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Squad discussion
Topic Started: Jan 10 2017, 12:46 PM (207 Views)
happyclapper
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George is 30, I wouldn't write him off just yet. Especially once we start playing well again (I am optimistic).
But, yes, I think 13 would be a good spend if we were to spend. That and 15 I think. Fodes is 31 now.
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big mac returns
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for me i think hutchinson is the answer at 13 if given time, let him be Pisi's understudy and i think we'll end up with a top player.

15 definitely for me, unless we are going to give collins time there, then we need someone to come in and compete with ben. i'd let wilson and ace go they are just not up to it as first teamers, not pushing ben at all plus constant injuries. I mean the squad is full of filler and not enough players pushing to really start. likes of estelles ( i know hes flavour of the month but i just dont see it solid player no doubt but hardly comparably to top wingers in the division), tuavake, wilson, ace none would get into other top teams sides, dont get into ours, they are just not needed in the squad.

however 9 is the biggest hole for me. a player can do a job on the wing no issue, as long as they are solid, however nine is fundamental.
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happyclapper
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I don't know enough about Hutch to say if he is a 12 or 13 or a genuine all-rounder in the centres.
Don't forget we have Stephenson as well who was looking very good until his injury.

I never saw Wilson as the messiah as some did, but I do think he is a solid squad player and his versatility means he's a great bench option. I'd keep him.
Ace probably has until his contract is up to prove his worth. Otherwise, he's no more than a slightly bigger, faster, but less skillful and versatile Wilson.

Depending on how Groom progresses, you may be right in that we need a world class 9.
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ElmaFudd
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Is Stephenson a 13?
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Wibble
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I had forgot about Stephenson (sorry) We have so many players that keep getting injured or just not picked... I think i agree in principle that we have too much quantity and not enough quality. I dont mind being 4 deep in a backs position if a couple of them are academy lads, but having players who are half decent but not either young enough to develop or different enough to be game changing off the bench.

I like Wilson, everyone knows it but i have always said he is not our best player in any position, but at times he was our second best in 3-4 positions so is an excellent bench player.

We seem to have a lot of players in the Good bracket, Like George Pisi, Ace, Wilson, kessel.... they are good players and wont let you down but are they going to get any better and more importantly, can you get anyone better for the same money? Now i am sure we would all love top class internationals in every position but we cant afford it. They cost about £500k a year and we have to put out a full team plus bench. But you need some of them. Ours are IMO Dylan, Lawes, Wood, Picamoles and North. We could probably do with another star player in the backs at either 13 or 15.

We are likely to see a few changes at the end of the season and a few of our past heros move on as they will probably still expect to get payed the same rate as when they were playing international matches and winning cups. These things always go in cycles and for me it will be a sad day when Jims boys all start to move on, but i will thank them for the great effort they have given to the club and the enjoyment i have had watching them and then i will look forward to the next 10 years seeing players like Collins, Mallinder Waller and Haywood take us on to new heights.

In a rambling mood today :-) sorry folks.
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big mac returns
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Kessell will never let you down.................try looking at falcons game at home.

I wouldnt have G Pisi in that same category, for me hes a first team player.

for me the only position that wilson is our second best player in is full back. and for me hes not good enough to be that. we need better.

for me we should run a much smaller squad, two players per every position then use the academy to cover if we get significant injuries. however where players are going to get called up or they are specialist (i.e front row) we should have more depth. for me our squad should be no more then 38, something like:

Waller Waller Maafu
Hartley Hayward Clare
Brookes Hill Denman
Lawes Day Paterson Api Ribbens
Wood Gibson
Clark Ludlem
Picamoules Harrison (need another to replace dickinson)
Dickson Groom (need another Kessell is no good)
Smyler JJ Olver
Mallinder stephenson
Hutch Pisi
North Pisi Elliot Collins Packman
Foden (Need another)

so with that in mind the like of the following can leave,

Luther, craig dickinson, estelles, kessell, nutley, tuitavake, wilson, Ace

that'd leaves us with enough to go out and get three players. however i doubt if any will leave.


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happyclapper
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I agree with you on Kessel, Wilson and Pisi.
But think your squad is light in two ways, 1) way too much inexperience and 2) not enough players.
If two centres get injured we're screwed.
I'd keep Luther. Please remember two years ago he was playing for England.
I'd also keep Estelles, he's only just made the switch from 7s and needs time to bed in.
Tuitavake we haven't seen yet.
I think Craig, Sam and Nutters have probably had their chance and need to move to get 1st team rugby.
I think Wilson should stay and Ace see out his contract.
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big mac returns
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re centres,

If we lost two, we would still have two, plus we have elliot north and JJ who can cover.

for me Luther was ok when we won the league but still not that good, and how he ever got in the england side is an enigma. and regardless of that for the last year and a half he has been abysmal.

I personally do not see estelles becoming anything more then solid. where as i see collins and packman becoming alot better.

in terms of lack of experiance and number of players. players dont get experience without playing and a majority of the players ive said could leave we havent needed this year. or we have or ive suggested we need a new player who would play in their place. in some cases two covered by one new.


Luther replaced by hutch and stephenson coming back
craig has been replaced by ribbins and api
dickinson and nutley ive said we need another backrower to replace. this is least important change
Kessell, we need a new nine
estelles tuitavake wilson ace, replaced by backing collins packman and a new 15.
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chesty
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Think the named squad lacks experience and skill,slow in the backs. Haven't seen much of packman,but I used to like Collins until I realised he was getting older but no better.Stephson is injury prone, but if the right people are bought in its as good as it gets.
Need good full back and fly half.Get rid of deadwood and the injury prone.
If he hasn't used them when we were terrible what are they doing at the club.
Unless we have a new broom with differert ideas.
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Wibble
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I sometimes feel that clubs spend money just to reach the cap, as if not spending to the cap is a huge crime.

Obviously i want to get maximum effect out of the cap but if you cant get the guy you want i dont think its wise to just get anyone for the sake of spending the cash.

Jim seems to take a punt on a couple of players every season. Then again, sometimes they turn out to be absolute stars. If only his hit rate was a bit better :-)
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Bedford Saint
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If we genuinely believe Collins, Packman, Ludlam etc are going to be part of the next generation, lets dual code sign them with a championship club for the rest of the season - the only way to get experience is to play competitive rugby. The A League is not going to deliver that in my opinion.

I agree with a smaller squad, quality not quantity is the key, I also believe if you lose all your specialist players ie: hookers/scrum halves you can sign medical replacements.
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big mac returns
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some of the players have been on duel code, estelles was scoring trys in the champ weeks before he played for us.

however championship rugby i think can hinder some of our players at this time in their careers, they need to be exposed to the prem not a level that is significantly below that standard.

we've invested in the academy, lets give the boys time to develop in the first team, put out a side of local talent with a sprinkling of foreign starts and get behind it. to alot of the boys from the academy playing for saints is all theyve wanted to do and that counts for something. lets get the players out there for who the club really matters. Jim had a vision and a concept when he came to the club, lets not ditch that at the first sign of trouble.
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happyclapper
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Agree Mac.
Other than the fear that comes with the thought of wasted local talent...
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Wibble
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I think there are plusses and negatives to duel registration. Obviously game time is good but for backs especially there is more space and time that makes them look good but not test them as much as the prem. For me I would prefer them to get time in the Saints squad but if not its better to play some rugby than none at all. Thing is, some of these boys have been on the cusp for a while, and they have had chances but almost all have had injury problems that set them back. We dont want to try them all at the same time but one at a time is fair. My guess is the 6nations will give game time to collins. I would prefer if he had a little before then too, perhaps on the bench as cover for 11/14/15 ?
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big mac returns
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The next fours weeks are champions cup then LV, before the six nations begins.

for me id give some players a rest and give some others and opportunity. squad rotation is part of sport so i dont see how we can be called on fielding and weakened team. we did v leinster so do the same again. for the next four weeks id go with:

E Waller
Hayward (for lv bring in clare)
Hill
Api
Craig/Ribbins
Gibson
Clark (ludlem if clark isnt fit)
T
Dickson, lets get him firing again, did a good job seeing out the game v bristol
JJ
Collins
Mallinder
Hutch
Estelles/Packman (packman definitely for LV)
Foden
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