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Dilo's Idea Bazzar; Just throwing them out there
Topic Started: Feb 9 2014, 01:22 AM (1,214 Views)
Dilophoraptor
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DK1000
Feb 18 2014, 08:33 AM
So they're lophocratian pterodactyloids?
That name only shows up as a Synonym, care to explain what it is please?
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DK1000
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Depending on the classification you use, lophocratia is either a synonym of pterodactyloidea or a clade of pterodactyloids (lophocratia is a valid clade in Unwin's classification, which is the one I tend to remember). In this case, lophocratia refers to all pterodactyloids with a soft-tissue crest of keratin, which would be ctenochasmatoids, dsungaripteroids and azhdarchoids.
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Dilophoraptor
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Ah. i guess So, i never really decided.
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Dilophoraptor
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Posted Image

The Caped Struthiosuchus, a fine animal, I assume its the Cretaceous, as the Moon is still scarred from the Impact, On the Plains, this creature runs across the plains of The Americas, Hunting its fast prey, Antlered Silesaurs and some smaller animals of its own kind. The Family seems to span the americas and Africa.

So Struthiosuchus is pretty much the Equivalent of Abelisaurus and Cheetahs, Taking down quick prey animals, and even smaller of its own kind. Not sure if it should be an advanced Arbrosuchoid, or a Rauisuchid.
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the dark phoenix
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Looks like a alverosaur mixed with allosaur.
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Dilophoraptor
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the dark phoenix
May 12 2014, 06:01 PM
Looks like a alverosaur mixed with allosaur.
The Point. You get it.
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the dark phoenix
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I clearly have been away too long. What is a Arbrosuchoid?

Also when I have time I'll finish a few more Ichthyosaurids, Geosuchids, Silesaurids, and the Fictodilophids.
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Dilophoraptor
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the dark phoenix
May 27 2014, 02:00 AM
I clearly have been away too long. What is a Arbrosuchoid?

Also when I have time I'll finish a few more Ichthyosaurids, Geosuchids, Silesaurids, and the Fictodilophids.
http://s13.zetaboards.com/Project_MesozoicNova/topic/7170459/1/#new its just synonymous with Arbrosuchaids
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Dilophoraptor
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I actually have a Question.

not sure if its been thought of for the project or not, but what if trilobites survive their extiction?
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the dark phoenix
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They all died out during the great dying...

Also the arbrosuchids are like scaly Felines, Pantherids, and Procyonids?

Geosuchids might prey on the small Procyonids but they could intern be preyed upon by by the big cat analogs.

What about the archosaurs that were already giant superpredators like postosuchus and saurosuchus?
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Dilophoraptor
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Well, there is always a chance the could have, i just threw it out there because of that.

And thats just one part of the Arbrosuchoids tree, there are other forms that might be planned later.

and what about Posto and Sauro?
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Dilophoraptor
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Speaking of Arbrosuchoids, any other idea's for what they could converge to? We already have Cat and Ape like ones, but what else could there be if at all?
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the dark phoenix
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The posto and sauros could possibly get bigger and nastier then they already are then go extinct.

While the big guys are still around though, things like dracosuchids could be considered the underdogs, When they go extinct, these guys could then take over as the giant nightmares of the world.

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DK1000
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The concept of Struthiosuchus, as in, a bipedal, cursorial pseudosuchian, sounds good to me. I can't see anything that would prevent such a thing from occurring. As for what they are (raisuchid or arbrosuchid), I'd say the design you've drawn up looks more like it came from a rauisuchid than a sphenosuchian, although their body plans could very well change from what they were like in the Triassic.

One thing I'd like to point out is that potentially bipedal rauisuchids like Postosuchus have pretty titchy hands and arms, so I'd think they'd be more inclined to develop vestigial arms than terrestrial arbrosuchids, which would already have long arms and hands considering they were arboreal.

I don't really have much else to add to this, although as a little tip for when drawing pseudosuchians, the hallux-type toe goes on the outside of the foot in pseudosuchians, rather than the inside. The legs in the drawing also look pretty short and stocky for a cursorial predator as well, I should add.



As for trilobites, I'd say we should stick with them being extinct. Changing the P-T extinction so that trilobites make it would have the butterfly effect of allowing a lot of other things to pull through too, so then we'd be dealing with a "no P-T" project instead (a project for another day, perhaps).

I've also been thinking about jokers as well, and I think we might be able to find a more plausible origin for them rather than the lophocratian pterodactyloid identification I put forward earlier, but I'll make a post about that a bit later.
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Dilophoraptor
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DK1000
Jun 14 2014, 11:09 PM
The concept of Struthiosuchus, as in, a bipedal, cursorial pseudosuchian, sounds good to me. I can't see anything that would prevent such a thing from occurring. As for what they are (raisuchid or arbrosuchid), I'd say the design you've drawn up looks more like it came from a rauisuchid than a sphenosuchian, although their body plans could very well change from what they were like in the Triassic.

One thing I'd like to point out is that potentially bipedal rauisuchids like Postosuchus have pretty titchy hands and arms, so I'd think they'd be more inclined to develop vestigial arms than terrestrial arbrosuchids, which would already have long arms and hands considering they were arboreal.

I don't really have much else to add to this, although as a little tip for when drawing pseudosuchians, the hallux-type toe goes on the outside of the foot in pseudosuchians, rather than the inside. The legs in the drawing also look pretty short and stocky for a cursorial predator as well, I should add.



As for trilobites, I'd say we should stick with them being extinct. Changing the P-T extinction so that trilobites make it would have the butterfly effect of allowing a lot of other things to pull through too, so then we'd be dealing with a "no P-T" project instead (a project for another day, perhaps).

I've also been thinking about jokers as well, and I think we might be able to find a more plausible origin for them rather than the lophocratian pterodactyloid identification I put forward earlier, but I'll make a post about that a bit later.
(Thanks for the Drawing Tip)
Struthiosuchus Being a Rauisuchid does sound good, especially if its evolved from Postosuchus like creatures, the arms are pretty Rex Like already.

I was just thinking as they were somewhat likely able to survive, thats why i popped the question.

and i can't wait to hear about what you plan to do to help the Jokers


Thanks for your import overall, i'll probably Redraw Stuthiosuchus, and some relatives(mostly the Robust ones)

Edit:
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it may be abit small, but here are (hopefully) better drawn Struthiosuchaids.
The First one is another Struthiosuchus Species, pretty much the same as the Caped Struthiosuchus, likely another African Species.
The largest one is a Redesign of Charcharasuchus terra(originally Charcharadontosuchus), Living in Africa, hunting the Megafauna of the Continent.
The last two are Paradise Struthiosuchaids, living in Madagascar, the one on the Left is the Breeding Male, the one on the right is a Muted Male, changing colours during breeding season.
Edited by Dilophoraptor, Jun 15 2014, 07:10 AM.
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DK1000
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Looks good! The colours around the shoulders and arms are quite eye-catching, is there some form of display function going on with them?

By the way, I noticed you compared the struthiosuchids to abelisaurids as fast-running, pursuit predators in the same vein as cheetahs. However, no abelisaurid is really suited for that sort of pursuit lifestyle, even Carnotaurus couldn't have been a pursuit predator despite its reputation as a speed demon. See, the large caudofemoralis muscles of Carnotaurus helped increase its acceleration, while its top speed was determined by its athletic index. The athletic index of Carnotaurus is comparable to those of tyrannosaurids (e.g. Daspletosaurus), which while fairly fast for large theropods, isn't that of a "speed demon", and Carnotaurus probably had a top speed of around 40 km/h. Pursuit predators typically have a top speed over 50-55 km/h, and can endure running at those speeds for quite some distance, while Carnotaurus wasn't built for endurance at all. It looks more like Carnotaurus was better suited for ambushing prey with a sudden burst of speed, accelerating to high speeds very quickly before the prey has time to accelerate itself.

If that's the sort of niche you want for the struthiosuchids, then the abelisaurid comparison is fine. However, if you want them to be cursorial, pursuit predators, I'd recommend giving them similar leg proportions to juvenile tyrannosaurids, like Jane.
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Dilophoraptor
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The Shoulders and Face are used for Display among Males, and most are usually muted after Breeding Season.

Ya, i wasn't really thinking of most of them actually getting to speed demon status, just some getting close enough to catch desired prey, the more Robust Struthiosuchaids are more of an ambush predator, if they are able to of course. There probably will be Slimmer Struthiosuchiads in the future to be more pursuit predators. Overall, id figure they could span from Small Runners to the Large Brutes, at least in Africa and the Americas.
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Well, i had NO excuse for not doing anything for a whole month (-4 days) so here is my Hideous creation that took 10 minutes total to think of and make, the Quickest i have made a creature.

So this is probably a digging or Nut Cracking dicynodont. i think i'll just leave dicynodonts to DK though because i have NO idea how to dicynodont.
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DK1000
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I think you've got dicynodonting down, you've definitely got all the wrinkles and folds I put on mine.

A nut-cracking dicynodont probably wouldn't be all that different from a typical dicynodont since they all have strong beaks and hugely powerful jaws in the first place, so they're already well suited for the task of eating tough plant material.

A dicynodont with a specialised beak and tusks for digging sounds interesting, though. Granted, it's thought they already used their tusks and beaks for rooting around in the soil, but I think a highly specialised form with a spade-shaped beak and tusks for really scooping up and turning over soil could work.

The problem is that aetosaurs are already in that sort of niche, rooting around in the soil and such, so these dicynodonts would probably have to evolve somewhere without any aetosaurs. The fact that aetosaurs have a near global distribution doesn't exactly help, but I've got another potential solution which I'll get to in the next post, which'll be about my ideas for the evolution of jokers.
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Dilophoraptor
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DK1000
Jul 12 2014, 03:38 PM
I think you've got dicynodonting down, you've definitely got all the wrinkles and folds I put on mine.

A nut-cracking dicynodont probably wouldn't be all that different from a typical dicynodont since they all have strong beaks and hugely powerful jaws in the first place, so they're already well suited for the task of eating tough plant material.

A dicynodont with a specialised beak and tusks for digging sounds interesting, though. Granted, it's thought they already used their tusks and beaks for rooting around in the soil, but I think a highly specialised form with a spade-shaped beak and tusks for really scooping up and turning over soil could work.

The problem is that aetosaurs are already in that sort of niche, rooting around in the soil and such, so these dicynodonts would probably have to evolve somewhere without any aetosaurs. The fact that aetosaurs have a near global distribution doesn't exactly help, but I've got another potential solution which I'll get to in the next post, which'll be about my ideas for the evolution of jokers.
Alright, i take it it'll be on your Topic? and i guess there might need to be some Ankycrocs to blow up.
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DK1000
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Right, so I've been going on about how I've got this idea for the jokers and never got around to posting it. Well, enough of all that farting about, here it is.

Rather than the lophocratian pterodactyloid placement I suggested earlier, I propose the jokers be a more basal lineage of pterosaurs. Specifically, I think they should evolve from Campylognathoides, or a similar, closely related pterosaurs.

Now comes the difficult part: writing out my explanation "why?" clearly and concisely—*collective gasps of shock and horror*.

First and foremost, I'd prefer the jokers to be descended from a more basal pterosaur because that way we can work with something within or at least closer to our Point of Divergence (late to end Triassic). Pterodactyloids first appeared just over 160 mya, 41 million years after the end of our PoD. Furthermore, the kind of crazy limb proportions seen in ornithocheiroids (culminating in Nyctosaurus) only appeared roughly 130 mya, 71 million years after our PoD. I'm not usually a stickler for the butterfly effect, but in this instance I feel that this is too long a gap to be assuming certain lineages would turn out exactly the same as they did. Who knows how pterosaurs will evolve differently, especially in the presence of another group of flying reptiles? Basal, non-pterodactyloid pterosaurs closer to the point of divergence I think would work as better candidates for the ancestors of jokers.

I already mentioned Campylognathoides as a good candidate for this ancestor, the main reason being the structure of its forelimb and wing. Of all the non-pterodactyloid pterosaurs, Campylognathoides has perhaps the most massive and robust forelimbs known, and the humeri and shoulders are incredibly strong and and muscular, so much so that Mark Witton describes Campylognathoides as looking "like a little pterosaurian gorilla". These abnormally powerful forelimbs are interpreted as allowing for "sustained, powerful flapping and rapid flight". I think we could use this powerful structure to our advantage, and make it the source of bipedalism in jokers. Their forelimbs are already very strong and powerful, so I wouldn't imagine it would be too difficult to support the entire body exclusively on them.

Some other notes about Campylognathoides that intrigue me are that while the hindlimbs are nowhere near as small compared to the forelimbs as in Nyctosaurus and other ornithocheiroids, their still proportionately small for a non-pterodactyloid pterosaur, which often have limbs of fairly similar lengths. Curiously, the fifth toe of Campylognathoides is unusually stunted, whereas other non-pterodactyloid pterosaurs have more elongate fifth toes. This toe supports the uropatagium (the membrane between the legs) in these forms, and while Campylognathoides almost certainly still possessed one, the implications of its stunted fifth toes are unclear. At the very least, I think it might make things easier when jokers to free up their legs from the membrane and use them for other purposes.

Admittedly, Campylognathoides doesn't have a soft-tissue crest like lophocratians, and the whole reason why I suggested a lophocratian ancestry was because the jokers possess a soft-tissue crest. In hindsight, I had completely forgotten that a few basal pterosaurs may well have had a soft-tissue crest too. Some species of basal pterosaur, like Austriadactylus and Caviramus, have thin, bony crests along the top of the snout with fibrous textures and margins. This type of crest is known in lophocratians to support the soft-tissue extensions, and it is used to infer the presence of a soft-tissue crest in species that do not preserve one. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that these two basal pterosaurs also supported soft-tissue crests. So while Campylognathoides itself does not have a bony crest, jokers could potentially develop their own crests, much like Austriadactylus and Caviramus. Remarkably, some species of pterodactyloid (like Pterodactylus) that don't have any bony crests do in fact possess a soft-tissue crest without any bony support, so even then it's possible Campylognathoides could have a soft-tissue crest this whole time, and we just never found it.

The only thing that bugs me about this is that Campylognathoides is 182 million years old, 19 million years after our PoD, so the butterfly effect might come into play here. However, the gap isn't as huge as it could be with other pterosaurs, and the split between Campylognathoides' ancestors and earlier pterosaurs occurred close to the beginning of the Jurassic, so at least its ancestors must have been around closer to our PoD. Apart from that, I think Campylognathoides would be the best candidate for the ancestor to the jokers.

This post has become a lot more long winded than I expected, so I think I'll make another post about the other thing I wanted to talk about, relating to both the jokers and that rooting-dicynodont. In fact I think I'll make it it's own separate topic, since it covers a pretty big scope.


Dilophoraptor
Jul 12 2014, 05:39 PM
Alright, i take it it'll be on your Topic? and i guess there might need to be some Ankycrocs to blow up.

If you mean the post on jokers, I think the answer that's pretty clear.

As for the aetosaurs, I'd rather like to keep them, but like I've said, I think the dicynodont can still be worked in, but I'll cover that in the other topic, along with the rest of the joker stuff.

By the way, here's the Campylognathoides diagram from "Pterosaurs", so you can check out it's anatomy yourself:

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Dilophoraptor
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i was just saying that we could cause something to a portion of aetosaurs, not all of them. just a population.

im all for the little Pteorilla being the Jokers grandmama, i guess its just the fact its younger than the start of the project is a bit of a pain, but i think if it was far enough away from the flightcrocs it could be at least a very similar animal. Also, maybe the Jokers could have somewhat complex vocals (if the would even have a process in which to do that), they could laugh like kookaburras or something to make the name still seem valid enough.
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Dilophoraptor
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On another note, a Longisquamaid mimicking a made up plant, more just to show the idea more than for accuracy, using this, its about to strike an insect out of the air.
Edited by Dilophoraptor, Jul 12 2014, 09:59 PM.
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the dark phoenix
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The skeleton shows good claws and feet for climbing I think that would do better than a tail.

Also DK I'd like to speak to you as soon as you are able to do so. We are almost done with lists at the Dinosaurian spec and I'd like to know of you want to stay in the project or not.

I'm also thinking of asking frost too since both of you are busy with your own things and I don't want to be annoying in asking for updates and stuff.
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Dilophoraptor
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TDP we don't even have Material of the Tail AFAIK, so i could be Good for Holding its Place as it hunts, it wouldn't have good reach if it used its claws to hold on for this behavior, Unless it Flung itself off, but then again, it would fall, which would Push for some sort of Gliding Membrane, and i'm pretty sure we don't want to pull a David Peters.
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