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It's a Lions year; Hartley seeing red may mean he never wears it
Topic Started: Jan 6 2017, 11:37 AM (417 Views)
big mac returns
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I just thought as its a Lion's year it might be worth a thread regarding who people thing should make the test 15 and squad, if there will be a bolters and if any saints are in the reckoning. be interesting to see what people think now and then after the six nations.

dream teams are always fun/

Front row:

I imagine on such a long tour they will take at least 6 props. so virtually thats the irish, English and welsh front rows. maybe nel at a push.

Vunipola magrath jenkins (outside options marler or hearly)

furlong lee cheat

Hartley Best George (could go with ford or owens, but dont think either are as good)

Second row:

interesting selection as i think there alot of good players here, I personally would play itoje at 6 and then have a henderson lawes combo. Alan wyn Jones will go as will toner id imagine. then I think id take both the Grays. so six players with itoje a cover. very tough call. no idea who he'd start, i pretty certain it wont be my line up. awj and itoje probably. Kruis will be mentioned but not for me.

6:

like is said id have itoje start there.

other options maybe lydiate, robshaw, stander, obrien. dare i say woody. I think id take lydiate and stander with obrien covering 7

7: Warburton is the best player in this role for me, Im a big fan of o'mahony, i think hes a utter animal at the breakdown. and personally i dont thin other then maybe our very own clark there is another international standard 7 our there. wood is 6. so id have those two with obrien covering whole back row.

8: Vunipola falatau heaslip. do you take three? or do u take two and have obrien covering is the question?

9: Webb and Murray are the standouts, big fan of webb. I think id also take laidlaw, gives a kicking option to the midweek team and there has to be some scots

10: Farrell starts at 10 for me, i know a alot will say him at 12 but for me hes best 10 on the planet at the mo. Sexton if fit as other option, otherwise Bigger, on the last tour he had Hogg as a potential back up and he did play v the counties side, however this is a much longer tour, so maybe three in each position is required. its a very hard call, dont want to end up like woodwards tour where virtually every man was selected. but u need the manage the game time of players, account for injuries but also give them enough time to click, hard nut to crack. could cips be an outside choice?

11/14 North Zebo to start. then a tough one. watson is x factor so id take him, I'm a fan of Nowell, other then that there are no good wingers in the northern hemisphere. Mike Brown could do a job in the wing as could halfpenny, but with farrell at 10 halfpenny is not needed.

12/13. Centres is all about balance and getting what u need on the pitch. I'd say based on form it would be henshaw and JJ, however that is two strike runners with a 10 that whilst is very impressive as a running 10 isnt top draw like a cip or sexton, assuming farrell is at 10 and not sexton, therefore do you need a distributor in there, maybe a Davies. however if sexton is at 10 with farrell at 12 youd imagine that the jj partnership with farrell would be likely. my issue is however, based on the opposition, and based on the likelihood that the game plan will be "gatland ball" (which i think it should be as against the all blacks with very little time together as a squad its the most efficient and effective game plan) is a combination from farrell, jj, heaslip, davies carrying enough bulk? for me there is an argument that roberts and teo are the best options. I think Teo could be the bolter. however a team with the likes of itoje vunipola x2 henderson hartley lawes north isnt lacking ball carriers.

15: Stuart Hogg is the best in the northern hemisphere in my view, Kearney as cover but mike brown could potentially take that id take one of those two. and definitely halfpenny as another option.


If i had to pick now

Vunipola Hartley furlong lawes henderson itoje warburton vunipola webb farrell north henshaw JJ zebo hogg

my issue is i could debate against each one of those selections.
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Bedford Saint
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Hogg is the only Scot going on the Lions tour unless they have paid for their own flights and match tickets, the rest are simply not good enough.

Not sure on current form I'd pick North, way to inconsistent and doesnt produce enough. Was poor for Wales in the autumn, so its not just his Saints form.

Love to see Dylan go as Captain, just needs to stay on the field for the rest of the season.
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Wibble
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One thing is for sure, there will be more Welsh players than deserve to be there. If you want to win down under then i would take a core from England and Ireland with a couple of the Welsh (North, Warburton possibly Roberts) And a Scotsman.

That could all change after the 6Nations as the strength of the home nations ebbs and flows so often its hard to keep track, but based on the past year England are in amazing form and Ireland seem to have rebounded after the loss of so many of their best in the previous few years.

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happyclapper
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Can't believe you didn't mention Ben Youngs who has been outstanding under Eddie Jones. With Farrell, Sexton and Halfpenny all more or less guaranteed on the plane, there is no need for Laidlaw to go who is average other than his kicking.
Johnny Gray is definitely on the plane and in for a starting place (on current form).

Given the quality in 2nd row and back row, I think he'll play players in the their natural positions, so Itoje in the second row. I wouldn't be surprised if Itoje is on the bench as cover for both and AWJ and Gray start.
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big mac returns
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happyclapper
Jan 6 2017, 03:29 PM
Can't believe you didn't mention Ben Youngs who has been outstanding under Eddie Jones. With Farrell, Sexton and Halfpenny all more or less guaranteed on the plane, there is no need for Laidlaw to go who is average other than his kicking.
Johnny Gray is definitely on the plane and in for a starting place (on current form).

Given the quality in 2nd row and back row, I think he'll play players in the their natural positions, so Itoje in the second row. I wouldn't be surprised if Itoje is on the bench as cover for both and AWJ and Gray start.
for me youngs is no where near as good as webb or murray, so would you take youngs simply to be there for the midweek team bench? and tbh its not certain that gatland doesnt go sexton farrell and halfpenny all in the test side thus leaving no kicker for the midweek side. not only that but i think laidlaw is strong character and leader more so then youngs plus its important that there are scots on the tour, the grays, laidlaw and hogg are really only options. especially as maitlands a kiwi and nel is a saffer

also with my side saints have two in the squad with leicester just the one with cheat, 2-1 saints :D

J Gray has been incredible this season, i think there is a great girth of talent there and tbh i think itoje is a better 6 then lydiate anyway and im not sure itoje is the best lineout forward just yet so with the depth as it is id have him as third out man. AWJ and toner is something id be surprised with tbh, I just think lawes is getting back to his best, and henderson is a quality ball carrier.
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happyclapper
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Can't really argue with any of your points, other than I disagree. But that's opinion.
I can't see H'penny in the team with Hogg there and Farrell slotting the points.
I'd go AWJ and J Gray with Itoje on the bench.

I'd go with Laidlaw for mid-week team, you have a point there re leadership.
Maitland has to go on current form. And if you rule him out on residency we lose loads more.

Re bolter, I wouldn't be surprised to see on of Sale's new wingers on the plane if they hit form.
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big mac returns
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Maitland went on the last tour and im fairly sure there have been others like him before. did riki flutey?

as would solomona seeing as hes somoan. would be very soon but thats what robinson did.
happyclapper
Jan 6 2017, 04:31 PM
Can't really argue with any of your points, other than I disagree. But that's opinion.
I can't see H'penny in the team with Hogg there and Farrell slotting the points.
I'd go AWJ and J Gray with Itoje on the bench.

I'd go with Laidlaw for mid-week team, you have a point there re leadership.
Maitland has to go on current form. And if you rule him out on residency we lose loads more.

Re bolter, I wouldn't be surprised to see on of Sale's new wingers on the plane if they hit form.
yeah definitely opinion coming in here thats what is interesting, like is said i definitely dont think gatland will go with itoje at 6. with jonny gray he is smashing the stats the amount of tackles he makes is unreal. but then i watch him and i just dont thing hes better then lawes or henderson for that matter. would love to see J gray at saints though issue is i think him an lawes are similar players. we need a bulky second row, Ball for wales would have been excellent. Ball could be a bolter aswell. if there is an injury to a couple
Edited by big mac returns, Jan 6 2017, 05:09 PM.
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happyclapper
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I think whatever team he picks it will be warrenball all the way and the problem is warrenball is still 0 wins against SH teams so can't see The Lions getting any wins either! They need to try and play something better than that. It's one thing bullying the Aussies, it's completely different thing bullying the ABs.

If Geech can get them playing good rugby on all the tours he was involved in, then it can be done.
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big mac returns
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It worked v the Aussies and they aren't a bad team

Geech was still during amateur and early pro mainly, a different time, then he lost in 09.

Nothing wrong with making the pitch wide and then crashing up the gaps
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happyclapper
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We bullied the Aussies, can't see us doing that against the ABs.
I just think we need more to the game.
But we shall see...
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if he does stick to warrenball then I see a series whitewash on the cards.
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happyclapper
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I concur Elms
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big mac returns
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All Blacks veteran Dan Carter has had his say on who he would choose to put in the number 10 shirt for their tour later this year. He has come out to say that he would choose the 25 year old Saracens man Owen Farrell to go to New Zealand with the Lions, which is something Farrell will be happy to hear.

Carter has been quoted by the New Zealand Herald saying that; “Owen Farrell’s been in fantastic form for a year or two and he would be my pick at fly-half,” said Carter. “He’s worked out a good partnership with George Ford for England.

Farrell who has only previously played one game for the Lions has showed his worth with quality performances for both club and country, which would make him a likely candidate for the squad. Sexton and Ford will be just as up for the position and with Ford being one of England’s biggest growing talents, there is a good possibility that you could see George in the 10 shirt and Farrell moved to 12.

Although, it is still all to play for in terms of winning positions and it will be interesting to see who Gatland will choose. If one thing is for sure, he is definitely not lacking in options.


carter's opinion on the 10
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danjsaints
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big mac returns
Jan 13 2017, 11:19 AM
All Blacks veteran Dan Carter has had his say on who he would choose to put in the number 10 shirt for their tour later this year. He has come out to say that he would choose the 25 year old Saracens man Owen Farrell to go to New Zealand with the Lions, which is something Farrell will be happy to hear.

Carter has been quoted by the New Zealand Herald saying that; “Owen Farrell’s been in fantastic form for a year or two and he would be my pick at fly-half,” said Carter. “He’s worked out a good partnership with George Ford for England.

Farrell who has only previously played one game for the Lions has showed his worth with quality performances for both club and country, which would make him a likely candidate for the squad. Sexton and Ford will be just as up for the position and with Ford being one of England’s biggest growing talents, there is a good possibility that you could see George in the 10 shirt and Farrell moved to 12.

Although, it is still all to play for in terms of winning positions and it will be interesting to see who Gatland will choose. If one thing is for sure, he is definitely not lacking in options.


carter's opinion on the 10
Pfft. What does he know?...
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happyclapper
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I vote for piffle as well!!!
(but it would be my choice if Sexton is not on form)
Interesting stuff in here from Jim Telfer about The Lions:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38777496

Also, I quite like his team. Full of "winners" but maybe a bit defensive?
Edited by happyclapper, Jan 31 2017, 12:33 AM.
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big mac returns
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Interesting read, think he voted for independence???? Few chips on those shoulders

Interesting side as well. I just remember seeing the speech he gave for the lions on one of the dvds, lions legend!
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happyclapper
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Def Lions legend, and def has a huge chip on his shoulder.
Whenever I've been to HQ the feeling is normally one of expectation coupled with fear, I've never thought it an arrogant place.

For me his back row and choice of kicking 12 highlights a very defensive approach.
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danjsaints
Jan 13 2017, 11:21 AM
big mac returns
Jan 13 2017, 11:19 AM
All Blacks veteran Dan Carter has had his say on who he would choose to put in the number 10 shirt for their tour later this year. He has come out to say that he would choose the 25 year old Saracens man Owen Farrell to go to New Zealand with the Lions, which is something Farrell will be happy to hear.

Carter has been quoted by the New Zealand Herald saying that; “Owen Farrell’s been in fantastic form for a year or two and he would be my pick at fly-half,” said Carter. “He’s worked out a good partnership with George Ford for England.

Farrell who has only previously played one game for the Lions has showed his worth with quality performances for both club and country, which would make him a likely candidate for the squad. Sexton and Ford will be just as up for the position and with Ford being one of England’s biggest growing talents, there is a good possibility that you could see George in the 10 shirt and Farrell moved to 12.

Although, it is still all to play for in terms of winning positions and it will be interesting to see who Gatland will choose. If one thing is for sure, he is definitely not lacking in options.


carter's opinion on the 10
Pfft. What does he know?...
Exactly. Can he kick?
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big mac returns
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happyclapper
Jan 31 2017, 10:30 AM
Def Lions legend, and def has a huge chip on his shoulder.
Whenever I've been to HQ the feeling is normally one of expectation coupled with fear, I've never thought it an arrogant place.

For me his back row and choice of kicking 12 highlights a very defensive approach.
some big ball carriers in his back row, important to get over the game line v the kiwis.

Farrell is probably the best 12 in the home nations if u want a second ball player/kicker. he also has to be in the side to kick. so if you want sexton at ten i suppose he has to play at 12.

personally id pin the mast to farrell at 10, they go with henshaw and either teo/davies/jj/roberts in the centres
happyclapper
Jan 31 2017, 10:30 AM
Def Lions legend, and def has a huge chip on his shoulder.<br />Whenever I've been to HQ the feeling is normally one of expectation coupled with fear, I've never thought it an arrogant place.<br /><br />For me his back row and choice of kicking 12 highlights a very defensive approach.
some big ball carriers in his back row, important to get over the game line v the kiwis.

Farrell is probably the best 12 in the home nations if u want a second ball player/kicker. he also has to be in the side to kick. so if you want sexton at ten i suppose he has to play at 12.

personally id pin the mast to farrell at 10, they go with henshaw and either teo/davies/jj/roberts in the centres
Edited by big mac returns, Jan 31 2017, 02:11 PM.
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happyclapper
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I'd nail my mast to Farrell as well at 10.
If you want ball carriers in the back row, where is Billy?
Faletau is definitely a defensive pick...
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big mac returns
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toby is definitely a destructive runner as well, but i'd definitely go with billy, hes gone to a new level since jones has come in.
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