Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Privateer Island Fan Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
Privateer Football Discussion
Topic Started: Aug 19 2014, 09:31 AM (1,440 Views)
PrivateerProject
Sophomore
[ *  * ]
Outside of saying. "We'd like to have football someday". There is no groundwork to lay. The time for laying groundwork is probably 7-10 years away at best. If the fiscal crisis on campus and football are not mutually exclusive- Where do you think the money to start football is coming from? Who do you think funds athletics now? I'm not trying to belittle anyone, but there is nothing to talk about in regards to starting football. Someone is going to have to be more specific about what constitutes a long term plan for football at a school that needs to find 5-10 million just to continue functioning at the level they are at now. I do believe things will get better but UNO is light years away from a legitimate football discussion.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
UNO has been in an enrollment dilemma since Katrina. It was forced to drop a few programs due to the storm, lost students due to the new academic standards, state budget cuts with negative condemnations, and I assume lost students because it doesn't offer the "full college" experience as noted by several of my friends who graduated from UNO but sent their kids to other schools.

When I ask them about the "full college" experience comment they mostly cite the "football" week end. I know I was one of the UNO kids that actually attended Tulane football games when I in school because it was "something" to do on Saturday evening during the fall.

UNO has a long hard road ahead of itself. The question I have is this: Is UNO overstaffed with faculty and staff for the current student population? If so then UNO should be like any other business and "right size" itself so it can have the extra money to fund the things that will attract students. I do not know if the tenured professors are teaching the same number of classes as their peer schools in the UL system, if not, they should be.

I hear some students complain about the lack of multiple class offerings so they can graduate on time but I am not sure if that is the case or not. They tell me that the classes they need are scheduled at the same time and in many cases only one offering is available during the semester.

If UNO can "right" itself in the next couple of years, football needs to be part of that discussion, rather than 7-10 years from now. In 10 years it might be a moot point.

The professors, faculty and staff should be just as concerned, if not more so, as the alums about the survival of UNO and what is needed to attract students to the campus.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PrivateerProject
Sophomore
[ *  * ]
I appreciate a well thought out response. I agree football among other things would enrich the student experience at UNO. I am not sure it would attract as many students as it would cost to implement.

I will say I wonder if your 3rd paragraph is serious? UNO will have cut somewhere in the range of 150 faculty and staff positions under Fos. That was one of the first cost cutting moves made every year.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Slidell
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
PrivateerProject,Aug 24 2014
08:05 PM
Outside of saying. "We'd like to have football someday". There is no groundwork to lay. The time for laying groundwork is probably 7-10 years away at best. If the fiscal crisis on campus and football are not mutually exclusive- Where do you think the money to start football is coming from? Who do you think funds athletics now? I'm not trying to belittle anyone, but there is nothing to talk about in regards to starting football. Someone is going to have to be more specific about what constitutes a long term plan for football at a school that needs to find 5-10 million just to continue functioning at the level they are at now. I do believe things will get better but UNO is light years away from a legitimate football discussion.

I disagree that there is no groundwork to lay. And saying we want football is important. It's the first step. But we have to mean it. Incorporate it into the athletic department strategic plan. Discuss it confidently when asked and challenged about it.

That certainly can be done by the powers that be in the near-term without taking resources away from solving the current fiscal crisis.

You raised a good question about whether football would bring in enough new students to make funding it worth it. But I guess I respond to that with a bit of a rhetorical question...why aren't basketball and baseball held to the same standard? If we asked that question of every sport, would we even have athletics?

Not asking that to be seriously answered. It's more that athletics in general is never going to be fully self-sustaining (other than for the Power 5). But still athletics is an important part of the college experience and football, more than most other sports, delivers that.

It's no secret that football continues to drive the shape and configuration of college athletics. The Power 5 have the power they have because of football. Conferences align, realign, form and disband based on football. As long as we don't offer it, we're just along for the ride. So it's not really just a luxury. It's in our long term best interest to have football.

And yes I do really believe that once we are past the current fiscal crisis that we can successfully raise money for it. I don't believe we are any less capable than our peer schools , that have successfully added it in the last ten years. We simply have more obstacles to overcome.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
PrivateerProject,Aug 24 2014
10:39 PM
I appreciate a well thought out response. I agree football among other things would enrich the student experience at UNO. I am not sure it would attract as many students as it would cost to implement.

I will say I wonder if your 3rd paragraph is serious? UNO will have cut somewhere in the range of 150 faculty and staff positions under Fos. That was one of the first cost cutting moves made every year.

Does UNO need to cut more faculty and staff with the new budget? Like any business you can only cut so deep before you get into the bone of the operation. The other question is what "profit" centers are not producing the expected benefit being a part of the university?

I see businesses look at very short term solutions to trim expenses but you can only cut maintenance for a very short period of time before you start to see real issues on a daily basis. The same goes for janitorial services. I would suspect offering fewer classes would also be seen as a cost cutting measure but how would that affect the student experience?

Does UNO have programs that are under performing or under producing that maybe need to be re tooled or abandoned? I would expect that some programs add a specific benefit to the community, like HRT and the Film program. We have solid programs in Education, Accounting and Engineering. I know I am leaving a few out but I believe you have to look at the benefit of the program to the entire University and not just as a stand-alone program.

If you use athletics as the example in this discussion, athletics is something that brings pride and recognition to the entire University. I would suspect that the academic side would beg to differ but I don’t see UNO’s English department getting the same press coverage as an athletic event. Nor do I see any other department, including our Colleges of Business, Education, Engineering or even our film program being featured. Yet play a high ranking team in sports and “God forbid” win, and the publicity is not only local or regional but nationwide.

My point is that you can’t just look at the dollars a program cost or brings in when you do an analysis of its worth. From a purely economic sense athletics is not a money producer, but could be if done right. Not many University athletic programs produce real tangible dollars to offset the bottom line, but many look at the entire scope of what an athletic program brings to the entire school.
Had UNO’s been playing football before the “storm of 2005” we would have had a fan base to help fight the cuts forced upon it by its former system.

When the club team played and the students had to “pay” to attend the games we had more student attendance at 4 or 5 club football games than the sum of all the student attendance (and most probably the entire fan base) for the rest of the annual home sporting events combined. That was a peak under the tent that proved that we could support a football program at UNO. It is not going to be easy but nothing at UNO has been easy. It is part of the fiber of the University, tough, resilant and not compromising.....and I hope we stay with that mentality.

My final point is that UNO needs to get their alumni excited about the future of UNO. Right now all they have heard is constant drumming of doom and gloom, budget cuts, student enrollment decline, layoffs, etc.

Maybe if UNO engaged in a real study of what it would take to have a football program play in the Southland and present that to the alumni base we could re-energize the fan base, the alumni, the business community and even the faculty as the potential that more students would attend UNO would help them with their job security for the long run. We don’t need to start playing next year or the next 3 years; however, a plan would give the community some insight that UNO is here for the long haul and that we see better days ahead.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Privateer6
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
The way we fund athletics won't support football. Student fees (at the current rate), even when we had 17,000 students, were not enough to fund football. The difference between 9K and 11K isn't terribly relevant as far as that goes.

Further, he wasn't likely planning to start football with money from the general fund, was he?

So, if he was serious about starting football only a year or two behind the announced DII schedule (or at all), he was planning to get money from other places that are not directly tied to state funding of the university or enrollment. Nobody thought UNO was going to "absorb" the cost of starting a football program. However, from reading the quotes above from 2012, there was reason to believe they intended to go out and get that money from somewhere.

As for "enrollment was at 10,000 and rising" when Fos was talking about football, that's just not the case (see below) -- in fact, it had just dropped under 11K for the first time. However, even if it magically rose to 17,000, there isn't enough money from student fees to start football, so that cannot be where he intended to get the money from.

If he meant it when he indicated that he intended to have football, he 1) presumably meant that the money was largely going to be raised from outside sources and 2) probably had an intention to change the way the university funded athletics (by, at minimum, increasing the athletic fee). Neither of those things have happened. Yes, the university has less money now (from the state and from tuition), but was there any indication that he meant football startup money to come from those sources anyway?

- - - - - -

http://www.uno.edu/institutional-research/...S-1958-2013.pdf

2006 -- 11,747
2007 -- 11,363
2008 -- 11,428
2009 -- 11,724
2010 -- 11,276
2011 -- 10,903
2012 -- 10,071
2013 -- 9,323
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PrivateerProject
Sophomore
[ *  * ]
1st off tremendous post. Very informative. 2nd I can only assume Dr. Fos thought there would be more University money to use to start football. He can decide to use University funds on athletics, he is not limited to only using student fees. That said obviously it would/will take outside funding to start football. But the difference between raising 5-6 Million and raising 10 million is very big. Lastly, yes enrollment was in decline but I don't think anyone predicted this many lost students in such a short time.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bill73
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
I once challenged the sports department at the New Orleans Advocate to research and write an article on the Wick Carey money, as it was disbursed to, and spent by UNO, LSU, Tulane and Texas. The public never got an accounting of the lump sum, and I believe the royalties are continuing. The Advocate dropped the ball.

If the football $nut seems unattainable, even though almost every university and high school in the state has it, we should start by counting what we have.

Also, if you want to easily make a donation, and are tired of waiting for the athletic department to remember your address, you can register here to contribute.
Alumni Giving

You can even dedicate your donation to only be used for a specific purpose. I wish I could say you can write in a category such as football. but the link no longer supports that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
PrivateerProject,Aug 25 2014
05:45 PM
1st off tremendous post. Very informative. 2nd I can only assume Dr. Fos thought there would be more University money to use to start football. He can decide to use University funds on athletics, he is not limited to only using student fees. That said obviously it would/will take outside funding to start football. But the difference between raising 5-6 Million and raising 10 million is very big. Lastly, yes enrollment was in decline but I don't think anyone predicted this many lost students in such a short time.

Has anyone looked at why the enrollment is dropping? Does the University have any idea of how to retain or grow the student population?

I know Dr. Fos added some people in recruitment and Student Affairs and now has a One Stop Shop which is a very good start. I do not believe anyone on this board is faulting Dr. Fos for the budget cuts but many of us have been long time UNO fans, as well as UNO alums, that want to see nothing but the best of the University.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]

A bit dated but here is a starting point to determine the cost of start up of football. I was thinking about how much it would cost to start and then how much to maintain.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ca...st-about-200k/1


How much does it cost to outfit a college football team? Just about $200K
Comments
By Tim Gardner, USA TODAY
Updated 2010-09-21 11:20 AM Ever wonder how much it costs for an athletics department to outfit a college football team?

Well, Terry Hutchens of the Indianapolis Star obviously did -- so he found out what Indiana University spends on the goods for its football team.

Most Division I football programs spend more than $100,000 to outfit their team. Add in practice gear, extra cleats, gloves and other miscellaneous items, and Indiana University's annual cost tops $200,000.

Here's some other tidbits:
- The most expensive players are offensive linemen since they usually wear knee braces that run around $1,200 a pop.
- Shoe sizes on the Hoosiers range from 9 to 17. Each player gets five pairs -- 3 for practice, 2 for games -- each season.
- Right tackle James Brewer says he goes through seven or eight pairs of gloves in a season.

Here's the Indy Star's list of the costs to outfit a single player:

-Helmet: $285
- Face mask: $20
- Mouth guard: $5
- Chin strap: $10
- Shoulder pads: $350
- Game jersey: $95
- Practice jersey: $40
- T-Shirts: $24 (2 shirts @ $12/ea.)
- Gloves: $200 (8 pairs @ $25/pair)
- Game pants: $85- Practice pants: $40
- Knee brace: $1,200 (2 @ $600/ea.)
- Pant pads: $20- Hex pad girdle: $32
- Shoes: $275 (5 pairs -- 3 for practice, 2 styles for games -- @ $55/ea.)
- Socks: $50 (10 pairs @ $5/ea.)

Total: $2,731

The best part may be what Indiana's director of football equipment Mitch Gudmundson said about eye black, with the NCAA has now prohited from having messages or area codes written on it. (Thanks, Tim Tebow)

"I bet we'll play the whole season and I won't go through one stick of the stuff this year." Gudmundson said.

-- Tim Gardner
Follow Tim on Twitter at @TimGardner_USAT


Here are a few bullet point items that will need to be addressed:

I am not sure if scholarships are part of this equation. I do not know how the accounting is handled by the UL system schools. Is it an athletic department expense or university expense?

• Coaching staff salaries
• Trainers
• Training room / locker room
• Additional staffing in Athletic Department, SID, admininistrative support,
• Weight room
• equipment room assistants

• Practice field
• additional facilitie employees to maintain field
• practice equipment


• Stadium

I am sure I left a few out but thought it might be a good exercise for those who want to to a study for the University for "free".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PrivateerProject
Sophomore
[ *  * ]
HBU said 10 Million. Plus 1-2 Mil per year to operate.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
PrivateerProject,Aug 27 2014
08:15 AM
HBU said 10 Million. Plus 1-2 Mil per year to operate.

I would love to see how the $10 million is allocated.

I assume it is for facilities and equipment.

Would it really cost UNO that much for a start up if the games are played at Tad Gormley?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PrivateerProject
Sophomore
[ *  * ]
Can't answer that. But their football stadium costs $105 Million. So I don't think the 10 Million is for a football stadium.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Slidell
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
$10 million wouldn't be for a stadium but there's probably some of that going into practice facilities (field prep, permanent field equipment, etc. and possibly new or renovated office/locker room space).

A big chunk of the start-up money goes to salaries in formation years. A head coach is usually the first hire and then he hires a staff. Other areas such as Sports Information have to expand in preparation for the new sports (women and men).

The initial recruiting budget can be higher in initial years than ongoing because you are starting from scratch.

Video equipment. Training equipment. Footballs, helmets, pads, etc.

That's before a single ticket is sold or guarantee game check is cashed.

No doubt the start-up cost can be staggering.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
PrivateerProject,Aug 27 2014
09:49 AM
Can't answer that. But their football stadium costs $105 Million. So I don't think the 10 Million is for a football stadium.

Dang! 105 million. Sounds like some of the high school stadiums in Texas.

I would be happy with a $10 milliion stadium on the east campus that would seat 10,000. We could always expand it over time.

I think Tulane's is in the $60-70 million range for 30,000 seats. Not a bad stadium from the pictures.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Privateer6
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
Two years ago, Southeastern University in Lakeland, Florida, proposed to build (for NAIA play) a 5,000 seater (set up with option to expand to 10,000) and an athletic building for $15M, of which the stadium is $8M.

"The stadium, with artificial turf, is budgeted at $8 million. A combination administrative building and athletic training center with the stadium is estimated at $7-8 million."

http://www.theledger.com/article/20120924/...29623?p=1&tc=pg

That article is from 2012. And guess what... they started the program. They'll play their first season starting in September.

The proposal was for an $8M stadium of 5,000. Their school website now calls it a $7M stadium of 3,500 in phase one of three phases.

Posted Image

http://www.seu.edu/about/construction/football-stadium/

Construction by the Numbers
•3,500 stadium seats (phase 1)
•3,200 square feet of team meeting space
•3 phases of construction
•1 collegiate football team in Lakeland

"Southeastern’s $7 million football stadium is scheduled to be completed in time for Fire football to play its first home game against Warner University on September 13, 2014. Phase one of this three-phase expansion project will include home and visitor grandstands to seat 3,500, team meeting rooms and sports lighting, as well as a press box, synthetic turf field and scoreboard. Support facilities include ticket booth buildings, concessions and restroom facilities."

http://fire.seu.edu/football/

Two years from proposal to brand new football team playing in a $7M brand new stadium. It can be done.

Gayle & Tom Benson Stadium at UIW started with a capacity of 3,000 and now is at 6,000. Can UNO really not find enough big donors.... possibly even the Bensons.... to create something similar on the Lakefront? Apparently, the Southland is okay with 5,000 or 6,000 seats, because that's what HBU and UIW have.

http://www.d2football.com/stadiums/incarnateword/t301/

Posted Image
(when it was a 3,000 seater for D2 football)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayle_and_Tom_Benson_Stadium

Strawberry Stadium is 7,400. Guidry Stadium is 10,500. UIW is 6,000. HBU is 5,000. Could we not get along with a 3,500-4,000 seater to start with, making tickets more scarce and encouraging season tickets, then expand to UIW/HBU/SLU size in a few years?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Privateer6
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve, you'll be pleased to know they're in a conference with Webber F International and old UNO football foe Edward Waters.

Posted Image

http://fire.seu.edu/football/2014/08/11/fi...c-coaches-poll/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
secoer
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
secoer,Aug 27 2014
12:15 PM
Dang! 105 million. Sounds like some of the high school stadiums in Texas.

I would be happy with a $10 milliion stadium on the east campus that would seat 10,000. We could always expand it over time.

I think Tulane's is in the $60-70 million range for 30,000 seats. Not a bad stadium from the pictures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manning_Field..._Guidry_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estes_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayle_and_Tom_Benson_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turpin_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBU_Stadium
I don't believe it is 105 million. I would expect it to be in the 7-10 million range from the footnotes


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotwell_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provost_Umphrey_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Bryce_Stadium
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PrivateerProject
Sophomore
[ *  * ]
You correct. I misread an article talking about HBU and UH. That said if HBu's start up costs included a stadium, it has yet to be built.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Privateer6
Member Avatar
Senior
[ *  *  *  * ]
HBU's 5,000-seat stadium opens in a few days. Their local NFL owner gave a $3M donation to help build it. Calling Mr. Benson.

http://www.khou.com/story/local/2014/08/28/12360090/

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-...b6-cbd24402b1f0
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · UNO Sports Main Board · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2