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The plan for the flying crocodiles
Topic Started: Jan 7 2014, 11:01 AM (164 Views)
Jack Frost
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So seeing how DK posted plans and ideas for his group, I thought it might be good for me to do the same. So first off, the true branch of the sphenosuchid decendents, the dracosuchids. As I said in the two species we have, the dracosuchids are going to branch off again into two more families. One branch, descended from Aethercleptis will eventually evolve into costal and oceanic piscivores, grabbing fish on the wing. I haven't come up with a name for them yet. The other, descended from Silvadon will evolve into forest and plain hunters, tackling pterosaurs, small dicynodonts and rauisuchids, and even other dracosuchids. I haven't come up with a name for them yet either.

Psuedodracosuchids on the other hand take a very different course, taking the role of early theropods at first, then evolving flight again, almost squeezing out early Silvadon descendants, only to fall to extinction by the end of the late jurassic.
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the dark phoenix
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Would we still have a lot of Holocene pterosaurs? Or will they slowly be replaced like birds?
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DK1000
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the dark phoenix
Jan 7 2014, 05:52 PM
Would we still have a lot of Holocene pterosaurs? Or will they slowly be replaced like birds?
I could go on for quite a while about this, but I'll make it short and sweet:

Pterosaurs were not being replaced by birds.

I really want to hammer that point in, it's just such a huge and widely spread misconception.

I've even got a graph lying around that plots pterosaur and bird diversity against fossil-bearing formations, notice how pterosaur diversity is not appear to be affected by bird diversity, but both follow the rock availability. Again, I really want to hammer that point in. I take my pterosaur business seriously.

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the dark phoenix
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DK1000
Jan 7 2014, 08:55 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 7 2014, 05:52 PM
Would we still have a lot of Holocene pterosaurs? Or will they slowly be replaced like birds?
I could go on for quite a while about this, but I'll make it short and sweet:

Pterosaurs were not being replaced by birds.

I really want to hammer that point in, it's just such a huge and widely spread misconception.

I've even got a graph lying around that plots pterosaur and bird diversity against fossil-bearing formations, notice how pterosaur diversity is not appear to be affected by bird diversity, but both follow the rock availability. Again, I really want to hammer that point in. I take my pterosaur business seriously.

I know that I just could not word it right

would pterosaurs die out was the main question.
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DK1000
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the dark phoenix
Jan 7 2014, 11:58 PM
I know that I just could not word it right

would pterosaurs die out was the main question.
Sorry, it's just my pterosaur business is srs bsns.

I personally doubt they'd die out, azhdarchids were doing well by the K-Pg so if that event never happened I'm sure they'd continue to thrive.
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the dark phoenix
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Would the rhampho's join in that success though?

I picture JF's Dracosuchids as sea eagles whereas I see the pterosaurs as seagulls, albatrosses, and terns

I'd like to see a draco or ptero penguin or auk.

We also found a swimming pterosaur somewhere in china so penguin-o-saurs might happen.
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DK1000
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the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
Would the rhampho's join in that success though?

I doubt it, rhamphorhynchids and nearly every other non-pterodactyloid pterosaur appear to have been outcompeted by the pterodactyloids.

the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
I picture JF's Dracosuchids as sea eagles whereas I see the pterosaurs as seagulls, albatrosses, and terns

Just switch the size ratios around and that sounds about right for the marine-pterosaurs/dracosuchids.

the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
I'd like to see a draco or ptero penguin or auk.

Pterosaurs never seem to have gone for that niche, and I can see dracosuchids moving into that niche more easily than pterosaurs, so that might be a possibility.

the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
We also found a swimming pterosaur somewhere in china so penguin-o-saurs might happen.

What pterosaur is this? A boreopterid?

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the dark phoenix
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DK1000
Jan 9 2014, 10:27 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
Would the rhampho's join in that success though?

I doubt it, rhamphorhynchids and nearly every other non-pterodactyloid pterosaur appear to have been outcompeted by the pterodactyloids.

the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
I picture JF's Dracosuchids as sea eagles whereas I see the pterosaurs as seagulls, albatrosses, and terns

Just switch the size ratios around and that sounds about right for the marine-pterosaurs/dracosuchids.

the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
I'd like to see a draco or ptero penguin or auk.

Pterosaurs never seem to have gone for that niche, and I can see dracosuchids moving into that niche more easily than pterosaurs, so that might be a possibility.

the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
We also found a swimming pterosaur somewhere in china so penguin-o-saurs might happen.

What pterosaur is this? A boreopterid?

indeed

link
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DK1000
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the dark phoenix
Jan 9 2014, 10:31 PM
DK1000
Jan 9 2014, 10:27 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
We also found a swimming pterosaur somewhere in china so penguin-o-saurs might happen.

What pterosaur is this? A boreopterid?

indeed

link
Thought so, although bare in mind with boreopterids their style of swimming would be rather different from penguins or auks. Their hind limbs are short, and the feet are absolutely miniscule, so punting around with their feet is out of the question. They're heads and necks are very elongated, with the neck being very flexible and the jaws packed with hundreds of long, slender teeth, so currently the most-likely lifestyle for boreopterids is that they floated on the water's surface, shunting themselves along with their wings, and feeding on small prey items by reaching their heads down underwater. In a way, they seem more like ducks or swans rather than auks and penguins in terms of lifestyle. Of course, we need more boreopterid material to be absolutely sure of their palaeoecology, but that's what the current evidence seems to be telling us.
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the dark phoenix
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DK1000
Jan 9 2014, 10:42 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 9 2014, 10:31 PM
DK1000
Jan 9 2014, 10:27 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 8 2014, 12:21 AM
We also found a swimming pterosaur somewhere in china so penguin-o-saurs might happen.

What pterosaur is this? A boreopterid?

indeed

link
Thought so, although bare in mind with boreopterids their style of swimming would be rather different from penguins or auks. Their hind limbs are short, and the feet are absolutely miniscule, so punting around with their feet is out of the question. They're heads and necks are very elongated, with the neck being very flexible and the jaws packed with hundreds of long, slender teeth, so currently the most-likely lifestyle for boreopterids is that they floated on the water's surface, shunting themselves along with their wings, and feeding on small prey items by reaching their heads down underwater. In a way, they seem more like ducks or swans rather than auks and penguins in terms of lifestyle. Of course, we need more boreopterid material to be absolutely sure of their palaeoecology, but that's what the current evidence seems to be telling us.
So pterosaurian ducks?

Sounds brilliant!
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DK1000
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the dark phoenix
Jan 13 2014, 05:39 PM
So pterosaurian ducks?

Sounds brilliant!
Pterosaurian Swans would probably do them more justice ;) .
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the dark phoenix
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DK1000
Jan 13 2014, 07:31 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 13 2014, 05:39 PM
So pterosaurian ducks?

Sounds brilliant!
Pterosaurian Swans would probably do them more justice ;) .
Even more brilliant.


Due to pterodastro can we have pterosaurian flamingos?
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Jack Frost
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WELL I SCREWED UP ROYALLY. I'm currently in the process of making the newest Dracosuchid and I was looking at the others to get a good idea of when I should place it and I realized I've been putting them WAY too late in the time line. Instead of them evolving at the end of the late Triassic/ start of the early Jurassic, I put them right smack in the middle of the early cretaceous.
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the dark phoenix
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I'm sorry I start laughing after I read ROYALLY.

Posted Image

Cretaceous Dracosuchid: Who are you
Triassic Dracosuchid: I'm your granpa.
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Jack Frost
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The mistakes have now been corrected, and the new one should be up soon.
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DK1000
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It might be worth bringing up that the lobes and vanes present on the tails of long-tailed pterosaurs weren't used as rudders or for steering, and appear to be have been purely visual structures. In the same vein*, dracosuchids wouldn't have needed elongated neural scales along their tails for flight either.

(*Heh heh)
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the dark phoenix
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DK1000
Jan 31 2014, 12:32 AM
It might be worth bringing up that the lobes and vanes present on the tails of long-tailed pterosaurs weren't used as rudders or for steering, and appear to be have been purely visual structures. In the same vein*, dracosuchids wouldn't have needed elongated neural scales along their tails for flight either.

(*Heh heh)
Then why not for display?
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DK1000
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the dark phoenix
Jan 31 2014, 03:19 AM
Then why not for display?
A very viable alternative use, however I wanted to make this point because it is specifically stated that the raised scutes of dracosuchids are used for steering in many of the profiles.
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the dark phoenix
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DK1000
Jan 31 2014, 08:02 PM
the dark phoenix
Jan 31 2014, 03:19 AM
Then why not for display?
A very viable alternative use, however I wanted to make this point because it is specifically stated that the raised scutes of dracosuchids are used for steering in many of the profiles.
When I guess it's the type of display that's designed to not hinder flight. It might aid in steering but not a lot.
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Jack Frost
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So I finally got off my lazy ass and made a cladograph for the dracosuchids.

Posted Image
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DK1000
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I've been waiting for a good excuse to bring this thing up and I think this is the right time:

The Names on Nodes Text Tree Maker

Basically this application lets you put in a Newick tree string which can then be converted into a text tree. It can take a bit of time figuring out just how a Newick string works but I've been mucking about with this for a bit and I think I'm getting the hang of it. Here's how your cladogram of dracosuchids and kin looks as a text tree:

Posted Image

Unfortunately, you can't copy-paste the trees since they get a tad mucked up (might be something to do with ZB), so they have to be screenshotted.
Here's the Newick tree string I put in for future reference:

Code:
 
(Arbrosuchoidea,((((Aitherclepthis eres,Oriensdracus aecor),(Camposuchus rex,Silvadon gigas)),Pseudodracosuchus sanies),(Pseudodracosuchidae,Pseudodracus delus)))

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