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George Ford
Topic Started: Dec 21 2016, 12:28 AM (344 Views)
Hood56
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So if the rumours are to be believed Ford is set for Sale. With us and the pussycats also interested.
I can't understand why he would be entertaining the idea of sale. It's clear he wants to continue with England else he would have followed daddy to toulon.
Yet sale are going nowhere anytime soon, they have been fighting for a 6th position for year on years, not ever getting it and not showing signs of improvement. If he's not playing against the best in the champions cup and with a team who are not exactly world beaters. It's going to be increasingly hard to stake a claim for the 10 shirt against farrell who can kick and in the very frustratingly one of the best European sides currently.

Then there's the matter of us, a side who is and has been clueless in attack for some time now. A side that is going to do one thing, make Ford look a bit rubbish.

If he is to leave Bath which in my opinion is a terrible decision considering the players he has around in in the backs and are still a very good side. The only place he can go is the tigers and they're not exactly world beaters at the moment.

If I was a betting man I have a feeling he is going to be a Saint next season. If JJ does indeed accept the munster offer and with myler getting on a bit and honestly has never set our back line alight. We need a player who can and I have a nasty feeling Jim will try to bring him in. Just hope he also signs a 12 who can kick or 'arry gets his kicking boots on next season.
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ElmaFudd
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Sale have a bit of cash to throw about plus isn't his brother there?

Tbh I never expected or wanted Ford to come to us. Great player on his day but too flakey.
Edited by ElmaFudd, Dec 21 2016, 10:11 AM.
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flanker
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The Saints have a reputation of ruining fly halves unfortunately which might put him off? How much play time has JJ actually had?
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Wibble
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Its a tough one with JJ, he has had a couple of injuries that have caused issues. We usually give quite a bit of time to other 10s, they just never provide the same stability that Myler does. We do need someone though but i think Ford is a bit of a Risk, that said... If Harry is fit his kicking is plenty good enough to have him take on the kicking from 12 as Farrell does for England. If Saints could play like England i would not complain so i am not against at this point.
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Bedford Saint
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If we are not signing players of Ford's calibre and the likes of Sale are, we are going even further backwards. Why wouldnt we want to sign him and build our attack play around him. Good enough for England, must be good enough for us.
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happyclapper
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I really don't understand what all the fuss about Ford is. I know Eddie loves him so I will bow to his vastly superior judgement but I just don't see it. Goes missing in big games, can't kick under pressure and I am convinced he is only good for England due to Farrell. Makes me wonder what a Hodgson 10, Wilko 12 would have been like back in the day...

For me, no. But if he comes, it shows massive intent by the club (signing the England 10) and I would get behind him 100%.
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chesty
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We are that good we can ignore Ford never read such claptrap, he beat us on his own earlier in the season,but perhaps we already accept that's easy.He would be a great signing for us a statement of intent
if hanahan goes we have nothing else but a player who can kick.
As for having ago at Sale if we brought through as many kids as them, I would be well pleased, they haven't had the resourses to keep them but a look at some of the youngsters who have left would give you a better team than we have at present.
Half of wasps.
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happyclapper
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It's not claptrap Chesty, it's called someone else's opinion. And I am almost certain he did not beat us on his own. He had a fine game that day, yes, but that does not cancel out all the games he's gone missing in.

There is no confirmation JJ is going anywhere but if he does, I expect us to recruit a replacement and if that happens to be Ford, then, as I said, I'll get behind him 100%. And I think you'll find I already stated signing the current England 10 would show massive intent.

Not sure anyone was having a go at Sale either.
And certainly think our academy is much better than theirs and I'd be intrigued as to who all these players are that have gone to Wasps.
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ElmaFudd
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Agree HC he may have contributed to a narrow bath win this season but his poor kicking under pressure cost bath the 2nd tier euro cup against us and also a couple of other matches against us. Overrated imo.
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chesty
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happy that's my opinion and elma just doesn't like ford.
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big mac returns
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I dont want Ford, hes simply not good!


If we sign him i feel that would be a panic buy based on the situation
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Wibble
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The guy has some skill, he can get a back line moving very well but he can be got at.... But he might get better with age. His kicking is not great but if you have a kicking 12 its fine.

Still, Not a perfect solution
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happyclapper
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You are more than entitled to your opinion chesty, that's why we have good friendly debate on this forum!

Still waiting for confirmation of this awesome Sale academy and all the players now at Wasps... ;) ;) :P ;)
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big mac returns
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just for clarity, George Ford's brother is not at Sale, hes playing incredibly well for yorkshire. and from what i can see the only sale academy products at wasps are taylor and gaskell, gaskell is nothing special but taylor is a very good prospect.
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happyclapper
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Thanks Mac, I kind of knew that! I.e. I had a look at Wasps website and couldn't see anyone confirmed as Sharks academy other than Gaskell. Taylor had a year at Macclesfield before his first senior season at Sale, but this may have been a loan move to get experience.

Either way, there is not this mass of ex Sharks academy at Wasps.
And I've never really heard wonderful things about their academy anyway. I'm sure it's fine but definitely not as great as Chesty would let us believe and certainly does not produce better players than ours.
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Wibble
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The most productive Academies seemed to have been Irish and Newcastle over the past 10 yeas.. Almost every club has raised their young prospects.
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big mac returns
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leeds also have a very good academy, we have been beneficiaries of that.

I do agree that not many players have migrated from the sale to wasps but i do disagree slightly about the strength of their academy. from my view point they have a very very good academy that brings through some very good players, they have a very good crop of youngsters at the moment, and they do give these players game time, whether they are from theirs of poached like odogwu they do give them an opportunity.. they run a very small squad as well. I'm a fan of the way they go about things and what they are trying to achieve.
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happyclapper
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Including poaching players from RL?

It was more the criticism of our academy. I think we do very well from ours. We may be guilty of not giving them game time but it's certainly producing. And we're in a much more competitive area for RU than Sale. They get the monopoly of RU players basically above Birmingham and below Newcastle so lots to choose from. Some will got to Leeds and they also to a good job I agree.
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Wibble
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You tend to find that many of the less well off clubs develop their youngsters very well, probably due to lack of options. Unfortunately they struggle to keep these players as they are cash poor. Unlike in football you dont have transfer fees so the clubs developing these players loose out. Perhaps a rule needs to be put in place so that in the first 3 years a club has to invest 10% of a players wages back into whatever academy developed them. Even if thats in Tonga/Samoa/Ireland or Leeds.

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chesty
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Without thinking Gaskel,Taylor,Miller,and Cipriani don't think it was a point about accadamies just players perhaps I exadurated, they rescued Cipriani, where are our products who are playing regularly.We seem to talk about the youngsters a lot but under twenty one is a youth to me.
Anyway beginning to like this websight I love discussion even if I don't agree with my own points,get people talking.
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Wibble
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There are very few Sports questions with Right or Wrong Answers. I also think that if we all agreed then there would be no point in having a conversation.

I swing back and forward on the idea of signing Ford.I have seen how bad he can be when he falls appart but i have seen the good work he has done with England. He cant be that bad if he's keeping Farrell at 12, then again they both work so well together that it would be crazy to change either of them.

I think that with Harry at 12 we have the option to play the type of 10 we have lusted after at Saints for years. Myler has had to do everything himself for too long but with a kicking 12 who is also a play maker it gives our 10 the chance to do more. Thats a good thing IMO.

Keep on posting Chesty.... Glad to have you on board.

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big mac returns
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chesty
Dec 23 2016, 12:59 PM
Without thinking Gaskel,Taylor,Miller,and Cipriani don't think it was a point about accadamies just players perhaps I exadurated, they rescued Cipriani, where are our products who are playing regularly.We seem to talk about the youngsters a lot but under twenty one is a youth to me.
Anyway beginning to like this websight I love discussion even if I don't agree with my own points,get people talking.
id say our products that are playing regularly cant be more obvious then 200 games for waller.

hayward, lawes, gunna claim Harrison, mallinder, elliot, all cemented first team players.

Smyler was an academy player despite pinching him from salford. also Hartley was really our product despite a few claims to worcester.


we've produced a fair few players and pinched young players along the way to, the core team that won us the league were mainly players that did most of their development at the gardens.
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chesty
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Mac I like you dispute some of the players you've claimed some local club lads there but not argueing that's why we are top of the league,if only for supporters.
Any way I would love Ford but need a top class centre and fullback as well.
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big mac returns
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for me i think we need a strong competitor for foden no doubt. but id rather a world class 9 and second row then a new centre, would like to see mallinder and hutch develop there. if we were to sign ford it would mean mallinder would have to step up as our first choice kicker, myler would move into the hodgson role. for me that would severely reduce the ability of our kicker and cost us games.
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Bedford Saint
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If Ford can get the backline going and we score 3/4 tries, then we are not so reliant on a kicker. Ford works with Jonny Wilkinson whilst in the England camp, surely we can afford for Wilko to drive up to Northampton for an hour or two each week. A certain Mr Grayson is on our doorstep if not.

A world class 9 is a must, I hoped Groom would be the answer, he's done ok, but never going to set the world alight.

We seem to have about 25 props, i'd like quality not quantity and see some world class operators added.

Big fan of Alex Waller, the lad must be the most overworked prop in world rugby, I'm knackered just watching him.
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happyclapper
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Chesty - yes always love good debate, I find this site so much better than the old offy and COYS.com.
Re Cips, he was a product of Wasps academy. Miller was div 2 for Tynedale before he went into Falcons academy.

Back to Ford, if we want to win trophies we need a reliable kicker in the starting 15, this is not Ford and I am not convinced on Harry as a 80% kicker yet. He may well become that but he's not at the moment. In the big games, the tight games, it does not matter how creative you are, the games will come down to kicks. Both teams will score tries, and the game will be tight. Very few semis and finals are won by big margins. Ford is not that man.

Re Ford and England, he knows he has Farrell there to bale him out. Personally I would play Farrell at 10 and then pick a proper 12. Whether that is a ball playing 12 (Slade) or a running 12 (T'eo) is up to Eddie to decide how he wants the team to play. My opinion is he wants to play a ball playing 12 and he's waiting for Slade to hit form again and then he'll jettison the flakey Ford to the bench.

Caveat - if we sign Ford, I will be over the moon and please disregard everything I've said!!!!
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