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Joffrey/Cersei Discussion thread; Soon to be Final Council Discussion
Topic Started: May 25 2014, 11:38 PM (396 Views)
Bronn
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I Sell My Sword
Sept of Baelor
Don't worry, I quickly understood what his vote switch thing was all about.

I like him because we had some good time as friends, but it's hard for me to respect him at all. I've had to deal twice with him whining like a little baby because I dared going against his nephew without telling him. I basically told him every time that it seemed obvious that he wouldn't do it. He'd say things like "We'll send Cersei/Joffrey in the Bear Pit at some point, we'd be idiots not to". But I knew that was bullshit because... how does that even begin to solve the actual Joffrey problem?

Obviously, his plan is not to go to the end with his wife because there's no way to accomplish that. Personally, I want him out tomorrow or Wednesday so we have interesting finals.

But, aye, if his strategy all along was to scoop anti-Joffrey votes... it's kind of pathetic. :/ Against Cersei or against Joffrey, it's debatable if he even manages to scoop one or two votes.
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Margaery Tyrell
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The Little Rose
Sept of Baelor
He indeed said "we'll send Joffrey and Cersei into the pits next, we'll be idiots not to" quite a lot. And since he never actually did it I think we can all make that assumption about him that he very often expressed. If he was lying the entire time and actually believed he had a shot against either of his relative, then he is even more of an idiot.

I won't lie, I liked his ravens from before, but when it came down to it for the last few rounds it just sounded as if he was lying and full of direwolf droppings. I was sick of the way he was handling himself, because everything he said seemed like it was some crafted half-truth. He was probably the most dishonest person to me in the game, and it was not even to play a good game. I never truly believed him, it just over and over soured me on him.

I much rather look forward to Joffrey/Cersei in the end. I have to give credit to the bastard king, he tried until the end with me. He never gave up, our ravens were quite amazing and he tried to convince me to not vote him constantly. It was a stark contrast to his mother who dropped me immediately when she no longer felt she could use me. But I still admire Cersei's social abilities.
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Margaery Tyrell
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The Little Rose
Sept of Baelor
Also, Sansa and I would have voted him this round if nothing more than for revenge. Unfortunately we had no guarantee Joffrey would not intervene, and well...there was no choice.
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Melisandre
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The Red Priestess
Sept of Baelor
I agree that I was surprised by Joffrey's level of effort. Even in talking to me, who everyone knew would probably prefer just be left alone with the Lord of Light's company. But Joffrey was very constantly messaging me and trying. I don't say this to mean Cersei didn't, just that I think her strengths are very obvious and don't need explaining, whereas Joffrey has something of a reputation. She still has him beat when it comes to convincing me that she had my back.
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Catelyn Stark
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Family. Duty. Honor.
Sept of Baelor
I have a question for the rest of the jury-what was the frequency of your PMs with Tyrion? With the exception of the opening round (several long PMs), some rounds where I was on Pyke (nothing), and my exit (two medium sized messages that basically boiled down to "You're an idiot and I am probably voting for you"), I received one very long PM from him per round that was just "Starks and Lannisters stick together! Highgarden's been after you by the way." I don't have a problem with people sending one substantial PM per round, Sansa did it sometimes and I'm voting for her if she makes the end without a minute's hesitation, but she also sent me valuable information in her messages whenever she sent them. But that comes down to me and her being close, and Tyrion...voted me out in the first round, so I don't want to assume he did it with everyone.

I have no doubt that some of you received more informative PMs from Tyrion because of closer relationships, but did you say...get PMs from him during voting periods, or just an update in the middle of the round from him whenever something he found important happened, or just anything more than what I got? Because Tyrion never replied to anything I wrote for 7 out of 9 rounds and everything I heard about what he was going to do was hearsay, usually from Sansa.
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Bronn
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I Sell My Sword
Sept of Baelor
Aye, well to be honest, part of me always thought that the little lord just never got over the fact that so many people made individual moves without noticing him at F10. I think he decided from that very moment that he'd stick with his relatives just to make F3 with them and that would be some sort of vengeance for him.

That's what I've feared since then. At final 6, he was awkwardly playing both sides, but he just went back to them in the end. He also pretended to me that his genius split vote plan bullshit failed because Cersei asked me to vote Sansa and I agreed and it seemed fishy. Hmmm, yeah right, as if that ridiculous thing was ever going to happen.

It's just hilarious because it's not like he really contributed to their success, let's be honest here. Even his votes tonight didn't end up mattering since Sansa won the tiebreaker.

But I'm not going to rant too much about his game, because even with all that said, I still enjoyed the little pampered shit. I just needed to vent a little.
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Bronn
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I Sell My Sword
Sept of Baelor
Catelyn Stark,May 27 2014
12:45:21 AM
I have a question for the rest of the jury-what was the frequency of your PMs with Tyrion? With the exception of the opening round (several long PMs), some rounds where I was on Pyke (nothing), and my exit (two medium sized messages that basically boiled down to "You're an idiot and I am probably voting for you"), I received one very long PM from him per round that was just "Starks and Lannisters stick together! Highgarden's been after you by the way." I don't have a problem with people sending one substantial PM per round, Sansa did it sometimes and I'm voting for her if she makes the end without a minute's hesitation, but she also sent me valuable information in her messages whenever she sent them. But that comes down to me and her being close, and Tyrion...voted me out in the first round, so I don't want to assume he did it with everyone.

I have no doubt that some of you received more informative PMs from Tyrion because of closer relationships, but did you say...get PMs from him during voting periods, or just an update in the middle of the round from him whenever something he found important happened, or just anything more than what I got? Because Tyrion never replied to anything I wrote for 7 out of 9 rounds and everything I heard about what he was going to do was hearsay, usually from Sansa.

We were using each other as support pre-merge when things were so horrible and we bonded because of it. We both told each other pretty much everything that happened on our ends, without really fearing that the other would use that information to screw us over. At least that's how I saw it.

Early merge, I was kind of disappointed because he'd always drop our PMs and then would only send me a quick bullshit recap PM an hour before every round, so we weren't really planning anything together. Mid-merge (aka after the F10 round), we talked more frequently, which is pretty funny because that's when our relationship was at its most fake point.
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Margaery Tyrell
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The Little Rose
Sept of Baelor
Catelyn Stark,May 27 2014
12:45:21 AM
I have a question for the rest of the jury-what was the frequency of your PMs with Tyrion? With the exception of the opening round (several long PMs), some rounds where I was on Pyke (nothing), and my exit (two medium sized messages that basically boiled down to "You're an idiot and I am probably voting for you"), I received one very long PM from him per round that was just "Starks and Lannisters stick together! Highgarden's been after you by the way." I don't have a problem with people sending one substantial PM per round, Sansa did it sometimes and I'm voting for her if she makes the end without a minute's hesitation, but she also sent me valuable information in her messages whenever she sent them. But that comes down to me and her being close, and Tyrion...voted me out in the first round, so I don't want to assume he did it with everyone.

I have no doubt that some of you received more informative PMs from Tyrion because of closer relationships, but did you say...get PMs from him during voting periods, or just an update in the middle of the round from him whenever something he found important happened, or just anything more than what I got? Because Tyrion never replied to anything I wrote for 7 out of 9 rounds and everything I heard about what he was going to do was hearsay, usually from Sansa.

I had many ravens that the little lord never got to. He talked once about us not being as close as can be, but it certainly was not for lack of trying on my part. I presume he was busy, but I will not lie that I was somewhat annoyed more than one of my extremely long ravens went unanswered since by the time he replied or I had to respond to him, the situation and dynamics had shifted completely. That was certainly not his strong suit. And on some level I believe we all suffered that, but I believe his was the most egregious with me. I 100% know what you are talking about Lady Stark.

To Bronn, it is true too that he never really "helped" them. I mean, congratulations throwing two votes onto me little lord last round, that certainly did something. I just felt like he was never crucial to the games that Cersei and Joffrey were playing. It seems that they did so well on their own merits. Certainly with me that is why they did so well. I do not mean to rag on him too much, but I just needed to say it all since it has been frustrating me greatly the way he has decided to play this game. It just is not good. And we all make bad choices but it seemed like Tyrion was committed to bad choices.






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Margaery Tyrell
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The Little Rose
Sept of Baelor
I also just spaced that post really badly, Bronn.
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Bronn
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I Sell My Sword
Sept of Baelor
I thought those giant gaps of yours only happened at the end of in your ravens. I was wrong.

Our Kingdoms have fallen with us, by the way. RIP Dragonstone and Highgarden.
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Bronn
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I Sell My Sword
Sept of Baelor
But back to the OP. Tonight's challenge has actually made me wonder if we underestimate Cersei as a challenge competitor. She's clearly not nearly as good as her little bastard, but she's probably as good compared to him in challenges as he is good compared to her socially. They are really a solid pair and it's really hard to be bitter.
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Melisandre
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The Red Priestess
Sept of Baelor
I was actually going to mention that earlier today- that I didn't think Cersei was a huge slouch, and it's just another nail in Tyrion's coffin unless Joffrey faces off against her.
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Sansa Stark
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Little Bird
Sept of Baelor
I think it's worth mentioning what happened tonight, and that's Tyrion being sent to face me. My argument against Joffrey being so incredible has been that he's never really managed to avoid dueling, and in a sense he has "gotten by" on challenges. And I know he's self-conscious about that because he told me before the duel tonight people respect the social game more than the challenge game and what not. But he can finally add outwit to his list of skills, with protecting himself and sending Tyrion in. I mean, surely, it was the obvious thing to do after having learned Tyrion was voting with them. But I'll still give him credit.

Tyrion's told me multiple times how he won't go against his sister, so if we're going to credit somebody with keeping him in line and preventing a ton of things from happening, it's all Cersei.

But she's benefited so well from the champion's twist. I don't hold that against her, I just hope nobody is thinking of Joffrey as the weaker player because he's been the one voted in each round. It would've been her if not for the champion's choice. Whatever, it's all probably been said in this thread before. My vote will really be determined by the strength of their arguments I think.
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Margaery Tyrell
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The Little Rose
Sept of Baelor
Joffrey has certainly taken the brunt of the damage. But in a way I do feel like we cornered him into that position. He was good at challenges and he was close to his mother, so we all rallied against them.

But this format was not kind to us, and the countless moves we made were fruitless. Joffrey avoiding the arena finally is pleasant for him, but certainly serves to prove the point made against Tyrion.

Cersei did exceedingly well, but I think we should not forget that the champion twist benefited her greatly. Whether that was her own doing, or if she just happened to be in a position where it benefited her is not totally known.

Let's be honest - if not for the champion twist, Cersei would have had to face many of the duels her son did.
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Bronn
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I Sell My Sword
Sept of Baelor
I'm not so sure about that Margaery, if only because she may actually have played a different game entirely.

For the sake of this game, I want Cersei and Joffrey to be the final 2 and I want it pretty bad. It would be one of the most interesting Final Councils ever, or at least from all the ones I have knowledge of.
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