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| DK's Conceptualisations | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 16 2013, 09:44 PM (845 Views) | |
| the dark phoenix | Jan 23 2014, 10:50 PM Post #26 |
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the dark phoenix of wonderland
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Land turtles won't be affected I think. |
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| DK1000 | Jan 23 2014, 11:07 PM Post #27 |
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Turtles don't seem particularly specialised for any one kind of niche, and appear capable of adapting to all sorts of different feeding methods (including durophagy), so I doubt they'd be competing greatly, if at all, with placodonts. I think they were able to coexist for roughly 20 or so million years just fine anyway. |
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| the dark phoenix | Jan 24 2014, 12:49 AM Post #28 |
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I still see a certain island full of turtles but also with flightless pterosaurs, Giant tuataras, and where Pseudo-dinos flourish. But I don't know if New zealand or the Galapagos would be approved, let alone the idea itself. |
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| DK1000 | Jan 24 2014, 08:59 AM Post #29 |
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We're dealing with some pretty deep time here, Zealandia only became isolated some 60-85 million years ago, and the Galapagos only formed a mere 3-5 million years ago, we start roughly 220 or so million years ago while the continents are still a single landmass. We've got a fair way to go before we can think about modern landmasses. |
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| the dark phoenix | Jan 25 2014, 03:32 AM Post #30 |
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the dark phoenix of wonderland
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I know. It's just a thought. |
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| DK1000 | Feb 6 2014, 07:45 PM Post #31 |
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This next idea may well be proof that I have simply gone off the deep end. Spoiler: click to toggle This is a dracosuchid. A dracosuchid with four wings. They're small, I could imagine the largest being maybe about a foot or so in length, since I'm not sure if the design would be applicable for larger fliers. I'd imagine having four wings would increase their speed and agility in flight exponentially, and coupled in with their small size these things could be incredibly skilled fliers. Terrestrial capabilities are minimal, although by being small they may never need to come to the ground, instead clinging on to the sides of trees and rocks, perhaps even large animals, when resting, using the remaining four fingers and toes on each wing to hang on with large, hooked claws. Ecologically wise, I can picture these dracosuchids as being aerial insect hawkers, capable of chasing after even the most agile of insects. Others perhaps could feed on nectar from flowers, and maybe even a few haematophagous species too. It sounds pretty farfetched, but I think this could be a plausible design for a flying animal to eventually reach. We have got roughly 200 million years to experiment with dracosuchids after all, so I think there's potential for such a bauplan to evolve. Dracosuchid wing anatomy especially may lend itself to this sort of design, since the hind legs are entirely free of the wing membranes on the forearm, so evolving the legs into wings too wouldn't bugger up the wings on the arms in any way. So, could this work, or is this utterly ridiculous? |
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| the dark phoenix | Feb 6 2014, 09:29 PM Post #32 |
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I see that going in two directions. Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Jack Frost | Feb 8 2014, 04:52 AM Post #33 |
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Feel free. It'd be nice to have some help with the Dracosuchids. |
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| the dark phoenix | Feb 8 2014, 05:09 PM Post #34 |
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Would they have horns or crests? Also will they have skin with nothing on it or some type of croc quill? I noticed that all types of vertebrate flyers have some kind of insulation. I probably asked these before. I apologize if I'm being a pain again. Also what would fill the small flying animal niches?(crows, jays, parrots, ect) I think the dracosuchids should stay big in terror-bird, ratite, albatross, seagull, and Bird of prey niches while the pterosaurs exploit the smaller roles. Also if we ever attempt this idea, I can't picture a penguin dracosuchid. The closest I can get to that would be those outdated pics of flippered compies. |
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| DK1000 | Feb 8 2014, 06:13 PM Post #35 |
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Going by the existing profiles, some have horns, some have crests, and some have nothing. Again, going by the profiles, scales. However, the observation that all flying tetrapods have evolved some form of integument for insulation is very true, and it's definitely something we need to take into account. We should always be thinking of questions, it's the only way we'll make things more plausible and realistic. I'd have thought dracosuchids would probably be within that sort of size range, since that's the size they start out at. The earliest stem-dracosuchid currently appears roughly 185 mya, which gives pterosaurs a 30 million year head start ahead of the dracosuchids, so I doubt pterosaurs would be forced into exploiting smaller roles. However, the terrestrial side of ratites and phorusrhacids might come into play, as early dracosuchids do appear to be more terrestrial than pterosaurs were, so perhaps early dracosuchids should be compared more to "predatory galliformes" than corvids and psittacopasseraes. I've been doodling concepts for swimming dracosuchids, and one idea I've been toying with is turning the tall scutes on their tails into a proper fin for propulsion and steering, a la Vancleavea. That's my two pence. |
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| Jack Frost | Feb 8 2014, 06:25 PM Post #36 |
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As DK said it varies from genus to genus if crests or horns are present. It's worth noting costal genuses tend to lack crests compared to more terrestrial genuses. As I said with Oriensdracus, costal genus's are leaning towards smooth skin. Since the Triassic and Jurassic were more tropical than later on and they are more social they can afford to be. As for size they don't get much bigger than the next one I have planned. As a general rule costal dracosuchids are smaller than terrestrial ones. |
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| DK1000 | Apr 11 2014, 11:16 PM Post #37 |
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And there was me thinking a marine reptile with a tubular carapace made up of ribs and osteoderms was original. |
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| Dilophoraptor | Apr 12 2014, 03:30 PM Post #38 |
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Reader of Minds and Stealer of Souls
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Goes to Show that the Triassic is a place where Evolution was tossing the most random ideas out. |
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| Jack Frost | Apr 15 2014, 03:50 PM Post #39 |
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I swear if they find real dracosuchids I will scream. |
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| DK1000 | Apr 15 2014, 09:16 PM Post #40 |
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Here's hoping. |
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| Dilophoraptor | Apr 16 2014, 02:48 AM Post #41 |
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Reader of Minds and Stealer of Souls
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I had an idea for your shuvosaurids DK What about Predatory ones using the Large Spurs for hunting. |
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| DK1000 | Apr 16 2014, 03:20 AM Post #42 |
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As kick-arse as that sounds, I don't think it would be a feasible hunting strategy for a hunter of other cursorial animals. The only way I can think they'd be able to use the spur would be if they were somehow able to get in front of their prey and kick at them from the side. They wouldn't be able to use them from behind for obvious reasons, and if they were running along side their prey they couldn't kick because that would mean they'd have to stop running. The spur could be of potential use on smaller animals that don't require being chased down, though. A powerful kick combined with the spur could easily kill a small prey item on the spot. My original plan was for them to occasionally prey on insects and small reptiles, but with this in mind they could potentially prey on animals of a more substantial size from time to time. I doubt a fully carnivorous species of cursorial shuvosaurid would work, but they could have a "darker side" to them as has been suggested for ceratopsians. |
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| Dilophoraptor | Apr 16 2014, 01:04 PM Post #43 |
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Reader of Minds and Stealer of Souls
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Sounds ok. I do like the "Darker" side of Ceratopsians, so it sounds like a good replacement |
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| DK1000 | Aug 13 2014, 04:46 AM Post #44 |
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We interrupt your regularly scheduled nothing for some actual content. I've been thinking about dracosuchid integument lately, and I've came up with a quick sketch of something I have in mind: ![]() First and foremost, that is not an armless dracosuchid, I just left them out because the wings would obscure the anatomy. Moving on to the integument, I've chosen to give this dracosuchid a covering of simple monofilaments over the torso. The reason for this is that, as has been pointed out before, all known warm-blooded, flying animals have had some form of insulation in the form of filaments, be it hair, feathers or pycnofibres. Alligators have the gene for creating feathers, which implies that gene is ancestral to all archosaurs. Because dracosuchids have this gene, I think it is very likely they'd use it and develop a covering of insulation over their bodies (these filaments need a name, dracofibres maybe?) However, I've not only included filaments on this dracosuchid, I've also incorporated large, plated scales running down the topside of the animal, and the tail is entirely scaly with tall scutes (based on modern crocodiles). The legs are bare and covered with regular scales, along with some flaring scutes along the back. I know dracosuchids have been described as having smooth and scaly skin, but considering they're warm-blooded, are true fliers, and are capable of developing filamentous integument, I'd say it's nigh on inevitable they'd end up with some. Key word: some. Kulindadromeus has demonstrated that archosaur integument can be far more varied than we thought, and scales and filaments can coexist in a number of ways. That's why I figured it would be reasonable to give this dracosuchid some flat, plate-like scales running down the back and having the tail scaly, both of which I personally think give off a very crocodilian or draconian look. Kulindadromeus' insulatory feathers are limited to the face, neck and torso (and possibly the underside of the tail), with the upper arms and legs having display feathers and everything else scaly. I went for a similarly limited covering in this dracosuchid, with filaments only covering the main body, with everything else being nice and scaly. I think this makes a nice compromise, plus I think it makes our dracosuchids stand out more against the other Spec-Evo dragons. Another thing I've been thinking about is the dracosuchid hand. I recall the single wing finger of dracosuchids being made of the 5th finger so the rest of the hand could be used for grasping and wiggling and all that. However, as a rule, archosaurs only have claws on the first three fingers, which means dracosuchids would have an extra finger without a claw on their hands. An idea for what it could do that came completely out of nowhere was this: ![]() Essentially, the fourth finger has become flat and lobed, just like the toes of grebes or Hesperornis. The idea is that the finger can function just like an alula on a bird's wing. Birds use their alulae for generating lift while flying at a steeper angle than normal, and presumably dracosuchids could do the same with their fleshy-alula. As far as I'm aware, pterosaurs have no such feature, so an alula could potentially give dracosuchids more agility in the air than pterosaurs, but if not, it's still a useful piece of anatomy. Plus I think it would be another feature that would make dracosuchids stand out from the crowd. Thoughts? |
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| Dilophoraptor | Aug 14 2014, 02:56 AM Post #45 |
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Personally i like it alot, They feel more unique and from what you've shown entirely possible. I'll back up the idea. (also, could you let me know how my most recent idea looks, i've only gotten input from Frost) |
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| Jack Frost | Aug 15 2014, 04:58 AM Post #46 |
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I like the idea. It'd make for some interesting concepts for later Dracosuchids, and it actually helps get me out of my creative block. |
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| Dilophoraptor | Aug 17 2014, 11:37 AM Post #47 |
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Reader of Minds and Stealer of Souls
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Would the Arbrosuchoids also have "Dracofuzz" considering they are Sister groups? |
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| DK1000 | Dec 8 2014, 08:38 PM Post #48 |
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If we want, sure. We could potentially go so far as to say "sphenosuchians" had this fuzz in the first place. Also, I happened to be reading up on temnospondyls and found that juvenile metoposaurids were more terrestrially capable than the aquatic adults. Given amphibians' history with neoteny, how about some terrestrial, neotenous metoposaurs? |
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| the dark phoenix | Dec 9 2014, 07:39 PM Post #49 |
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the dark phoenix of wonderland
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I keep hearing somewhere that archosaurs as a whole had the feather gene only it was dormant in some branches. So "Dracofuzz" is a gene even found in real animals. Also I'm ok with the amphibians. BTW Salamanders appeared in the middle Jurassic, can a already present group replace them? |
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| DK1000 | Dec 10 2014, 02:08 AM Post #50 |
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My personal take on things was that the potential for filamentous integument goes back as far as reticula, which is why I found it reasonable to suggest "dracofuzz" in the first place, especially given their small endotherms that can fly. Key word there being "appeared", the fossil record for salamanders may begin in the middle Jurassic, but molecular clock estimates suggest that frogs and salamanders diverged from each other before the early Triassic during the Permian, so they were already present when this project begins (hence why they're on the list I made). Competition may not necessarily be a problem in this instance, as salamanders coexisted with a very similar (now extinct) group of amphibians called albanerpetontids for pretty much their entire existence until the last 2.5 million years, so another set of similar amphibians probably isn't going to be a big problem. When in doubt, niche partitioning. |
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