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Saints Vs Bristol Rugby - Saturday 7 Jan - 15:00 - Franklin's Gardens
Topic Started: Jan 3 2017, 12:29 PM (1,244 Views)
Wibble
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Well, we needed to win the matches against Sale Glos and Bristol to get ourselves back in the driving seat (and perhaps save our Season and Jims Job) ans so far we have achieved the "tougher" two of them. Thats pretty good going so far and Saints now sit 6th in the League Still some distance off top 4 but with at least a chance of making it.

So, To Bristol. We all thought this would be a banker but recent results have shown that Bristol are showing some form and are by no means a guaranteed win. That said we cant take any match for granted and we have a habit of loosing to relegation teams recently that has been half our problem. So we need to look at the team and pick a game plan to take them on. I cant honestly say i know much about Bristol, how they play or what their strengths/weaknesses are so i cant make any educated decisions but i can say that the team we have been playing recently is finally starting to look like a unit and are actually scoring trys. As such we should stick with it and only make changes where we have to.

The only change i would like to see is Estelles for Ken Pisi. Estelles was IMO unfairly dropped for George North (who has not exactly been on form this year) and deserves another go. Ken on the other hand struggles in the cold wet conditions and was a bit off last week and its fair to say we could do with a little extra zip on the wing. Other than that, we have to keep the Louis/Groom/Myler/JJ Axis together if we can. It seems to give us some good momentum and varies the point of attack enough to make us harder to deal with.

If there Scrum is strong i would consider Api in the second row to add a bit of meat but otherwise everyone has been doing quite well.

I have a good feeling about this, i hope things are on the turn and i would like to hope that if not a 5 point win (big ask) we can at least look strong and win all facets of the game. A good performance and a win are enough at this point of our turnaround.

I will be there i hope and its nice to have a match at rugby o'clock too :-)

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happyclapper
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We're at home, the weather is predicted to be dry.
Bristol are bottom.
Despite current form we should expect a win.
With current form that may be all but I would hope for a BP.
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flanker
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Could be a good game. Bristol are on a run of form. Varndell is very quick and finishing well. Very good Kiwi at full back. Be a real test for Saints whether we have turned the corner or slip back with inconsistent performances.

Yes ('Don') Estelles should start. I know they've put in huge effort and been loyal to the club but I wouldn't be sorry if we replaced Burrell and both Pisis at the end of this season. They're not good and consistent enough for Premiership standards in my opinion. Poor coaching no doubt has something to do with it but not the complete story.
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happyclapper
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Very interesting article about Saints in Sunday Times last weekend by Stephen Jones. I normally find his stuff hit and miss but this was definitely hit. I'll link to it in another thread but he said Luther had the world at his feat and then the Burgess affair has ruined him as a player and he still hasn't recovered.

"England have done Saints no favours. I described the selection of Sam Burgess, the ill-fated convert, over Saints’ Luther Burrell for the 2015 World Cup as the worst in the history of English rugby — subsequent events proved that it was even worse than that.

The mid-career Burrell was a diamond, a player with skill and power but also delightful hands. Yet he is a confidence player, he needs to be understood. By the time he had been messed around to kingdom come by England, dropped crazily for Burgess when his dreams were on the verge of fulfilment, it was a wonder he felt able to appear in public, let alone show his best form on the rugby field.

Burrell is still the kind of player around which you can build a team. If Mallinder can complete Burrell’s revival then the prospects look different. "

So I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to discard Luther just yet.

Varndell should be nullified by our better wingers.
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big mac returns
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the pisi's for me are very good players and very consistent in defence at the very least. we look a lot more solid with George at 13.

for me ken is a very solid winger who is capably of breaking the line from nothing, i feel generally our wingers dont look world beater cause of the way we play. not sure based on the back of a couple of games Estelles should be up the pecking order.
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happyclapper
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I concur Mac.
Once our backline is playing well again we can judge who is in form and who needs to go.
Until then, even Luther on his current for deserves a stay of execution. None of them is playing well and it's a coaching issue.
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ElmaFudd
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I agree regarding the Pisi's particularly Ken. Yes he had a poor game at Gloucester and he does drop the ball a bit. But at the moment he is by far and away our best broken play player and as with North he suffers from how we use wingers however he does look for work more than George does. Start him against Bristol and bring Estelles on for 20-30 mins he still needs time to fit in imo.
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chesty
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Elma estelles needs to fit in ,like it,only been here all season perhaps another couple of years.This is what people keep saying we need to try them out.
Ken pisi seems a nice fellow doesn't win matches, not fast enough, drops balls, for me has never been good enough.
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happyclapper
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I think that's the point Chesty, most people on here seem to think KP is good enough and is playing well at the moment. And certainly the issues we're seeing are not the wingers fault. If Estelles is playing well in training, I fully expect Jim to give him a go. If not, he'll stick with what he knows is good. It's nice to have Estelles on the bench and if he comes on and does well, I'd expect him to start the next game.
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chesty
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Happy last game he played he looked good what happened
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happyclapper
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I assume, as it's hard to tell, you mean he played well, but then what happened? As he got dropped?
I'd argue he did nothing to merit selection over KP who has played well / looked good for several seasons now. And as it was a game in which KP was rested, then Estelles will have to wait his turn or really show promise in training.
And I should have clarified, by well, I mean shows real pace, scores a try from nothing, or something similar. Just coming on and doing his job or looking good, is not going to get him in above an established player. Unless he's been really going well in Wandies or training.
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ElmaFudd
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I hear what you're saying Chesty but as HC says he's really not done anything that makes me want to start him over KP or for that matter Collins or Elliott. I've watched him, (Estelles) in the Wandies several times and he is steadily looking better and better but on the wing if I were to choose between him or Packman based on their wandies performances as a 1st team starter it would be Packman.

Don't get me wrong, I thought he had a good game vs Sale he does look like he could be a yard quicker than KP and if he gets a few more bench starts and earns his spurs why not start him, I just think he needs a couple more solid performances from the bench first.
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Ossie Reborn
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On the subject of Snr Estelles, his playing position pre Saints signing has been predominantly as a centre. Maybe we should see him there before labelling him as just a winger.
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happyclapper
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I thought he was a 7s specialist?
Therefore 13, 11/14 or 15 maybe?
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ElmaFudd
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Good point Ossie in fact he's had a couple of starts for wandies at centre.

HC I must admit one criticism of his match vs Sale was that he tendered to come back inside a defender rather than trust his pace to go round him. Something Ken used to do when he first started playing maybe this is because he is 7s player as was Ken before he joined us.
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big mac returns
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Tbf backing your pace is all well and good but sales wingers were no slouches, with his sevens background you'd imagine he'd have decent footwork but also he'd be used to seeing far larger gaps
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ElmaFudd
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I agree Mac but their were a couple of occasions I felt he could have gone round his man. In 7s I guess you look to do this less as it so easy to be isolated.
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happyclapper
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And the gaps back inside are much bigger so an easier route to the try line, especially if you've wrong footed the one man in front of you. Whereas in XVs, you step inside and invariably there is a cover tackler...

It will take time to coach out of him but it will come.
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big mac returns
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NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY BRISTOL
Aviva Premiership Round 13
Franklin’s Gardens
Saturday, January 7th, 2017
Kick off 3:00pm
15 Ben Foden
14 Jamie Elliott
13 Luther Burrell
12 JJ Hanrahan
11 George North
10 Stephen Myler
9 Nic Groom
1 Alex Waller
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Kieran Brookes
4 Courtney Lawes
5 Christian Day
6 Tom Wood (capt)
7 Teimana Harrison
8 Louis Picamoles

16 Charlie Clare
17 Ethan Waller
18 Paul Hill
19 James Craig
20 Jamie Gibson
21 Lee Dickson
22 Harry Mallinder
23 Juan Pablo Estelles
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ElmaFudd
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Yep happy with that. Play as we can and we should get a result. Bris have a bag pack so we need to move them around and tire them out.
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Wibble
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Looks good. Looking at the forwards + Bench we might be targeting the lineout. Its nice to see some of those combinations not getting disrupted by injury for a change. Is it any coincidence that being able to put out the same 9/10/12/13 for a few weeks has seen us steady the ship?

Lets hope for a solid win. I hope for a BP win but will take looking comfortable atm.

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happyclapper
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Yep looks good.
Would like the BP but agree with Wibble, just a comfortable win would do.
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flanker
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I'd start Malinder over Burrell.
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ElmaFudd
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Harry covers more options than Burrell, except for flanker of course 😁. If you have the two in the team starting Burrell is probably the right option. Of course the real question is should Burrell be in the 23?
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happyclapper
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Mallinder is not a 13.
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danjsaints
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As far as I know this match is not on TV unless anyone can set me straight?
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ElmaFudd
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No you're right Dan it's not televised.
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flanker
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happyclapper
Jan 6 2017, 11:27 PM
Mallinder is not a 13.
Ok. Why not?
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popsandpa
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On Radio Northampton - sounded better, more passion, team work, will to win, players working for each other? looking forward to your thoughts!
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ElmaFudd
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Was a cracking match overall two of the Bristols trys weren't but it kept it entertaining. Lets hope the momentum picks up oh and that Tigs get a pasting.
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