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Dylan's Ban; 6 Weeks
Topic Started: Dec 14 2016, 06:54 PM (333 Views)
happyclapper
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38298026

About as expected.
Think he pleaded guilty to get it over and done with and to keep the ban as small as possible.
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Notso Talented Local
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Not being a cynic but, I wonder what the ban would be if he wasn't England's captain?
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ElmaFudd
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And if the 6 nations wasnt starting in roughly 6 weeks?

But HC you are right. No point pleasing not guiltily at these things as all it does is lengthen the ban
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happyclapper
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Cynicism allowed!
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big mac returns
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One word.....farce
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danjsaints
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A friend who knows the squad bet me in the summer that Dylan wouldn't play more than 9 games for us this season. Think he might be onto something...
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Bedford Saint
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Damn, I thought he might get away with 4 weeks, the stars were aligning with both Ritchie and Woodward defending Dylan.

As he has nothing else to do, could Dylan coach the backs for the next 6 weeks ???

Haven't posted this week as I have been desperately trying to think of something sensational to say that would turn our season around and end up with us winning the premiership. Still thinking !!

Time for everyone to stand up and be counted, even if as a player you think the coach is a clown, play for personal pride and lets win in Dublin. Dylan should be there as waterboy, its the least the fans and players deserve.
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happyclapper
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Not sure of a farce Mac. Letter of the law, he swung an arm and it connected with a head, resulting in concussion.
However, I'd have thought it was a lower entry point given the fact the player fell into it.
I would have thought 3-4 weeks about right.
Although to counter my argument Dan and join you with the "farce" camp.
Take a look at this rather sensational video on the beeb:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38323316

Now ignore the fact that it's clearly pushing its own agenda to get Dylan out of the captaincy, if you look on 12s you see a still of where his arm starts and on 15s a still of where it ends up. None of these show a high tackle and the second shows his arm clearly wrapping!

Hmmmm....
Edited by happyclapper, Dec 15 2016, 01:11 AM.
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ElmaFudd
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That is a truely awful video and typical of the BBC these days reporting only one side and pushing an agenda.
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big mac returns
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i personally think that hartley has been harshly treated through out his career.

gouging, fair enough 26 week ban, i think is correct, no place for it. but that i think set him off on the wrong foot.

the headbutting v George wasnt a head butt!!! he walked into him.

the biting was a farce, heaslip had his arm in his mouth, its not like hartley moved his head to bite him like ashtons (which for me is another man who has been wrongly treated by the committee), he a mans hand rammed down his throat.

punching was at the gardens, he basically got full mount and went to town on best's head when were being embarrassed. correct to ban 2 weeks is fair enough. gone are the days when if u dont win the game u win the fight, i remember once julian white having a swing when it boiled over, white clocked him very well and asked if the ONE WEEK ban was worth it, he said yes. Maafu got one week fro dropping youngs.

and swearing, i mean come on, that was the barnes show, 11 weeks was insane, wonder is young mr davies will get that? he shouldnt. /he was correct barnes is a cheat and I am still convinced that when he said it he had direct eye contact with youngs. either way 11 weeks!!!!!!!!!

elbowing, was agaisnt leicester, i thought that was allowed? but fair enough three weeks for an elbow.


my major issue is the illogical times, against best he was actively on top of the man trying to hurt him, 2 weeks........the elbow v Leicester was not premeditated he lashed out...3 weeks....... the head butt wasnt event a head butt and george hardly felt it, 4 weeks.......verbal abuse that has a legitimate defence and no one got hurt 11 weeks.....MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE!!!!

also no case of a man has served his time! hes made errors which happens when youre playing on the line (johnson was banned all the time) and in some cases hes been rightly punished and if other cases they have stuck the proverbial boot into him, but there is just no consistency, if men cant miss time tackles without getting a six week ban what have we become!!!
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happyclapper
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It is terrible Elms. But what gets me is that with those photos, I am not sure how anyone could have given it as a high tackle. Swinging arm, yes, but high tackle, no. And given the new directive explicitly saying that leniency should be given if a player falls into it, then why wasn't that taken into account this time.

Mac, I can defend most of his bans as well:

Gouging - no proof, none whatsoever. You have two players saying they were gouged by Hartley. Other than the marks on their faces, no video proof and Hartley denied it.

Headbutting - agree, it wasn't headbutt but a coming together of heads. Nothing more.

Biting - agree, farce. Somone has your fingers in their mouth, which the fella admitted to, you have a chomp.

Punching - fair cop. Small ban, move on.

Swearing - difficult one. Ref handled it very badly. There was no real warning just a "you can't talk to me like that". There was no real proof that he said it at Barnes, it could have been directed at anyone.

Elbowing - he was being pulled from behind, he swung his arm backwards to get someone off him and it happened to connect with his face. No intent, not an elbow. You can clearly see from the evidence that his arm was straight.

I agree though, it all makes no sense to me.
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Wibble
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We need a new Hooker.

Now i love Dylan, Hes the best (or at least top 3) Captain we have ever had. He is a great player and i dont want to loose him or have him playing against us BUT value for money he is not and he will always be judged on previous issues. Thats not fair and it should not happen but it does. With my "Saints first" Hat on we need someone who will be available for not just a few more games but the big games. Dylan is either with England or Banned too often. We need to bring in someone else to replace him (or as backup to Mikey who is awesome).

For me he needs to put all his effort into motivating the lads. He should help West out with coaching the forwards for the next 6 weeks, play waterboy and generally gee up the lads.

I dont think we will see much more of Dylan this season.
Just to say, We dont need to just chuck Dylan out... but we need to make sure we have 3 top class hookers available for the next 12 weeks until we might possibly see him again.
Edited by Wibble, Dec 15 2016, 12:36 PM.
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flanker
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ElmaFudd
Dec 15 2016, 08:41 AM
That is a truely awful video and typical of the BBC these days reporting only one side and pushing an agenda.
:( Not sure what you mean about the BBC.
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big mac returns
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Re a new hooker, its very interesting how Dylan had a kid felt the captaincy wasn't right and then bang we're the same side. He was so crucial to us. Its almost as if he's not really a saints player anymore, that's harsh and I don't think its accurate. It was better when Lancaster was in charge, he's fear of ruffling feathers meant we got a truly world class player dedicated to saints making a huge difference and I got to laugh at tom young's playing for England!

For me hayward is a solid player and has improved alot. But he's a club player and I don't think Clare or Marshall are prem players. Its a tough one but I think we could do with a solid import at hooker, similar to a britz, faingga would have been a good option, but then ultimately wed be carry three first team hookers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38321672
Edited by big mac returns, Dec 15 2016, 02:22 PM.
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happyclapper
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I couldn't disagree more with this.
Dylan is Northampton Saints and it's no coincidence that we've dropped off in the two seasons he's not been captain and that England have improved since he's captained them.

I know he's not played much for us but anyone discussing this needs to do it in the context of his injuries as well, not just looking at his bans. Also, can you blame someone who has had a large set back professionally, and also just had a child to reevaluate and decide they need to take a break.

If Dylan is fit, he plays in my opinion. He is superior in every way to Mikey when it comes to the basics of playing hooker and what he brings as a leader far outweighs what Mikey brings around the park. Mikey is a capable backup. And Clare is a young lad who we know can do a job and will get better. Unless we can get a world class player like Brits, who is happy to rotate when Dylan is around, I'd say we're good in this position. And if we did get such a player, we'd loose Mikey who would surely go to Wuss, Bris, etc to get regular game time.

Basically, no, no, no. We are fine at Hooker.
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ElmaFudd
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flanker
Dec 15 2016, 12:58 PM
ElmaFudd
Dec 15 2016, 08:41 AM
That is a truely awful video and typical of the BBC these days reporting only one side and pushing an agenda.
:( Not sure what you mean about the BBC.
I'll just leave my meaning hanging... very much like that clip does. ^o)
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Wibble
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happyclapper
Dec 15 2016, 02:24 PM
Basically, no, no, no. We are fine at Hooker.
No, We are an injury away from playing.... who exactly? An academy player with no Prem game time?

I love our players but we now know we will most likely not have our first choice hooker for 12+ weeks. Do we expect no injuries in that time?
Haywood and
If we have a great player in the academy who is ready to step up and play in the prem then fine, but i am worried.

As i said, i am not saying we should dump Dylan.. Just that we need to make plans to cover his time away (just like we would if any first XV player was out for 3 months)
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happyclapper
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I just don't think it would work when we have Dylan back unless it's a 30+ retired SH hooker.
Retired from international I mean...
Edited by happyclapper, Dec 16 2016, 01:33 AM.
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Wibble
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We might not have a choice... i need to go look at our academy Hookers...

Then i will have a better idea. I just know you need 3. Injuries happen.
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ElmaFudd
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Rhyse Marshall is the next in line Wibble. Tidy young player. Had a couple of apperances for us if I remember correctly.
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Wibble
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Is he up to premiership standard? Or even close would do me.

Just getting a bit worried, our scrum has not been amazing of late and if Mikey got injured i want to know we wont struggle too much.
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happyclapper
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I seem to recall him being a tidy player.
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big mac returns
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Wibble
Dec 15 2016, 04:53 PM
happyclapper
Dec 15 2016, 02:24 PM
Basically, no, no, no. We are fine at Hooker.
No, We are an injury away from playing.... who exactly? An academy player with no Prem game time?

I love our players but we now know we will most likely not have our first choice hooker for 12+ weeks. Do we expect no injuries in that time?
Haywood and
If we have a great player in the academy who is ready to step up and play in the prem then fine, but i am worried.

As i said, i am not saying we should dump Dylan.. Just that we need to make plans to cover his time away (just like we would if any first XV player was out for 3 months)
i meant get in another player to rotate with dylan whens hes back and hayward when dylans away, i agree dylan is/was northampton saints and should be our first choice but i think seeing as he hasnt been playing we need someone else, for me clare and marshall are a big drop in talent if hayward was to get injured or banned etc. an older player like a brits to add to the squad is what i meant.


someone like a hibbard etc who is virtually retired from international, has some experience, densest expect to start every game etc
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happyclapper
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If you can find him, I'm sure Jim will sign him!!!
Can't argue with that as long as they come knowing the facts...
Is Eddie paving the way for replacing Dylan with this statement?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38389126

I think he could be and am now worried England will lose him as captain.
Edited by happyclapper, Dec 22 2016, 12:15 AM.
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Bedford Saint
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I'm hoping this is Eddie putting a little bit on Dylan to maintain peak fitness and also to appease the faithful. I dont believe Jones has any intention of getting rid of Dylan as he is integral to the success they have had.
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ElmaFudd
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HC I don't think Eddie is looking to drop him as captain. His statement reads a little differently in the Telegraph/Times transcripts of the same interview and would suggest Eddie has said Dylan needs to look at his tackling technique and is a victim of not adapting to the new law amendments. I expect Dylan to be Leading England out come Feb.
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Wibble
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Yes, i found it interesting how different people reported the same news yesterday. From what i saw it looked like Jones was backing his man but being sensible and saying he must learn from it and prove he is still up to speed after the ban.

Its like the reporting of the North review and Team for Leinster... Some people said Saints were innocent, some said No further action and some said Receive no penalty. all technically true but they imply different things.
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happyclapper
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Just finished reading The Times and definitely interesting. I agree he does seem to be saying he will stick by him but... When he says if he's in the match day 23 then he has a chance of being captain, puts some doubt in my mind!!!
Definitely not looking to drop him as captain now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38503190
Edited by happyclapper, Jan 4 2017, 10:12 AM.
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