make our region a lot more democratic and give Government power to the people.

I like this proposal. It should probably be stated that this replaces the position of Prime Minister, because this President has basically the same powers, and there is no reason to have both.

How'd you get the letterhead? Do we have a format available?

Thanks! Yeah I think maybe getting rid of Prime Minister might be a good idea, however it will allow for a draw in Government Council votes, plus it might make less work for the President as the Prime Minister could take some of the work.

Also yeah I'll TG you the header.
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Deleted User
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I vote against.
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Gillenor
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Recardian
Aug 28 2013, 11:47 PM
I vote against.

How come?
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Ghant
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Recardian
Aug 28 2013, 06:47 PM
I vote against.

I vote against as well, for several reasons. I will explain when I get off work.
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Asasia
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Will the elected PM become the President?
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Imbrisian
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Undecided. Naybra, if you want the .psd of the letterhead I can send that via TG in five hours when I finish work.
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Ghant
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I vote against, and I encourage you all to as well. But don't simply take my word for it.

For the sake of convenience, I will refer to this act as TDPA, which is the abbreviation of the name.

This legislation is so contrived, patronizing and condescending, that I can bring up 10 reasons why the Senate should vote against it. Brace yourselves!

1.) "The President will act as the head of the Government..."

We have a position that satisfies this already, and that position is called the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the elected head of the government, and their purpose is to:
(i) Acts as the leader of the Senate, and the voice of the Senate in the Regional Government.
(ii) Provides "State of the Region" addresses to the region.
(iii) Has the ability to grant pardons to nations convicted of crimes, at his discretion, and with confirmation from a majority of Regional Government Members.
What TDPA aims to do is to strip the Prime Minister of these responsibilities, and consolidate them with the WA Delegate's responsibilities, which is ALOT of concentrated power. TDPA would erode the system of checks and balances, and distribution of power that currently exists by having the WA Delegate and the Prime Minister exist as distinct positions. Which brings me to point #2.

2.) "The President will also be made the WA Delegate. When a President is elected, it is mandatory that they are made into the WA Delegate of the region."

Again, there ought to be a distinction between the WA Delegate and the Head of the Government. I used to think that they should be one in the same, but now I realize where the distinction lies. The WA Delegate is an administrative position- one that updates the World Factbook, represents the region in the World Assembly, Facilitates many of the administrative functions of the region, etc. The Prime Minister, on the other hand, is the Leader of the Senate, Head of the Government, and Overseer of the Ministers. It is UNFAIR to put all of that unto one individual, and that much power in the hands of one Nation sets a dangerous precedent.

3.) "President will not have a vote unless a draw is made in the vote."

The way the Regional Government is currently set up, the Founder is the one who casts the deciding vote. This is because the Founder is a purely administrative nation that has no democratic mandate to exist in perpetuity. Therefore, the Founder should be as far removed from the decision-making process as possible. As a result, the Founder never votes in Regional Government Votes unless there is a 3-3 tie between the WA Delegate, Prime Minister, and the Ministers of Internal Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Defense and Economics & Trade.

4.) "All WA members in the region are 'encouraged' to endorse the President and anyone who has the WA Delegacy at that time and is not the elected President must 'encourage' people to unendorse them."

Notice how I put emphasis on the word "encourage", which is word used in TDPA. By using the word "encourage", TDPA is basically demanding how WA Nations in Panessos use their endorsements. Do you all like being in regions where you are told how to use your endorsements? I am not, and I would Panessos Nations to have THE FREEDOM to CHOOSE who and who not to endorse. Not be told by the regional government. With that being said, there are other regions that like to tell people who and who not to endorse. The bully and harass WA Nations to endorse someone, or to change their endorsement to someone who they might not want to. Some of those Regions include The New Inquisition, The Black Riders, and the Greater German Reich. Do we want to be like those regions, where the regional government bosses around its WA Nations, and tells them how to use their endorsements? I believe that Nations should endorse whoever they damn well please at any given time.

5.) This opens a whole other can of worms on regulating endorsements, endorsement caps, and all that other associated nonsense. Why do you think that endorsements are there to begin with? It is to decide who will be the WA Delegate. Instead of sidestepping it and creating laws and regulations to keep it under control, it should be used as the legitimate mechanism for deciding who the delegate will be. That would be so much easier, and less of a headache for everyone involved.

6.) "This Act has been made so that only people elected can have the executive power of a WA Delegate, it ensures that the best possible people are able to wield this power, for the good of the region."

That is funny, because in order to become the WA Delegate, one has to be elected by the endorsement system. You might hear the argument, "Nations that are not in the WA cannot endorse". This may be true, but also realize that only Nations that are in the WA can become WA Delegate. That is just how the system works. Nations that are not in the WA can lobby those that are in the WA to endorse or unendorse certain individuals at their own discretion.

7.) Another point must be dedicated to this rhetoric loaded sentence of TDPA: "...Ensures that the best possible people are able to wield this power". So, this legislation and its author do not believe that the WA Nations of Panessos are capable of deciding who the WA Delegate ought to be. This is not the Panessian way. The Panessian way is having total faith and confidence in our Nations to make the best possible decisions in terms of Regional leadership. Nations have endorsed me because they feel as though I am the best and most capable person for the job. Shouldn't that be enough? Of course not, argues TDPA. Lets add ANOTHER LAYER of voting beyond that.

8.) "This Act also ensures that someone irresponsible does not get Executive power as it can be easy for people to gain Delegate status by accident."

This is head over heels my favorite part of TDPA, and the part that sticks in my craw the most. The author and TDPA believes that WA Nations in our region are stupid, and do not know what the endorsement system is for, and how it is used. This is not some feeder region full of noobs, or a "training region". This region is full of knowledgeable, veteran NS players, who know EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. There is not a nation among you who would endorse, let alone allow an unqualified nation, to become WA Delegate "by accident". This part of TDPA is an absolute disgrace and an insult to every nation in Panessos.

9.) "When a President is elected, it is mandatory that they are made into the WA Delegate of the region."

Now there is a fun word- mandatory. As it stands, the WA Delegate oversees various administrative functions of the region, and the Prime Minister oversees governmental functions of the region. Those powers should remain separate. Instead, TDPA aims to eliminate the significance of the Prime Minister position, and shove those responsibilities unto the WA Delegate. Or, you could argue that the Prime Minister would have the responsibilities of the WA Delegate shoved unto them. Let us not cram responsibilities down people's throats- lets spread the power around. TDPA would load it all unto the shoulders of one person.

10.) The WA Delegate is naturally decided by endorsements. This system is MORE FREE AND MORE FAIR then a ballot vote, because it ensures that the WA Delegate can change at ANY GIVEN TIME. All one has to do is unendorse the WA Delegate and endorse someone else, and convince someone else to do it. THIS IS NOT THAT HARD TO DO. Let that system stand on its own merits, and as NationStates intended. There is no fear of WA Delegate shenanigans, because we are a password protected region. We will not get raided, subverted, or otherwise be threatened with any such hostile action. The current system is fine, because it is the most effective and efficient style of government on NationStates. Lets keep it that way- if its not broken, do not fix it.
Beyond those 10 points, let me just say this. I have been on and off NationStates for 10 years now. I know how to set up and run a region. This legislation ultimately effects me. It would dump government responsibilities on me that I do not want, and would rather have a Prime Minister in place to be the head of government. TDPA ultimately subjects nations who have endorsed me into an unfair position of having to have their endorsements regulated. It would undermine the endorsement system and subvert it for a ballot vote, which is unnecessary.

Originally, my plan when establishing Panessos with Gillenor was to have the WA Delegate serve as the President, but then I realized how much this takes away from an optimal democratic government and would concentrate power onto one person, which is not fair, and is undemocratic. I will not be your tyrant, overlord, or Administrator / Executive Chief. All I want to do is represent Panessos in the World Assembly, update the factbook, build embassies, and ensure freedom and fairness in the region.

I am 25 years old, and I have a Masters Degree in Political Science. I have spent many years of my life being a champion of designing democratic systems and organizations. I feel as though the current system would be better then the one that TDPA seeks to impose upon Panessos. This legislation is absolute bunk.

I have spent the past hour writing a 4 page response to this legislation, beseeching you all to understand my logic and reasoning. I not only poured my mind into these words, but also my heart. With that said, hear this- if this legislation is approved by the Senate, I will respect and accept that outcome. However, please be aware that I will resign my position and leave the region. I will not personally be party to such a monstrosity of a law.

Panessos deserves better then this. Vote against this legislation, and lets get on to more important things.

-Sincerely,

Ghant, Co-Founder of Panessos
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Loufe
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Panelysian Senate Opposition Foreman

I don't see why not. It seems more democratic than just appointing someone as WA Delegate.
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Imbrisian
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Now that I'm home and not at work...

I vote against and completely agree with Ghant's reasons. Too much power consolidation not only means potential for unregulated abuse (at some point) but also twice the workload and potentially two times less efficiency at either role. We all have lives away from the game, this feels like too much burden being placed on one individual.

We are also a democracy; we should choose if we want to endorse. Yes, the word 'encourage' was used but that still feels dirty to say, it's like saying we have all the freedom in the world, then in small print adding (but we'd like it if you did what we told you to).

In summary, I vote no. This also should've been a poll topic, lol.
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Asasia
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Due to statements by several other members, Asasia votes Against.
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Ghant
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Loufe
Aug 29 2013, 02:41 AM
I don't see why not. It seems more democratic than just appointing someone as WA Delegate.

The way it is right now is more democratic then what TDPA proposes. Any WA Nation can lose or become Delegate at any given time. The pressure is always on the WA Delegate to execute their duties of office fairly and justly, otherwise they can lose that delegacy at a moments notice. All it takes is for someone to unendorse them and then endorse someone else.

Nobody gets "appointed" as WA Delegate. There is a voting and election system already in place, i.e. "endorsements". This is why when someone becomes WA Delegate, it says that they were "elected WA Delegate".
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Loufe
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Panelysian Senate Opposition Foreman

So what you're saying is that I could become WA Delegate with the right amount of endorsements?

:) Lol.
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Ghant
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Loufe
Aug 29 2013, 10:11 AM
So what you're saying is that I could become WA Delegate with the right amount of endorsements?

:) Lol.

Yes you could. Any WA Nation could.
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