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Privateer Football Discussion
Topic Started: Aug 19 2014, 09:31 AM (1,437 Views)
Privateer6
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I've just listened to the podcast on football. Great job, Shaun, Steve, and Jim. Thanks for doing it.

I'll state up front that there really wasn't anything that any of you said that I disagree with. The facts are clear -- unless you live in Indiana or North Carolina or a few major east/northeast cities, football drives college athletic interest, alumni giving, alumni involvement, athletic-related enrollment decisions, etc., for social and historical reasons. That's just the way it goes.

- - - - - -

Now that we're in the Southland, I don't think non-scholarship football makes as much sense as it did when we were in the Sun Belt. In the end, the difference in travel expenses between the Pioneer League and the Southland would pay for a certain number of scholarships. In terms of the growth of the program, you're probably better off starting as an underfunded (with less scholarships) team in the lower half of the Southland and hoping to build than trying to get into the Pioneer League and

[edit:] I'm not sure what happened. This post was originally much longer. I went to edit it for a few typos and must have deleted the remainder by accident. My apologies.
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Steve
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Privateer6,Aug 19 2014
10:31 AM
If given the choice between DI without football in our lifetime and DII with football (in a competetive DII conference (2 teams open the season in the national rankings) with 2 football teams in MS (with the addition of Mississippi College), 2 in AL, 3 in GA, 1 in FL) at the end of a four-year window, I think people might come down on different sides

They might, and I suppose rightfully so, though that was never really a choice. Champion dangled the football carrot in order to drum up support for the D2 plan. We were not in reality much closer to football in the D2 era then we are now, though we were close to being a non-football school in the GSC. The whole scenario was notable for a UNO athletic director openly talking football, but not much else IMO.

Despite appearing on D3 schedules, I don't think we were even all that close to that happening either. Our leadership was quite erratic at the time and had no idea what it was doing on a very basic level.
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Slidell
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Great stuff, P6.

I'd love to hear a state of the program talk from Dr. Fos and AD Morel.

I think it was stressed in the podcast that no one is calling for football now, everything else be damned.

Everyone is aware of the reality of the current fiscal crisis at UNO. UNO's campus is in a dire situation financially. Very difficult decisions have to be made and athletics is a favorite target of critics whenever the budget axe starts flying around.

So it's easy to understand the necessity to "lay low" a little.

But at some point we have to acknowledge that we have to take some sort of action in order to turn things around.


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Slidell
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Aw man, P6. The original post was great - with the quotes from Fos at the D-I announcement.

I think it's important to show that football was supposed to be part of the plan initially.

I think we all just want to know what happened and where we stand now.
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Privateer6
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Slidell,Aug 19 2014
10:15 AM
Aw man, P6. The original post was great - with the quotes from Fos at the D-I announcement.

I think it's important to show that football was supposed to be part of the plan initially.

I think we all just want to know what happened and where we stand now.

I don't know what happened. I went to edit it for a few typos and I must have really screwed up before saving it. :( I'll at least get those quotes again when I have a minute.
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Privateer6
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Steve,Aug 19 2014
10:01 AM
They might, and I suppose rightfully so, though that was never really a choice. Champion dangled the football carrot in order to drum up support for the D2 plan. We were not in reality much closer to football in the D2 era then we are now, though we were close to being a non-football school in the GSC. The whole scenario was notable for a UNO athletic director openly talking football, but not much else IMO.

Did you think Archie Manning, (Chiefs CFO) Dan Crumb, the VooDoo guys, etc., going to be a part of a process that did nothing or decided we couldn't do DII football?

Oh, wow, this is still available on the official site -- if you want a copy, save it now. :)

University of New Orleans Football/Women's Soccer Timeline
http://www.unoprivateers.com/documents/201...am_Timeline.pdf

Here's the Times-Picayune on the Manning-Crumb-etc. committee:

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2011/09/..._at_uno_be.html
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Steve
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Not sure those guys were ever in past the "this sounds good" phase. They were part of a committee that never met, and a committee that, whoever else was noteworthy and well-intentioned, included Amy Champion and LaPlace Privateer. That was not going to result in a successful $10 million football startup.

That said, to whatever degree those people were involved, it does not seem like those relationships were nurtured by the current leadership.

The athletic pro forma at the time, through 2015/16, did not include any serious budgeting for football.

It was a lot of smoke and mirrors. We probably should have spent a couple of minutes on it in the podcast, but... eh.
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Privateer6
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Below are the quotes I had in the portion of the initial message that was accidentally deleted. They are from March 2012 and August 2012. While budget cuts continue, they were said in the context of a university that had already been substantially downsized and had already seen the bulk of the budget cuts.

With respect to remaining DI, Dr. Fos said, in March 2012, "I have the full support of Dr. Moffett as well as all the other eight institutions (in the UL system) that are playing Division I."

Lyons Yellin reported "The initial plan called for UNO to begin football in 2015, but Fos said this decision will delay the process for at least a year."

Thus, with respect to football, Dr. Fos appeared to understand that the previous regime stated an intention to start scholarship DII football in the Gulf South Conference by 2015 and he stated a desire to play DI football.

Dr. Fos said, "I’ve learned since I got back that people here want football. I want to play football in Division I and play the in-state schools — the Nicholls States and the Southeasterns — the schools in my system."

He is quoted as saying "There is a little difference between Division I and Division II football. The helmets cost the same, the shoulder pads, but you have to have a couple more coaches and a few more scholarships. I probably need about $3 million or $4 million more a year."

In the context of Yellin saying that this decision would delay the process for at least a year, you would think Dr. Fos was aiming to raise that necessary money and target 2016, 17, 18, or so. His selection for AD came from a fundraising, rather than purely athletic administration background.

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2012/03/...fos_says_s.html

As for the view of the Southland Conference, Yellin reported his discussion with Southland commissioner Tom Burnett. "Football is a priority for the conference and major topic of discussion with UNO, Burnett said."

In August 2012, Burnett said "We didn't mandate the football program, but we did talk about it quite a bit. I would characterize it as a very strong preference for football. (The Southland would like) a strategic and executable plan in about a five- or six-year window. But we come back to the stance where before football can work for the conference, it has to work for the institution. Once they can make that happen then the conference stuff will be easy. We're a football league, so we'd love for them to play it and I think the opportunity for them to do that at Tad Gormley Stadium is there. But they have to work through some issues first and re-establish themselves as a Division I program."

So, while he concedes that the time has to be right for UNO, the Southland's preference that UNO have football is "very strong" and, two years ago, the commissioner said he would like "a strategic and executable plan in about a five- or six-year window."

http://www.nola.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/...ans_offi_1.html

My previous post pointed out that there are no obvious signs that we are moving to get in line with the clear preferences of our partners in the Southland Conference. There is no discussion of executable plans or windows.

I don't know how long Dr. Fos plans to be in office, but I would be interested to know if ever-worsening financial difficulties at the school means he has abandoned his plan of seeing a UNO team take the field during his tenure.

As a football-less school in a football-crazed part of the country, we were often an afterthought in the Sun Belt -- "these are the teams in the Sun Belt... oh, and UNO and UALR, too." I like competing in Division I in basketball and baseball, to be certain, but I would also like to know whether Fos and Morel have any tangible plans to make sure, when people are talking about the Southland, they won't always say " these are the teams... oh, and UNO and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi. They don't play football, but they're in the league, too." :(
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Bill73
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UNO Master Plan 2020
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NSPRIVATEER
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I just received UNO's Master Plan 2020 in my inbox and unless I am just being pessimistic I see nothing to indicate that this adminstration is even considering football at all in UNO's future. In the section on athletics it outlines three phases of facility enchancements which features sand volleyball courts and areas for track and field to practice as well as a strength and conditioning facility. I know it is plan only to 2020 but it speaks volumes to this administrations LACK of commitment to football. I understand everyone wanting Southland Football but at this point I want any football. I am closer to walking away from this mess now than I have ever been. I feel we were lied to and I see no real effort to raise money in the community to grow our programs. Out athletes have less assets than any other state schools and we have to compete against them in the same conference. This is not a Jindal problem or a state problem. This is a UNO problem, its about a lack of commitment period. SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME I AM WRONG.
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Tpstr
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Guys, I finished listening to the podcast sitting in my car at lunch today. Thanks for raising my hopes to ridiculous levels again. ;)

First off, thanks to all three of you for your limitless passion and drive. The podcast is always a refreshing voice of Silver and Blue news, especially in the desert of August. Jim, you've been the torchbearer for some many years now, it's great to hear that the fire rages unabated.

I'm wholeheartedly in favor of football in some form. We've proven for over thirty years that unless your mens basketball team wins first round games regularly in the NCAA tourney, your programs will always be starving on the vine for resources. It will be hard work, and could still fail, but it's got to be better than our current plan, or lack thereof.

I've got two devils advocate questions to ask that y'all didn't touch in the pod. First off, is there any chance of factoring TOPS scholarships into the funding coverage? There just seems to be a ready made pool of kids that aren't quite D-whatever, but would probably qualify academically to take the bill away. That and it could potentially help the overall APR. I guess one problem would be we don't have those limits in other sports, so the whole scheme would be moot.

2nd, what impact would y'all see from the OBannon lawsuit? Does that bill trickle down to all members, or just the gang of 65?
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Slidell
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Tpstr,Aug 19 2014
05:41 PM
Guys, I finished listening to the podcast sitting in my car at lunch today. Thanks for raising my hopes to ridiculous levels again. ;)

First off, thanks to all three of you for your limitless passion and drive. The podcast is always a refreshing voice of Silver and Blue news, especially in the desert of August. Jim, you've been the torchbearer for some many years now, it's great to hear that the fire rages unabated.

I'm wholeheartedly in favor of football in some form. We've proven for over thirty years that unless your mens basketball team wins first round games regularly in the NCAA tourney, your programs will always be starving on the vine for resources. It will be hard work, and could still fail, but it's got to be better than our current plan, or lack thereof.

I've got two devils advocate questions to ask that y'all didn't touch in the pod. First off, is there any chance of factoring TOPS scholarships into the funding coverage? There just seems to be a ready made pool of kids that aren't quite D-whatever, but would probably qualify academically to take the bill away. That and it could potentially help the overall APR. I guess one problem would be we don't have those limits in other sports, so the whole scheme would be moot.

2nd, what impact would y'all see from the OBannon lawsuit? Does that bill trickle down to all members, or just the gang of 65?

On TOPS...It's a great tool if we're talking about a nonscholarship football program because academic scholarships (which TOPS is) are allowed. It would be a great way to keep local kids from leaving to try to walk on somewhere else.

But it doesn't work as a replacement for athletic scholarships if we're trying to put together a team to compete in the Southland for a couple of reasons, but primarily because TOPS is not a full free ride - it does not cover room and board, etc. (Trust me - my son is a senior, so I'm becoming an expert on how to pay for college!) So any football player being recruited by a Southland caliber team isn't going to pass up a full athletic scholarship at say a Nicholls to take a TOPS partial at UNO.

On the O'Bannon lawsuit, I think that effect of that will be that the royalties that schools were getting from the video games, etc., will dry up some. But below the Power 5 conferences I don't think those royalties were significant anyway. But I could be wrong.
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Slidell
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NSPRIVATEER,Aug 19 2014
03:45 PM
I just received UNO's Master Plan 2020 in my inbox and unless I am just being pessimistic I see nothing to indicate that this adminstration is even considering football at all in UNO's future. In the section on athletics it outlines three phases of facility enchancements which features sand volleyball courts and areas for track and field to practice as well as a strength and conditioning facility. I know it is plan only to 2020 but it speaks volumes to this administrations LACK of commitment to football. I understand everyone wanting Southland Football but at this point I want any football. I am closer to walking away from this mess now than I have ever been. I feel we were lied to and I see no real effort to raise money in the community to grow our programs. Out athletes have less assets than any other state schools and we have to compete against them in the same conference. This is not a Jindal problem or a state problem. This is a UNO problem, its about a lack of commitment period. SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME I AM WRONG.

I read it too and was disappointed.

Not so much because it didn't mention one thing about football (but yes, that's a glaring omission given the comments made by Dr. Fos at the D-I announcement about football by 2016...or maybe a little later than that).

But because there was no real emphasis at all on athletics. Small parts of the plan entail engaging alumni by promoting athletic events and tracking attendance (that alarmed me just a little). But otherwise, the strategic master plan did not address athletics in any significant manner.

That was disappointing.
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Tpstr
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One more bugaboo I thought about: Title IX. How many other sports would need to be added to balance the equation? My guess would be soccer, softball, and something else. Soccer and softball would have some local opportunities for games built in. The third sport would be the mystery to me.
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Slidell
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Tpstr,Aug 20 2014
06:30 PM
One more bugaboo I thought about: Title IX. How many other sports would need to be added to balance the equation? My guess would be soccer, softball, and something else. Soccer and softball would have some local opportunities for games built in. The third sport would be the mystery to me.

No doubt we have to be Title IX compliant.

And it will be used as an argument against football.

Yet every school with a football team seems to have figured out how to balance Title IX compliance with having a football team.

But of course...we're UNO...so it will be painted as an insurmountable barrier to a Privateer football program.

<_<
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Privateer6
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Tpstr,Aug 20 2014
06:30 PM
The third sport would be the mystery to me.

We're now cutting women's golf for sand volleyball, so re-adding that conference sport would be one option.
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NSPRIVATEER
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Adding women sports is the least of our problems when it comes to football. No one at UNO can figure out how we can play football but every other state school can. One school, SLU even figured it out twice but UNO can't. Many of these schools are located in smaller less than prosperous cities and can raise money but UNO can't or won't try. Football or the lack of football at UNO is one of those disappointing mysteries that never gets figured out.
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PrivateerProject
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Sometimes I wonder what reality some of our alums are living in.

24 MILLION DOLLARS. That is how much the budget was cut. 24 Million. And we have people wondering why no football? Your comparisons to Southeastern and Nicholls are Apples to Oranges because those programs already had Football before these massive budget cuts came down the pike. UNO can not absorb the start up costs of Football. let alone be able to fund it in its early stages before it began bringing in money. This is not a matter of opinion, this is an economical fact.

When Fos was talking about football enrollment was at 10,000 and rising. Since then its dropped by 8,000 in addition to the other budget cuts. Any money he thought would exist for football disappeared with all those students. For an alumni base of engineers and business man I am amazed that you can not equate the the correlation between losing 24 million in funding and 2,000 students and the lack of commitment to starting football. This isn't a mystery or a conspiracy or a Fos/Morel problem. It is a very clear answer. 24 freaking million dollars.

You want to fund raise to start football? Fundraise from who? If you really think we have an active alumni base that's willing to give that amount of money than you are clearly not involved with UNO's Alumni base. We can't even get funds to build facilities already in place! And your talking about fundraising 5-6 Million dollars!

So everyone understand what it really happening right now on the Lakefront...UNO is hanging by a thread. Some of you should be more concerned with the school surviving than with football. Certainly concerned with athletics surviving. You guys are so far removed from the reality of what is happening at UNO right now that it is scary.
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Unofan
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Your's won't be a popular post on this board, but I agree with it. Dr. Fos simply has bigger fish to fry at this point in time. I hope that football is in the discussion further down the road, but now is not the time. He's trying to keep the university as entact as possible amidst the enrollment declines and dwindling revenue sources.
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Slidell
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PrivateerProject,Aug 23 2014
05:51 PM
Sometimes I wonder what reality some of our alums are living in.

24 MILLION DOLLARS. That is how much the budget was cut. 24 Million. And we have people wondering why no football? Your comparisons to Southeastern and Nicholls are Apples to Oranges because those programs already had Football before these massive budget cuts came down the pike. UNO can not absorb the start up costs of Football. let alone be able to fund it in its early stages before it began bringing in money. This is not a matter of opinion, this is an economical fact.

When Fos was talking about football enrollment was at 10,000 and rising. Since then its dropped by 8,000 in addition to the other budget cuts. Any money he thought would exist for football disappeared with all those students. For an alumni base of engineers and business man I am amazed that you can not equate the the correlation between losing 24 million in funding and 2,000 students and the lack of commitment to starting football. This isn't a mystery or a conspiracy or a Fos/Morel problem. It is a very clear answer. 24 freaking million dollars.

You want to fund raise to start football? Fundraise from who? If you really think we have an active alumni base that's willing to give that amount of money than you are clearly not involved with UNO's Alumni base. We can't even get funds to build facilities already in place! And your talking about fundraising 5-6 Million dollars!

So everyone understand what it really happening right now on the Lakefront...UNO is hanging by a thread. Some of you should be more concerned with the school surviving than with football. Certainly concerned with athletics surviving. You guys are so far removed from the reality of what is happening at UNO right now that it is scary.

Typical response. Attack and belittle anyone that shows a little passion and vision for UNO Athletics' future.

No one....no one...is calling for football immediately.

Read the posts and listen to the podcast.

Everyone that has posted or spoken out about football has acknowledged the dismal state of affairs on campus...the massive hole the budget cuts and drop in enrollment have left us in. Everyone understands that football can't be done right now.

However...we also believe that things will eventually get better. Do you? If not, then we're all wasting our time...even on our current sports.

And we believe that any plan to improve our situation should include football.

And laying the groundwork for football while managing the fiscal crisis on campus are NOT mutually exclusive endeavors.

But your comments demonstrate the self-fulfilling prophecy of doom and gloom that is typical of UNO. "We can't." "We can't." "How dare you even suggest that we can."

That attitude keeps the status quo.



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