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Final Tribal Council; Dawn vs Gardenia vs Wallace!
Topic Started: Jun 1 2014, 07:52 PM (1,027 Views)
Candice
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The Diamond Dust Girl!
Wallace,Jun 1 2014
01:20:06 PM
Sup.

1. The F5. It was just funny to me because of how it turned out despite what was ~said~ in messages. I lol'd.

2. Jimmy Choo's. Duh.

3. None. You can borrow my fridge magnets for free. Currently they spell "I am fiery dealings", but you can rearrange them.

:<3

Thanks wall-e! So generous with your fridge magnets ♥

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Candice
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The Diamond Dust Girl!
Dawn,Jun 1 2014
01:23:17 PM
1. The final vote: 3-1 Dawn-May. Simple. Satisfying ^_^

2. Do slippers count? :D
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3. Just one. Custom printing is all the rage now!! :)

No you cant because I want to be them slippers now ^_^

Thanks babe <3
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Professor Oak
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The Authority on Pokémon
And now we will welcome:

The Barefoot, Fighting Genius! :maylene
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Maylene
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The Barefoot, Fighting Genius!
I would put pictures here to break up this wall of text but meh.

:maylene

Ok no word of a lie, I strongly considered just posting here to tell you each how my mind was made up by what I'd seen in game and I wouldn't even bother getting your hopes up with a question because I was so locked on a Gardenia vote.

But that would hardly be fair. Why have FTC at all if there isn't some kind of slim chance to change a juror's mind? But forewarned is forearmed, coming into this my vote is 90:9:1, Gardenia:Dawn:Wallace so yah. That's how much ground you have to make up here. It is long yes, but you can ignore the other two player's sections in here, there is just one part for each of you.

(idk where this fits but it might matter to some of you, jury can see nothing outside of the TCs and stadium so for example that #armyofone thread means nothing to anyone before F6)

**

So let's start at the bottom. :wallace

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If you want to lecture about ORGing 101, don't do it. You're just wasting everyone's time. I do think that at the end of the day I've did enough to get your vote.


It is s o o o hard for me not to do this when you clearly flunked that class hard. Ofc I am talking about this, and you know exactly how I feel about it already;

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The big one. Despite what Maylene says, I still maintain that this was the correct move to do that round. Had we not tried to split the three of you up, you could and would have controled the rest of the votes and if the Arenas go your way, the rest are fucked. The three of you in tact were more dangerous than the danger Wattson and Dawn had posed. Given that I've ended up here, with no votes ever since, I believe that this was the correct move.


And rather than me telling you why, I will just post it in your own words;

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but more importantly, the votes of the minority also count towards something. Because of this distinction the metagame changes, because your goal from not getting voted out changes to not getting voted for. Small change, but it makes a ton of difference. Because of how the post-merge worked, numbers didn't mean a whole lot - sure a big group of six might have been able to split votes, but that was never going to work


All that logic, would have been so amazing for you, one round later.

Enough me, more you. We said we would talk about this at FTC, so here is your chance to tell me why it was a better move for you than inaction. Spoiler: Any kind of answer that revolves around "I am here so therefore it was a good move" will fall completely on deaf ears. Getting to the end is zero accomplishment if you go there with two people who p*ss all over your game. By the merge you were already *the most likely* person to make endgame. All that move did in my eyes, is move you from endgame with the lowest chance of a win - but still a chance-, to sitting here with absolutely no shot. So show me why I am wrong. Here is how;

So here is what I want from you. Predict the Juror's votes. Take each Juror, and tell me who they are most likely to least likely to vote for.
Like so; :maylene = :gardenia >> :dawn >>>>> :wallace

Do that with every juror and tell me where you get enough votes to win from. Show me in hard numbers why this was so great a move and (idk if you want to run alternate scenarios? that sounds like a bit much for such an outside chance, but if you can actually convince me then I will actually vote for you so up to you) how it is better than something else at that point.

That is part A. I see you offered an opinion on this in your opener, but Part B is now that you have seen the other finalist's statements and a Juror or two's views on things, put the credit for that move somewhere. i.e. which of the five of yourself, May, Gardenia, Dawn, Wattson is most to credit for that move. Ofc there is always an element of teamwork and groupthink but which one/two instigated the move and pushed it the hardest? Do you still think it was your doing? Might you want to take this opportunity to blame May or someone and say your more your game meant going with the flow even if you had reservations? Or not. Your call.

Honestly I don't know how you change me not voting for you to me voting for you or if you even want to bother. :unsure: But that is a testament to your game and that move that you managed to have me go to the jury in this state of mind. And I may not be the only one with that frame of mind. We have 20 hours or something so it's worth a shot.

**

Dawn :dawn

Full credit to you gurl, you have that admirable first boot to FTC fairytale going and deserved kudos to you for staying out of the Arena all those times in between. This is the first Jury in a long time where "relying" on arena wins doesn't seem to be an issue so gj there too. And you're not even a Gym Leader? Heck you're a co-ordinator :o

I do have a problem or two with your game tho, but they are small and you already covered them pretty well in your opener before I could even ask. But maybe a bit more detail so I can fully understand and see how well it matches with what I hear elsewhere. My issue is that there are times in the game where I feel like you weren't in control of your own fate. Some rounds it feels like you were laying for what was best for Wattson for example, or Gardenia. Like, your avoiding the target for so long is probably my fault more than anyone's since I was only pretending to be as threatening as I really am and if I was going in to duel I wanted it to be not you I was facing :lol:

So that happens at merge and again the next round and the May votes from Roark and I are semi-motivated by that but it comes to a head in particular during this round when we finally face off;

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The Barefoot, Fighting Genius!!

The biggest threat to my game then manifested as the girl with the cute toes, Maylene. Ultimately she had friends in Roark and Fantina on the jury already and for me to give her the chance to slip through to the end was not good. So I took the risk to vote her in with Mr Wattson and Gardy, fully aware that May and Wally were likely to vote me in as well. It was scary as hell but it was a do or die scenario and I hate to be pompous but I don’t believe the others could have done it unless they got a duel Maylene was bad at. In a format as evil as Arena this is something I absolutely deserve credit for!! :P


(ofc ^_^ this q is not-so-secretly about me, me meme mememe)

I can and do respect your decision here. I said 90:9:1 earlier but this explanation probably already pushed it to 80:19:1. I have to wonder if it was your decision tho? Like. Why is taking me out and running the risk of getting taken out yourself the best thing for your game here? Compare it to Gardenia's version of things and I can see clearly why you doing this is huge for her game. And you know as well as anyone how close she is to Hoenn and how many of what could be your Jury votes are now gonna be up in the air between you and her (or you/her/Wattson at the time). Sure I have Roark & Fantina's on lock most likely but with me gone they go to Gardenia (not saying that is true, but in-game you could reasonably assume that to be the case). Heck my own vote too, which is the case. The whole thing is easily avoided with you just voting Gardenia with me or forcing Wattson to do something different or a shock Dawn/May/Wallace team-up. idk, something that doesn't end with your neck on the line. I feel like Gardenia benefited hugely from this and Wattson benefited big-time from it too. You ran all the risk for little reward. Heck you losing here would be another Jury vote for Wattson. So what I see going on that round (and some moments earlier in the game) is him being cut-throat and manipulative and getting you to do what is best for his game, and you just going along with it.

So I guess show me why this was your decision and wasn't Gardenia's influence (as she outlined) and/or you being led by the nose by Wattson. And if it was yours then why is it worth the risk. Understand I am not knocking it as a move - just get more into the "why" of it than you did in your opener. Also, any other things and examples from other rounds in the game where you can show me you had a mind of your own and making your own way and weren't just going along with Wattson/Hoenn/w/e are good too. Show me how ~Dawn~ actively was making moves to further yourself and put yourself into a winnable finale. Even examples from Hoenn.

Convince me that your moves were your moves and were made for Dawn's benefit > anyone else's benefit.

**

:gardenia Gardenia

I have no questions for you I don't think? You have been pretty amazing although maybe not quite all that. The secret flip was no secret but there was enough doubt around it for us to be dumbasses and not bloc-vote together to following round. :rolleyes: I blame the weekend but credit to you for working even that. You played all sides excellently and even May is sitting here on Jury asking "wait.. are you s u r e she wasn't on my side?" lol.

Also the other two can use this time to let you catch up on the earlier qs since they have doozies here and you have none.

So I will just say good game girl and my vote is yours to lose (or be stolen - if you want to refute either of their answers and consolidate my fears about their games as explained above, we do have a full day here and you know I love a good scrap (this also goes to you other two)). ^_^ Good luck.
[align=center]:maylene Posted Image :maylene[/align]
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Maylene
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The Barefoot, Fighting Genius!
Some rounds it feels like you were *playing for what was best for Wattson for example


You get what I meant.

No rush on these answers either. I probs won't lodge a vote till tomorrow so take your time.
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Dawn
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Twinleaf Pokémon Trainer
Hey Maylene, I think what it comes down to is probably my confidence that I could do well in the arena if I had to. I did a lot of mentioning to various people of how I thought I would suck at some duels or didn't even finish others but it's bullpoop - I'm super-confident and I was willing to risk going head on if I had to because it's just a fun way to play and less of a gamebot hardcore angst-fest that ORGs tend to be :P
I don't personally believe relying on winning duels should be held against anyone, especially in Arena format, but as you say it doesn't really matter here because I didn't rely on them. I relied on the reputation that I would be scary to beat to avoid getting votes until late in the merge.

For your boot specifically, it was long in my mind that I would want you gone and somebody convincing me to change my vote doesn't just happen in two messages if I was not already seriously thinking about it.
I don't think you or Gardy ever had intentions of going to the end with me, and in a situation of choosing between you or her I would vote you out every time at that vote because you were the perceived challenge threat who could sneak through to the end and screw my game up.

May and Wally perceived me as a threat, both challenge and jury, and would not help me get close to the end. I couldn't side with them to have Wattson or Gardy in the arena with you, where (sorry guys) I believe you would win and I would be down an ally. Plus their votes were locked on me regardless.

So that's why it was my decision and for primarily my benefit. Voting Gardy or Wattson would lose either of them and you would be ahead another round and I have less reliable numbers to work with. Voting May or Wally would have let you survive that duel with a free pass, where I'd have to have me or somebody else try to deal with you the next anyway, and you sure as hell would've done your best to get somebody else in there with me instead of you.

I hope that satisfies that part!! :lol: As for the rest if you'd like a specific example of when I was clearly not being "led around by Wattson", there was a fun time on Hoenn where the vote was heading toward Volkner, who turned it to Norman. As Volkner mentioned in his question I was the one convincing that spikey-haired dude to vote for Flanny instead because I needed both Volkner AND Norman for my plans. This round even saw Wattson being discussed as a target between Me, Roxy, and Norman, and was also mentioned to May and Volkner IIRC.
May should also remember how serious I had considered it and Mr Wattson should definitely remember confronting me about it later ^_^ My point is, I have been making what I believe are optimal decisions for me since I arrived at Hoenn up until tonight. If they happen to align with what Wattson or Gardenia wanted me to do at various times, that's just convenient for them and adds fuel to their fire that they could lead me to the moon and back if they wanted.



I totally understand if you don't vote for me, but I think you should :)
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Gardenia
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Master of Vivid Plant Pokémon
Thanks so much for the kind words, Volky :<3

You’re right that I struggled to find a way to fit the game in with my real life commitments early on, which is why I ran into difficulty in the first few rounds. I remember getting home from work in round 2 and being completely surprised that the vote was on you. It was too late for me to do anything besides go along with it, but I should have sent you a heads up PM, absolutely.

Onto your (hilarious) questions:

There are a couple of ways I could approach this, but I decided in the end to go with some odd pairings that would make for some fun story-telling. You gave a warning that your question may contain explicit sex scenes, and that definitely applies to my answer too :P


Candice and Maylene

Candice invited Maylene to visit her in Snowpoint City. They decided to head out for a dinner date. “Alright, I’m ready” said Candice, pulling on her teal sweater. “I’m not, I don’t want to go back out into the cold…” Maylene whined. Candice giggled, stepping outside and walking into the cold, frigid air, ankle deep in snow. The air ripped through Candice’s short skirt, giving Maylene a glimpse of what was underneath. “I don’t understand how you can live here.” Maylene shivered, hugging Candice’s body for warmth. When they arrived at the restaurant, Maylene said “I like you Candice, really, but I hate your city. Why did you suggest we have our date here and not, I don’t know, Sunyshore? My bare feet don’t mind sand and sunshine…” Candice smiled, “I wanted it here to make you suffer” she flirted. The dinner date was a success and as Maylene prepared to head back outside she smiled to herself and thought “I guess this place isn’t so bad after all.”


Volkner and Wattson

These two met at a gay bar in Hoenn. Volkner was ordering a drink when he heard a loud, cherry laugh from behind him. He turned around and saw a small, old man grinning from the entrance way. “Sorry to interrupt,” he said, “I’m Wattson, the electric-type gym leader here. Know any kids who enjoy a shock?” The bartender laughed and called out “over here”, pointing at Volkner. Volkner shrugged, smirking slightly. Wattson grinned from ear to ear, walked over and grabbed Volkner by the wrist, “Then let’s go, boy!” he shouted. The two of them went into a private room upstairs. They quickly became fully charged, blew each other’s fuses, and fluxed for hours trying various connections and sockets. Upon returning to the bar, Volkner was asked by the bartender, “How was your date with the old man?” There was only one word that came to Volkner’s mind… “Electrifying!”


Fantina and Norman

Fantina and Norman had been set up on a blind date at the movies. “Âllo sir, comment-ça va?” “Um, do you speak English?” replied Noman, sheepishly. “What ze ever loving fuck is zat kind of question?” said Fantina as she turned and walked briskly into the theatre, her purple hair-blobs bouncing with each step. Norman, a quiet man in nature, wasn’t sure if he should follow her or not. After five minutes of indecision, he eventually realised his time would be better served back at Petalburg Gym. Needless to say there will not be a second date.


Roark and May

“Hi, I’m Roark the rock! Do you happen to be the rock-type gym leader of Hoenn?” May looked up from the magazine she was reading in the café to see a handsome young man in a miner’s uniform and helmet talking to her. “Who, me? Haha! No, I’m not a gym leader at all. Not yet anyway!” she laughed. Roark nodded, “I kind of figured it wasn’t you, but I needed an excuse to talk to a girl as cute as you.” May’s face flushed crimson, more laughter escaping her mouth. “I’m May.” She extended her arm, locking Roark into a handshake. He asked “Can I buy you a drink? The coffee here ROCKS!” And so Roark and May sat and drank coffee together, feeling that this was the start of something special…

And special it was. Into the café walked a slim figure. “Gardenia!” Roark shouted. He recognised his ex-lover instantly from her helmet-like haircut. He quickly stood up to embrace the grass-type gym leader. It had been so long since the two had communicated. “Gardenia! I’ve missed you!” Roark said. Then, another voice said “I’ve missed you too, Gardy.” It was May. Gardenia realised that she had walked in on TWO of her exes on what appeared to be some sort of date. “I’m so sorry, I don’t want to make things awkward…” But it wasn’t awkward at all. Gardenia joined them with a drink of herbal tea and the three of them together hit it off like nothing any of them had ever experienced before or ever would since.
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Gardenia
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Master of Vivid Plant Pokémon
Candice,Jun 1 2014
11:14:17 PM
Srs hats on now.

1. Which vote post merge did you find the most fun?
2. If you could be any shoe in the world what would you be?
3. If I have 8 fridge magnets and give 2 to each to 3 different friends, and they then give each other 1 of there own, if they then split them up into quarters and give 3 away to one person each before that person gives 3 pieces back to me, how many fridge magnets will I then need to buy to spell out the phrase "Gardenia is my life" on my fridge?

1. The F8 vote. You would have loved it. Wattson and I even spoke about how much fun you would have had with it! There was so much that had to go right for it to work and it all did! This was the vote that gave me life again.

2. Posted Image

These ones. No explanation needed.

3. I didn't think I could love you more, but then I read this question :<3 Since I want to treat your question with the respect it deserves, I worked it out as best as I could and I think you will need to buy 5 fridge magnets. Probably ones with the letters G, I, I, R, L on them.
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Maylene
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The Barefoot, Fighting Genius!
Thanks Dawn.

Wallace idk if I will or even can be satisfied with your future answer :lol: So I guess I'm as satisfied as I'm likely to get. Maybe you will knock my socks off and then ba-lindside for everyone.

Good luck you three.
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Wallace
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Artist, and lover of water.
I'm working on it, dw girl. But I want to give a well-thought out answer because whether I get your vote or not, those are things that need to be said.
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Professor Oak
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The Authority on Pokémon
Next we have:

A man in pursuit of power! :norman
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Norman
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A man in pursuit of power!
Congratulations to the 3 of you for making it to the end. I had very different experiences with all 3 of you and spent varying amounts of time with you all.

Firstly, Gardenia. I hardly ever spoke to you because we simply never had the opportunity. What I'd like to know from you really isn't anything about you personally. I can read your statement, answers to other jurors and make assessment from that.

I'd like you to actually assess your original Sinnoh tribe and tell me a little bit about each of them and how they played. Just paint a picture of what they were all like. I'd appreciate that.

Wallace. We had a tentative alliance initially. You never trusted me and to be honest, I knew you didn't and thus I never trusted you. What I'd like to know is what you knew about our early tribe dynamics. More specifically, why did Flannery attack me for being some alliance forming dictator? Who was telling her these things? Was it gameplay from anyone specific or more of a group? And why did Brendan think I was the one pushing his vote? If you could answer these questions, I'd appreciate that.

Dawn. Basically, the jury has their favourites and everyone thinks their opinion is the right one. Who woulda thought, huh? There's a lot of egos out there in the ORG world and you can bet your butt plenty of them are playing here and some are on the jury.

I'm going to do you a favour. You're seen as someone who didn't really do much other than hide behind being a challenge threat. You're seen as someone who didn't make moves. Because apparently getting to the end is all about making moves and of course nobody actually did it right in some jurors' eyes. Moves are good if they come off, but I'd say it's very few and far between that moves alone win a person a game. A lot of luck is needed and a lot of smarts are needed. Sometimes the best move is no move at all. That in itself is a move. Dodge instead of catch. Hide instead of be stubborn. Fight for your votes and prove your game. That's all you can do and I hope you can do it as well as your perceived challenge prowess.

For the three of you, my vote is very much open. I will watch and listen. I will make my decision. You got to the end in different ways but however you got there, you all needed luck, you all needed smart play, and you all needed to do something to get there. Sell to me what you did the best, and you will win my vote. Thanks, and good luck!
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Dawn
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Twinleaf Pokémon Trainer
Thanks Norm :) To the people you're referring to I gotta stress that making moves for the sake of making moves is not worthwhile. When I've been in a position to make a move that benefits my chances of making the end, I have made it. It's why I survived Hoenn and why I am here now.
Mr Wattson made a move at the F5 to try and get the votes to land with May and Gardenia by coming up with all the bullpoop about voting for me and so on. He did this knowing full well that there was a high chance May and Wally would just vote for him. He expected it, and they did so to nobody's surprise, and it got him in the arena. What should I have done here instead? Somebody was taking the target off me and any move I could have done there for the sake of it would have landed me in the arena. The right move by me was not to play a card. :)
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Gardenia
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Great comments and questions, Maylene! I'm obviously really happy about the way your vote is leaning, but I'm going to do what I can to turn the 90:9:1 into 100:0:0 :D

Maylene,Jun 1 2014
11:38:08 PM
I will just say good game girl and my vote is yours to lose (or be stolen - if you want to refute either of their answers and consolidate my fears about their games as explained above, we do have a full day here and you know I love a good scrap (this also goes to you other two)). ^_^ Good luck.

Since you've invited it, there's one thing I want to refute from Dawn's response. Yes, it ultimately was her decision to cast her vote for you at F6, but to say that I had no hand in leading her to making that decision is quite clearly false. You did a great job at summing up why it logically wasn't in her best interest in your question already, but here's the cold, hard evidence. The relevant PM chain between Dawn and I:

:dawn
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May and Wally have totally been working all day. They're saying we should all vote Maylene tonight and then let her vote how she wants. Like that's going to happen :lol:

I think Wally and May will be going for me and Wattson in the hopes that we vote for Maylene. So, we absolutely have to vote for Wally or May :P The plus side is that you should be safe and only get Maylene's random side vote. Let us know if they say anything funky to you :<3

:gardenia
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You don't think we should vote for Maylene? I don't like the idea of her making her public thread to get everyone to turn on each other and having it work for her.

Let's say we vote for Maylene. May and Wallace aren't going to vote for her, so if they vote for me it'll be 3-3 and I'll be the one to face her. I'm okay with that. If May and Wallace vote for you or Wattson then it'll be 3-2-1 and the battle is Maylene vs Wattson/you. So either way one of us would be battling Maylene.

If we vote for May or Wallace instead of Maylene, then we're giving Maylene a free pass and one of us is going into the Arena ANYWAY, just against a different opponent. I'd rather take the chance of taking Maylene out for good this round than leave her floating into the end game. She's the underdog in the eyes of the jury now and is the biggest threat to win for all of us.

What do you think?

:dawn
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Hmm it is a good point I just hate the thought of May or Wally being able to turn on us without us doing anything in return :P I'm going to vote with you and Wattson no matter what tonight. The other chance is that May and Wally vote for Maylene and we get one of the two in the arena with her. That's the perfect goal tonight :lol:

:gardenia
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Yeah I know, but isn't that exactly what Maylene is trying to get us to do? Turn on each other so that she doesn't get any votes?

It's unavoidable that one of you, me, or Wattson will be voted out tonight, unless May and Wallace vote for Maylene which they aren't going to do because they've realised that we're a threesome. So unfortunately the perfect goal isn't going to happen... It sucks that we have to leave our fates in their hands, but I think that comes with the territory in this format. Whichever of us is voted out needs to do everything we can to beat Maylene in the battle!

:dawn
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I think you're right.... The only other option is to let Take on Wally and beat him, and then next round hopefully May would be helpful in taking out Maylene?

Let's just do Maylene. I'm confident we can beat her.

There was clearly some reluctance on Dawn's part to vote for you, until I made my case that is. I knew that May and Wallace were voting for Dawn at this point so there was no risk to me in not voting for them, but there was a big risk for Dawn.
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Wallace
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Artist, and lover of water.
Norman,Jun 2 2014
12:53:23 AM
Wallace. We had a tentative alliance initially. You never trusted me and to be honest, I knew you didn't and thus I never trusted you. What I'd like to know is what you knew about our early tribe dynamics. Who was telling her these things? Was it gameplay from anyone specific or more of a group? And why did Brendan think I was the one pushing his vote? If you could answer these questions, I'd appreciate that.

Hey man, glad to see you alive.

Well, from my POV, it was you who got the "initial 6" together (Flanny, May, Brendan, Roxanne, and us), so you were definitely out there as someone who took initiative to make alliances happen. But I did not tell her about any alliance I've had with you - May knew about them, so she could've clued her in on that, idk. My talks with her never really went the way of "WE GOTTA GET RID OF NORMAN HE'S A MASTERMIND", so to be honest I don't know where she got that. We did talk casually abotu voting you out soon, but not for reasons of overplaying. That was Brendan :unsure: Knowing how he disliked you I think he could've been the one feeding her that.

As for your last question, I'm guilty to some extent~ When Brendan asked me who his name came from I didn't tell him Flannery's name because she was really close to me I didn't want to get her into hot water, so I might have told him your name there to save Flannery from his wrath. They were both important to me, I didn't want them to quarrel.
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