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| Pacific Islanders | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 22 2016, 11:58 AM (427 Views) | |
| Saints2000 | Sep 22 2016, 11:58 AM Post #1 |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37340730 Quite topical given Saints recent signings |
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| ElmaFudd | Sep 22 2016, 01:36 PM Post #2 |
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Thanks for this very interesting read. It's a situation that has been going on for a long time and world rugby seriously need to address it. The drain of talent due to lack of adequate funding is something that is relatively easy to address. I have long been an advocate of tours to the iselanss and would love for that to happen. |
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| Wibble | Sep 22 2016, 01:43 PM Post #3 |
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This will always happen when you have nations with a lot of natural talent and little money. New Zealand have been doing it forever. Australia too. The NH clubs are the latest to the party and it has ramped up a lot the past few years. I think the best way to help would be to put money into these nations. Not just an international tour (although if each of the home nations just played one game per year while down that way it would help a lot) but more interaction with the clubs too. Its all very well inviting the Argentines to join the SANZAR club but there are other countries near by that need to be included first. |
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| happyclapper | Sep 22 2016, 08:47 PM Post #4 |
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I agree, it needs to be fixed. I see no harm in seeing each NH team has to play one island team each summer. Better than some of the other pointless fixtures. Or, controversially, maybe it's team for a joint team for them and for the IRB to put some money in... I know all the args against it but something needs to be done. |
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| Saints2000 | Sep 23 2016, 12:32 AM Post #5 |
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It is about time World Rugby took the Pacific teams more seriously and offered them some meaningful test matches at home rather than them having to play all the tier one teams away from home where their own fans are denied the opportunity to see some of the worlds best players. If World rugby are serious about expanding the game they have got to make it more accessible at all levels. If, for example, as well as encouraging the NH teams to include an Islands team in their summer tours, the Lions played one or two of their warm up matches against Fiji, Tonga, Samoa or even the combined Pacific Islanders team each time they visited NZ or Aus that would boost the game in the Pacific and encourage home grown players to stay and play for their native country. As well as this the farcical registration system based on residency has got to change. Edited by Saints2000, Sep 23 2016, 12:38 AM.
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| big mac returns | Sep 23 2016, 09:07 AM Post #6 |
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Ultimately i think its more complicated then simply getting the big boys to play a test against one of the pacific nations once a year. the problem stems far more into the country's economic status. There is real poverty in these areas and kids see rugby in New Zealand or Australia as a way out. an interesting book giving a view point for the issues in the area is the Life of Mark Hunt, Born to Fight. There is also the issue of who is controlling the team and the funding. they are very proud nations and wont left anyone be involved in running/coaching their national teams unless they live on the islands, this is a major blocker in terms of getting the best talent to organise the structure, meaning perhaps they are not the best run teams around. for me the first step would be a super rugby side, moving around the islands, from their more test matches and the development of the pacific nations cup. Japan, USA, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, could really tap into the new tv markets of Japan and US to generate some income. however super rugby is simply too big at the moment, there are far too many teams id like to see that tournament re structured aswell. but ultimately i think there needs to be a upgrade in the coaching and administration of the set ups, they need a clive woodward or a graham henry to come into the picture and help with the set up. |
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| Wibble | Sep 23 2016, 10:22 AM Post #7 |
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The problems with creating a Pacific Islands Team are probably similar to The West Indies suffer in cricket. We only have to get all the home nations to cooperate once every 4 years for the Lions., and thats no picnic. |
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| big mac returns | Sep 23 2016, 12:29 PM Post #8 |
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I dont think internationally they should play as one side, however i think a super rugby side representing the area would be a good start. |
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| Wibble | Sep 23 2016, 01:04 PM Post #9 |
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Fair enough. That could work. |
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| happyclapper | Sep 23 2016, 02:15 PM Post #10 |
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I think one comes with the other! You play in the Championship and you get team(s) in Super Rugby. |
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| Saints2000 | Sep 24 2016, 02:03 AM Post #11 |
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To be able to develop the Pacific teams you have got to offer top flight rugby in their own back yard. Creating Super Rugby teams as individual nations or as a combined Islands team is possibly one way of doing it. However the financial rewards would have to match those of the already established Super teams otherwise the exodus of players will continue. Mac you are right, development of the game in the Pacific is not going to be easy given their limited resources. However, guaranteeing regular home test matches against tier 1 nations with appropriate remuneration would work wonders in encouraging players to play for their country of birth rather than them taking advantage of the very flimsy overseas registration rules that currently exist. If this means World Rugby have to subsidise the wages of Pacific Island players then so be it if that means they will stay and play for their own country. |
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| big mac returns | Sep 26 2016, 01:09 PM Post #12 |
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obviously Argentina were introduced to the championship before they got a super rugby side, and japan currently have a super rugby side yet are not in the championship. I think a super rugby side and the development into the US and Japanese markets could be a real factor in helping these nations, not just to develop as rugby sides but also to boost their economy and do some really beneficial work. With that a US team in super rugby would also help. that tournament would need a real shake up though. I agree more tests and potentially world rugby subsidisation is a good option for their development as national sides, however we still run into the issue of the extreme poverty in the area, ultimately there is not enough money in the countries to support a professional rugby side. you would imagine the income for the side would be based on mostly tv income, this would mean the club would struggle to attract top players, it could however still in my opinion develop a strong academy and fashion a competitive side, if set up correctly. with regard to stopping people leaving to go abroad, it is going to be very hard to get enough money to compete, so we get into the morale dilemma of why would we stop a human being moving abroad to earn as much money as he can for his family.....Its a really tricky one, can we really say no you cant keep doing what you are doing as ultimately it is pulling people out of poverty. Edited by big mac returns, Sep 26 2016, 01:12 PM.
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| happyclapper | Sep 26 2016, 11:51 PM Post #13 |
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Sorry Mac, had no idea Japan were in the "Super" rugby these days. And thought the Argies got both at the same time. With rugby, cricket and other hobbies, I simply don't have the time to follow SH as closely as I'd like. I think we're all agreed something needs to happen and the islands need more money. |
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| big mac returns | Sep 27 2016, 09:02 AM Post #14 |
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I've been into Super rugby since the good old days of Roff, Larkham and Gregan, Its very sad the amount of rugby I watch i'll admit, even sadder when you take into account its not only only sport i follow avidly. but if i dont watch it live it gives me something to do on the train into work and it probably is the highest standard rugby in the world. if i cant watch every game i'll make sure i watch the brumbies at least. Like I said very sad, however I do have some career aspirations that I'd like to utilise it for. I'm fairly sure theres been 5 rugby championships however the jaguares have only had one season in super rugby. |
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| happyclapper | Sep 27 2016, 12:16 PM Post #15 |
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I did watch a fair bit when in SA but that's about it. No time for any more sadly. It seems you're right re the number of champs and Jaguares and Sunwolves. |
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| big mac returns | Oct 14 2016, 10:21 AM Post #16 |
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update I dont know if people have seen, but a fijian side funded by World Rugby will play in the Australian NRC with the long term goal of a Super rugby franchise. Glad to see something is being done, I think this will be a tremendous success not just improving fijian rugby by curbing the loss of talent but also helping their economy ever so slightly. |
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| happyclapper | Oct 14 2016, 10:27 AM Post #17 |
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Do you know how it will work? I.e. can they only select Fijian players? Or are they free to trade like all other sides? Will they be based in Fiji or will they have to play home games in Aus? Does sound like a step in the right direction though... |
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| big mac returns | Oct 14 2016, 11:05 AM Post #18 |
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still very early in the development i think, the only news is that they will be based in fiji and will play its games there, and its designed to stop local players leaving for foreign teams, therefore i imagine it will be a 100% Fijian side. and they will be called the warriors "The NRC outfit will become Fiji’s first ever professional provincial rugby side, and will be comprised entirely of local players from the Fijian national second XV, the ‘Fiji Warriors’, and will play their home matches in the island nation." Edited by big mac returns, Oct 14 2016, 11:07 AM.
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| happyclapper | Oct 14 2016, 12:06 PM Post #19 |
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Sounds good to me! I might plan an away day there... ;-) |
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| Saints2000 | Nov 17 2016, 11:55 PM Post #20 |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04gsjrx If this is accurate the RFU and World Rugby should be ashamed of themselves |
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| happyclapper | Nov 18 2016, 01:11 AM Post #21 |
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It was brought up on Rugby Tonight as well, it is accurate I believe and it is very disgraceful! How, on one hand, can they discuss growing the global game (US, Japan, China etc) whereas they can't even look after the current teams they have. Fix what is there first, then they might find the game naturally grows. Imagine Fiji, Samoa and Tonga with more of their player playing for them, properly funded at the next World Cup. There are some very simple ways to start to redress this... 1) Give the visiting teams some of the money. 2) When NH go South, they must play one Island team on their Island. There are three island teams, and 6 NH teams - simple maths... Each island would get two home games a year and some much needed cash injection into their system. Last time England played in Fiji? When Bayfield got his first cap!!!! |
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| danjsaints | Nov 18 2016, 10:32 AM Post #22 |
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Completely agree, it's a disgrace. I understand these countries are often suffering from their own problems which may make a fixture unattractive, but that's not the point. Send a test side over there, WR can stump up a bit of cash to cover costs and/or offer cheap tickets if they're worried it won't sell out due to low income. Samoa's national stadium has a capacity of 15,000 and Fiji can accommodate 19,000. Yes that's not a huge number, especially compared with the venues they're playing in America but it's certainly nothing to be sniffed at and is a darn sight better than a lot of Premiership teams can manage. |
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| Wibble | Nov 18 2016, 10:55 AM Post #23 |
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Well, If australia, South africa and New Zealand joined in also they could get 3 home games a year. That would make a massive difference not just to there rugby teams but due to the way the players support there whole family it would help whole communities. You would have to price the tickets right but the way rugby fans follow their teams you would get a good few away fans too putting money into hotels and local bars :-) World rugby is too protectionist. Its all about making the big boys more money. The fans just want to watch good rugby, and even though they wont win all the time we know that these team play good rugby and are fun to watch. |
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| happyclapper | Nov 18 2016, 11:56 AM Post #24 |
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I agree with all of that. And a couple of years ago, I would have happily taken a holiday out to the islands to watch England play one of them. And then island hopped to the others if other teams were playing. Mrs Clapper and I regularly go to away games for our anniversary, I'm sure I could have persuaded her to do a summer holiday!!! I'm just not sure what we, the rugby supporters, can do to pressure world rugby into doing something. Maybe we can pressure the England players into given some of their match money away? Or making a gesture before the game - warming up in t-shirts with a message of support on? |
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