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Chapter 1- Harko-shit?; Make yourselves heard!
Topic Started: Jan 16 2012, 09:18 PM (764 Views)
Harkovast
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The cause of all this silliness (sorry about that!)
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Now obviously, when Harkovast started out the art was a bit rough etc.
This is well known, and not the point of this topic.
This topic is because StyxD hates chapter 1 and I wonder if he has a point.
Now chapter one is not really essential per se, its more just a (hopefully) exciting opening with a battle to help us get a feel for whats going on and give us a quick run down of a few key concepts we need to know.
So technically you could rework the the start to largely remove this section.
Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?
worth the bother or a waste of time?
Let me know what you think!
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Tiberia
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White Wolf
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I think this should go in the hall of shame.
current Avatr is from the Cyborg series of commisions by Strype. check him out
Favorite pony- RAINBOW DASH
"F*** Nihilism"
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Frostwolf18
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i have seen alot of people rework their beginnings, it kinda took away time from the story, and with an update schedule like yours it is hard to say actually

if you updated multiple times a week i would have no problem with you reworking the beginning, so it would be easier to get new readers, but since its once a week, i would possibly wait till you finish a chapter before attempting this.
lets see
amateur writer, anime fan, rock lover, freedom seeker, not an otaku, history lover (i love it but it hates me), and.... crap

435 points
more shall come
mwhahahahahaha

IT'S A MADWORLD! REVEL IN IT!!!
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Harkovast
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Tiberius you are right...now I need to remember how to move topics.

There we go!

Anyway, Frostwolf do you think chapter 1 is bad? Did you find it lame as you looked at it?

That's not a trick question or anything, whether you liked it or not is cool.

I just want some feed back on how people feel about it.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Canuovea
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Hmm. Not really, I think you could keep it. Like everything done some time ago, it could do with some reworking, but... I'd rather the story goes full steam ahead as it is now.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Frostwolf18
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The Watcher
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i don't think chapter one is bad, though when i looked at your comic, i put it in my tabs so that i would read it later, it did interest me, but then again i am not the right person to ask these things, i read alot of comics for alot of things
lets see
amateur writer, anime fan, rock lover, freedom seeker, not an otaku, history lover (i love it but it hates me), and.... crap

435 points
more shall come
mwhahahahahaha

IT'S A MADWORLD! REVEL IN IT!!!
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Harkovast
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Well obviously its difficult to do a proper survey of this sort of thing.
I cant really ask people who dont like it cause they aren't here (and they might well be people it will just never appeal to anyway), but its just seeing what the general opinion on the matter is.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Harkovast
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Thats it! I am doing it!
I am changing it!
looking back...the start was really fucking wordy.
Why the hell does quinn-tain talk so much?
Do I have wizard tourettes?
Is someone paying you guys to read all that shit? What kind of hack, pretencious moron is writing this....oh wait...thats me isn't it?

Okay, well the point is this, I am now getting rid of most of chapter one (shock horror!) and cutting the word count elsewhere DRASTICALLY.
Most of what they say becomes self evident anyway, so I am cutting right back on the waffle.
The first battle was actually pretty cool...but its really redundant when I look back on it. It doesn't tell us anything we dont learn elsewhere, so now its being taken out.
Kapow!
Call me George Lucas!
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Wordweaver_three
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Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a drastic change. I do have some minor issues Mr. Luc- ah, I mean Stribley.

The hidden fang is not explained now, which I guess is okay since we do see it switchblade. The mechanical hand of Shogun also is not explained. A reader might simply assume he wears a gauntlet on that hand for some reason. So when he crushes that Tsung-Dao's face we are left to assume that he's amazingly strong as opposed to the fact that he has a magic vise on the end of his arm.

Also, check the spelling in the Muir speech about chivalry in combat.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Harkovast
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Well I think a little bit of mystery is fun in a comic.

Which page am I looking for with the spelling mistakes? I cant find it.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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Could it be a difference between English and "American English" spelling?
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Harkovast
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The cause of all this silliness (sorry about that!)
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Could it be that I am flipper handed moron who cant type properly?
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Renard
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I wouldn't go that far, your spelling/grammar in the actual comic is usually pretty good.
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Harkovast
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I r ded gud a spell word annd gramor.

"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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In the comic.

Sometimes your spelling and grammar on the forum is dead awful, but mostly when you're writing a particularly hateful review of something, and I assume you're really hammering away on the keyboard.
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Harkovast
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Hahah, yeah thats a good image.
Me so full of hate that I am just battering the keys as fast as I can.
To be honest that is pretty close to the truth.
I generally cant be bothered to spell check the reviews till I read over them later and notice they dont actually make any sense.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Wordweaver_three
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The page is The Wisdom of Muir. Small typo.

I've gotten pretty good at separating US from UK spelling so I don't think it's that.

I really just scanned through the pages to see what changes were made. I wasn't actively looking for errors. I can't say for sure there are no others, but that one just stuck out at me.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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I see it. Third panel "I can's..."

I couldn't find it before, you said it was in Chapter 1, that's Chapter 5.
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Wordweaver_three
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I never said it was in chapter 1.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Harkovast
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Found it.
Its amazing how long small typos can sit in there without getting noticed.

I dont bother to correct the comic on Drunk Duck, Deviant Art or Furr Affinity, so if you are not reading it on the official site you are missing out on the definitive version.
So you guys are like the Harko-fan elite.

THanks for bringing that to my attention Wordweaver. Have 50 harkopoints.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Canuovea
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We're the elite! We are awesome!
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Wordweaver_three
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50 Harkopoints!

I'll add those to my old points.

Aw, shit. They expired.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Harkovast
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Assume you were on about 200, so you have 250 right now.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Wordweaver_three
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250?

How many do I need for the leather jacket with Chen-Chen in a bikini airbrushed on the back?
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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Yeah Hark, and I want a new Jeep, how many points until I get one of those?
5020 Harkopoints
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Harkovast
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You can get all those things if you want them badly enough and donate lots of money to Harkovast.
It's all about visualising your dreams!
By my new self help book for only 25.99 and you too can unlock the awesome potential within yourself to acquire material possessions!

Okay...all you really get with Harko-points is bragging rights.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Wordweaver_three
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I'm totally gonna make a jacket with a near naked Chen-Chen (or maybe Scatterpod?) on the back. It'll say "I got this jacket at Harkovast.com" across the bottom. Then folks will come here and be disappointed that there isn't any nudity or jackets with nude characters to buy.

Then you'll have to release naked Harkovast swag due to overwhelming demand. World peace will follow.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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Why not both Chen-Chen and Scatterpod?
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Wordweaver_three
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Furry Harko lesbian make-out pic.

Good idea.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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I'm surprised that you didn't think of that.
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Harkovast
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That's how I will make my millions!
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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Just remember Wordweaver and me when you have more money than God.
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Canuovea
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Does God have money?

... I mean, the Vatican has money, but I'm pretty sure they use it all themselves.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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Somehow I knew you were going to ask that...

Any one of us has more money than God, but "More money than the Pope" doesn't sound the same.
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Canuovea
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Oh, damn, I'm becoming predictable.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Harkovast
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When you give money to the catholic church it goes directly to God (spiritually...obviously the Pope and his mates keep the real physical money. They aren't crazy! Big hats and robes are not cheap!)
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Renard
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Nor is running the smallest sovereign nation in the world, complete with Swiss mercenaries.
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Wordweaver_three
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I'm not sure how great Swiss mercs are. Do they ever actually fight? In the past 200 years has there ever been any actual violence perpetrated by the Swiss?

I mean, their banks, sure, but their soldiers?
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Harkovast
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There was a period of history (you will have to go look it up...I think late medieval but dont quote me) where the swiss mercenaries were known to be the best in the world.

Historically the swiss have always had a strong military (to back up their neutrality, you need to be able to put off would be attackers.)
Even today they have a large and well equipped military.
Though obviously these days it seems a bit pointless to spend so much (since they are surrounded by european nations so the idea of them getting attacked is pretty silly) its considered a patriotic thing and a symbol of their proud independence (lets face it...they are probably the most independent nation in the world! They dont have a commitment to anybody!) They still have national service where young men serve a term in the military.

So hooray for Switzerland!
Harkovast does not really have an entirely neutral country in that sense...though it has ones that actively involve getting involved in foreign disputes.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Wordweaver_three
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It was the Swiss army knives that makes them so tough. The distinct advantage that a corkscrew, a pipe cleaner, and tiny scissors gives you in combat has been proven over the years.

And of course they use their cheese for target practice. That's where the holes come from.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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Kiwifox
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Any person serving in the Swiss militia is required by law to keep their military issued weapons in their home, including their fully-automatic assault rifle (although they can't keep military issued ammunition at their home, and civilian supplies of 5.56mm NATO are allowed, but government controlled). So for 10 years out of their life, every man in Switzerland is required by law to keep a military rifle in his possession.

Consider also that the Wehrmacht supply lines from Germany to Italy had to go through France, rather than taking a direct route by rail through Switzerland. Germany would have invaded Switzerland during the war, but they found out that the Swiss had set up defenses that would have caused thousands of casualties, and that they intended to destroy all roads and railways that were in the path of a German advance (if it came to that).

The army that took over almost the entirety of Europe with little effort, one of the greatest examples of an Evil Empire, was scared to invade a little neutral nation that was surrounded on all sides by their armies.

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Wordweaver_three
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I don't think it was so much that they were scared of them, more along the lines of why bother? The Swiss had made it perfectly clear that they had no intention of getting involved in the war outside of aggressive action by the Nazi's. What's more they were perfectly happy to take bribes in exchange for continued neutrality. The war was very lucrative for the Swiss and once the Germans controlled every country on the border they essentially had the Swiss in control anyway. They were completely cut off from the rest of the world. The Swiss were defeated without the Germans ever stepping foot into the country.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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Yes and no. Had Britain been invaded successfully, and had the war on the Eastern Front gone in favor of Germany (i.e., had the Wehrmacht ignored Hitler and sent their available strength to take the oilfields in the Caucasus rather than pouring men, material, and equipment into taking Stalingrad) then they would have annexed Switzerland. But in the interim they controlled the direct paths to Italy via rail and road, which would have helped when the Allies invaded and began gaining ground in the Mediterranean, rather than wasting time and fuel moving war materials from Germany through France.

Perhaps scared isn't the best word, but wary? Yes. Not so much because the high command imagined the Swiss being capable of harming Germany, but because they knew that an invasion of Switzerland could very well lead to a Pyrrhic victory. They would get the banks and everything kept in them, but a lot of the major roads and rail lines would be impassible for months at least if the Swiss military decided to cut their losses and blow things up.
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Wordweaver_three
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Saying the Swiss have a great fighting force is like saying you're a great chess player, even though you've never played chess.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda is irrelevant. What did happen was the Swiss accepted wealth they knew was stolen from the Jews. What did happen was Switzerland produced and sold arms to the Axis. What did happen was the Swiss GDP spiked monstrously during the war. What did happen was the Swiss stood by idly behind their precious "neutrality" while some of the most horrific events in European history occurred.

The Swiss told themselves for generations that "The Nazi's feared our military might", but that's a lie. The Germans could have rolled them as easily as they did Poland. There was simply no need to, the Swiss were willingly doing everything for them they would have them do anyway. The added bonus was that the Allies weren't going to bomb the weapons factories of a "neutral" country.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Renard
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I never said they have a great and proven fighting force, I'm saying that it would be a little tricky invading a country that has a lot of guns, and has made clear they they're willing to use scorched earth policies to make sure the enemy gets nothing useful from them.

I don't really think that it's fair to say that the Swiss should have done something considering that any action against Germany would have resulted in their being invaded, and perhaps getting their share of atrocities for good measure. They did collaborate to some extent, this is true, but IBM provided the computers needed to organize the operation of the concentration and death camp system, and the British military received intelligence about the location and purpose of several death camps but refuse to act, or when the USAF and RAF bombed Dresden, targeting the city center rather than the industrialized suburbs, or

If you chose a nation during the war you can find something that they or certain groups within them should or should not have done. No nation involved in any war can escape without at least one event that tarnishes their record.


Why are we discussing this on the thread about the first chapter of Harkovast being awful?
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Canuovea
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To be fair to the Swiss, I probably wouldn't have antagonized the Nazis in their position either. It just wouldn't end well. Hell, the Germans wouldn't have even needed to send in ground troops, they could have just bombed the country to rubble.

But the Swiss still fucked up in other ways. For instance, even with full knowledge of the death camps, and even before that they knew about that they knew about persecution of Jews, they made it deliberate policy to keep Jews out of the country.

One country that actually did a decent job of staying Neutral was Yurkey. Inonu knew that he would have gotten rolled by Germany, despite being somewhat pro-allies. Even when the allies were winning, it was quite obvious that a large German airbase right beside the Turkish border would have caused large amounts of damage. So Turkey only came in on the allies side very late game in order to get into the UN (just like other nations, like some in Latin America).

As for the Swiss, I had a German uncle who wasn't too fond of them. Or maybe he was just joking when he called them the "fucking gnomes".
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Wordweaver_three
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"Why are we discussing this on the thread about the first chapter of Harkovast being awful?"


Hey, you brought it up.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Canuovea
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Derailing threads is our speciality.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Renard
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I'm pretty sure that no one is really too fond of Switzerland (as a nation), except the Swiss. People don't really trust neutral countries, and I suppose they can't be blamed for that; you can't always be sure where you stand with them, but you can be certain that they're sneaky bastards.
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Canuovea
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You've basically described America to the European powers during the 19th century. They just didn't want to make alliances.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Renard
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You can also be sure that they're self-serving and unlikely to take an interest in the affairs of others unless it could affect them or they could prosper from the situation.
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Canuovea
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My god, the Americans from the 1800s...
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Renard
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Let's smite the bastards.
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Canuovea
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I dunno. I'm not sure about getting into a fight with Andrew Jackson or even Abraham Lincoln.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Wordweaver_three
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America did spend most of the 19th century primarily concerned with themselves. They hardly even bothered to war with anyone outside their borders.
I traded in my Harko-points for Bitcoins.

I think I got ripped off.
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Harkovast
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I guess the Golta would be the most "swiss" style nation, since they dont want to get involved in anyone elses politics or alliances.
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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Renard
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Lincoln was 10" taller than me and could hold his own in a fight, and Andrew Jackson had more experience than me when it came to dueling and beating seven shades of shit out of would-be assassins.

But we're talking about smiting turn of the last century America, not presidents who had been dead since at least the 1860s. I can win a fight with a lifeless corpse easily enough, they tend not to do much when you hit them.
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Canuovea
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Lincoln was about 6'4''... I've family that tall.
Resident philosophy and history nut. And amateur swordsman.

"Purple swords? Darsai are weird." -Elyssa

I have: 3861 Harko-points +1000
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Harkovast
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Apparently he was also skilled at killing confederate vampires.
And since it was probably vampires that killed him he might well be alive in his coffin with super vampire powers.
So I wouldn't risk calling him out, Renard! He might suit up in his stove pipe again and come after you!
"The details escape me right now." -Sir Muir on life.
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