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Panessos Constitution [ABANDONED]
Topic Started: Sep 7 2013, 08:50 PM (1,275 Views)
Gillenor
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One problem with Article VIII Section 8.02 is that some Nations can't or wont provide that for their Citizens, for example Teneus wont.

I also dont agree with the regional courts section, Panessos Services is a good way to to judge things.
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Nerod
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Emperor of the GNNE.

I really liked our Constitution, but I have one issue in the IX Article. I think we should say the necessary percentage to make an amendment.
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Naybra
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Minister of Internal Affairs

Gillenor
Sep 15 2013, 04:00 PM
One problem with Article VIII Section 8.02 is that some Nations can't or wont provide that for their Citizens, for example Teneus wont.

I also dont agree with the regional courts section, Panessos Services is a good way to to judge things.

According to 8.01.D: "Nations not associated with the Regional Government are not subject to its laws". This means nations don't have to follow any of the laws (including Citizen's Rights) established by the Senate. In return though, the cannot participate in the Regional Government.

As for the courts, the Prime Minister presides and Senators form the jury. This ensures that an elected official is in the seat and is not hidden under a mask. All the Prime Minister will do is select the punishment if the defendant is found guilty. He doesn't have a say here, but may pardon the defendant according to Section 3.01.A.IV.

Nerod
Sep 15 2013, 05:15 PM
I really liked our Constitution, but I have one issue in the IX Article. I think we should say the necessary percentage to make an amendment.

I totally forgot about that. I believe 2/3 (67%) is a good number.
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Gillenor
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Naybra
Sep 16 2013, 02:09 AM
Gillenor
Sep 15 2013, 04:00 PM
One problem with Article VIII Section 8.02 is that some Nations can't or wont provide that for their Citizens, for example Teneus wont.

I also dont agree with the regional courts section, Panessos Services is a good way to to judge things.

According to 8.01.D: "Nations not associated with the Regional Government are not subject to its laws". This means nations don't have to follow any of the laws (including Citizen's Rights) established by the Senate. In return though, the cannot participate in the Regional Government.

As for the courts, the Prime Minister presides and Senators form the jury. This ensures that an elected official is in the seat and is not hidden under a mask. All the Prime Minister will do is select the punishment if the defendant is found guilty. He doesn't have a say here, but may pardon the defendant according to Section 3.01.A.IV.


Then I'm afraid I dont agree with this Contitution, and as founder I pretty much have to approve it.

Dont get me wrong, if everyone likes it then by all means I'll approve it, I just think having the Prime Minister as Judge is a bad idea, Government and Court should be seperate.
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Imbrisian
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To be honest I didn't read the entire thing, ;).

But having read everyone's deliberations on the matter, I concur with Gillenor. Division for administering justice is required for Imbrisian endorsement of this constitution.

Panessos Services is a good intermediary but I'd like a specific nation to have items of justice delegated to, perhaps under a new Ministry position. Alternatively, we could have a triumvirate to serve justice across the region.

In any case, Aeterna Imbris cannot support this constitution unless rectifications on the matter of administration of justice is settled and separate from key governmental positions.
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Nerod
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Emperor of the GNNE.

The Emperor just sent his decision on this matter:
I, Don Pedrokus Nerod, won't approve this Constitution until some changes are made.
1-Necessary percentage to make an amendment.
2-Article VIII: After some serious discussion with my Cabinet I noticed that my Empire won't fit the requirements established in Article 8.02. If you don't change that my Empire will have to back away and look for a better place for the GNNE.
3-In the GNNE the Emperor is the Supreme Judge and he has lots of judges to help him, but this isn't my Empire. This is a democracy, and I think the Executive power shouldn not be the same as Justice.
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Gillenor
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Now the problem with Naybra's Court section is that you're giving one person too much power.

You see, Government has three sections, Legislative, Executive and Judiciary. Now what you really want is these three sections to overall be quite separate.

Posted Image

Now currently, in our system, the Legislative (Senate) and the Executive (Ministries) are VERY linked, which isn't so bad and is how the UK actually works. However the last thing you want is the Judiciary being connected to the Legislative and the Executive, because it allows for some people to have a lot of power.

Someone like Asasia, who is leader of the Executive AND the Legislative, shouldn't be given the power of the Judiciary because it allows for too much power. No offence Asasia, I know you'd do an amazing job and would never abuse your power.

However a good example from history of this happening is Adolf Hitler, who took control of all three parts.

Posted Image

I would suggest maybe making founder the leader of the Judiciary, as the Founder only is part of the Legislative and not the Executive.
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Ghant
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I am not a fan. I believe that the judicial composition should be consolidated into one individual, the Chief Justice, which serves anonymously. And the citizens rights part should be stricken from this proposal. The point of the regional constitution is to establish a framework upon which the region shall operate. NOT to interfere with how a Nation operates internally, or how a player RPs his national policies. The Constitution needs to be OOC and not IC.
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Deleted User
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In my opinion, the courts should be decided by an elective body, like the Senate. Perhaps we should institute a judicial House of Representatives? This way, things can be solved without bias.
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Gillenor
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My proposal is that the Founder has no say in the Executive branch, and is made chief Justice of the Judiciary. That way we have an independent Judiciary.
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Deleted User
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This is what my plan would look like

Posted Image

This way, power is easily distributed between the people.
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Gillenor
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Recardian
Sep 16 2013, 11:03 PM
This is what my plan would look like

This way, power is easily distributed between the people.

Well no, all we need is a Chief Justice.

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Naybra
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Minister of Internal Affairs

Gillenor
Sep 16 2013, 06:09 PM
Recardian
Sep 16 2013, 11:03 PM
This is what my plan would look like

This way, power is easily distributed between the people.

Well no, all we need is a Chief Justice.

I was going to have it where the Chief Judge is, well, Judge. The Jury is made up of the Senators. They vote on whether Guilty of Not, and the Chief Judge selects the punishment. This verdict shall then be enforced by the WA Delegate, Founder, Prime Minister, and Forum Admin.

Or we could have three judges...but that is a lot of people needed in Regional Government.
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Gillenor
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Naybra
Sep 16 2013, 11:23 PM
Gillenor
Sep 16 2013, 06:09 PM
Recardian
Sep 16 2013, 11:03 PM
This is what my plan would look like

This way, power is easily distributed between the people.

Well no, all we need is a Chief Justice.

I was going to have it where the Chief Judge is, well, Judge. The Jury is made up of the Senators. They vote on whether Guilty of Not, and the Chief Judge selects the punishment. This verdict shall then be enforced by the WA Delegate, Founder, Prime Minister, and Forum Admin.

Or we could have three judges...but that is a lot of people needed in Regional Government.

Dude trust me, Im a law student. You want the Courts to be as quick and efficient as possible. So make the Founder the Chief Justice, it's simple.
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Nerod
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Emperor of the GNNE.

I think I have another problem with the Constitution...

4-Article IV: The Senate.
I think we should establish a maximum N° of Senators and how they are elected.
5- Political Parties?: I think we should talk about Political Parties in our Constitution.

Ghant
Sep 16 2013, 08:12 PM
The Constitution needs to be OOC and not IC.

I think that the Constitution should be IC... That's my opinion.
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