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The Psychological Aspect: For Those Who Have Played The Game; AND THOSE WHO REALLY HAVEN'T . . .
Topic Started: Jan 10 2018, 10:57 AM (409 Views)
Hollywood
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Die-hard Reds
Aussiepool
Jan 27 2018, 11:55 PM
When Keegan left Dalglish came in.
When Suarez left, Lambert, Balotelli and Borini were brought
When Stevie retired, Henderson took over
When Coutinho was sold , we were told that Lallana and Oxlade will cover for him.

You just don’t sell your very best player and think it’s ok to continue without him. Would Man. City not try to buy someone if De Brunye was out , or would they say “ were ok. We have Fernandinho , Yaya Toure and Delph can play there also “

We are run by great owners off the field but really lame shitty ones on the field.


Still can’t defend although they just spent a world record fee for a defender.
Sorry OZ, but who, besides posters on Kop This, has suggested Oxlade and Lallana would replace Phil? It is another of the convenient "mooted non-facts" which gets bandied about and, when repeated enough, conveniently becomes gospel for several posters.

The facts are we sold Phil, and used that money to buy VVD, Keita, and Salah. I have not heard Klopp mention any players would directly replace Phil. Has anyone. Apologies in advance if he has.
Platform 2015 "parks, if i want to say anything constructive i wont use this forum mate."


A Classic Kop Talk Posting
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Aussiepool
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Elite Reds
Klopp said it in two different interviews that although Phil has qualities that no other player has on his team that with Oxlade and/or Lalana and different tactics etc that he has the tools to move forward without Coutinho and that they will NOT be buying a replacement for him.

That's what Klopp said in not those the words I'm paraphrasing here but you should get the base of it.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
Snigger
Jan 30 2018, 03:01 PM
ThePenkethPedant
Jan 28 2018, 10:52 PM
Some may point to the effect of Coutinho leaving, but for that matter the arrival of Van Djk could have had an effect too- not necessarily beneficial...( although he was a popular man when scoring v Everton,of course- I think: I'd like to look at that footage again...)
Yes 'true PP so we live in HOPE. Also this psychology thing I'm attempting to pursue is backed up by TGM Shanks, apparently because of err destabilising effects he strictly prohibited players getting married during the season? Can you recall that PP? I'm not sure what he'd think of selling say St. John, Hunt, Thompson or Callaghan during the season????? Cheers :))
Neither St. John, Hunt, Thompson nor Callaghan agitated to leave the club. How did you feel about the McManaman and Owen departures? That's more food for thought. Not even Spanish nor Portuguese lads. I think that if any of our stars of Shankly's era asked to leave he would have accommodated them really fast. I don't believe Shankly would have hung on to a wantaway player more than five minutes after he found out.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
Snigger
Jan 28 2018, 09:12 AM
Red pippin
Jan 27 2018, 11:04 PM
Coutinho wasn't missed against City, one of the harder games of the season, I felt that this team can be so frustrating and that was also often the case when Coutinho played, we didn't lose today because Coutinho was transferred, we lost because we didn't play as a team.
Regarding the psychology of losing players we won the European cup when Keegan left, players who fall apart when that happens do not have the wherewithal to play in a top team, losing a player should be a stimulus for others and often is,
Hearing what your saying saying RP, however, there are the usual caveats and though I too wish the likes of Couts leaving was to have no effect whatsoever, I don't think the questions raised by his departure are easily undone by the likes of your fine post.

Keegan's leaving was a lifetime ago now - 41 years. Things off-field are somewhat different now, football then though popular was more localised, more limited in its appeal, its appeal these days due to technology is now universal as indeed is football coverage, ergo dint of such, a move such as Keegan's was far less impactive, far less "ripple effect".

Also Keegan saw out the season, he did not quit in the January had he of done, Liverpool fans may well have noticed a rather more damaging effect. Also he was "immediately" replaced by Dalglish. To sign Dalglish we had to break the British Transfer Fee record, we have not done anything like that that in regard to Couts; so using the Keegan departure as a benchmark as you are attempting to do, we would have to spend what £75 - £100 million this month?When we have not seemingly replaced Couts at all.

Also the Liverpool team of 1977 was "full of stars", European Champions as they were and here's the psychological crunch used to winning things (success breeding success) and thus was far more capable of losing its best player and coping - NOT that it had to - Paisley bringing Dalglish in as stated. (We should have brought a Lamar or a Fekir in, having had one lined up for some time, [as Paisley did], to compensate for any impact Cout's departure might or could have) "

Added to the Coutinho's departure please notice I also mention the "Salah stuff", so given the above I still question the merit of allowing Coutinho to leave in January. Father Time as I always say will in his own sweet time reveal all. The FACT now remains, the only chance we have of a Trophy is the ECL, otherwise it's YET another trophyless season for Liverpool FC . . . . . . . . . . . . and I do know why we are in this err drought.

As I also keep repeating we must all HOPE Klopp is the wonder worker we all HOPED he was / is - he needs to be!!!
For all the agonising and breast beating about Coutinho's departure, the fact is that, with his contribution last season and the first half of this season we have managed fourth place. We are currently still there, with a decent gap over the fifth and sixth place challengers. We are practically in third.
For those who point to the 140 mill or thereabouts that we received for Coutinho, about 20 mill is dependent on future performance, and theoretically might never arrive. A big chunk of the fee has gone on Van Dijk, and we are committed to pay out big time for Keita in a few months. There actually isn't a lot left over for a player like Lemar, and we would have to dig deep for him. At this stage Giroud is affordable, but we don't want him. In a year or so, Solanke will be a better striker, I believe. And the price for Aubameyang is out of sight for a player of his age. He is a good striker, but hardly a good investment. Arsenal will pay over the odds, but Wenger is acting out of desperation. Personally, I'm OK with going with Klopp's judgement. I would certainly trust him over any of the pundits, either on here, or on TV.
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Aussiepool
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Elite Reds
We must not forget the Klopp factor here either. He has specific players stuck in his head that he will to buy and won’t just spend on anyone.

Waited 6 full months for VVD and a year for Keita.

My only beef on this situation is the Coutinho sale now in January. Barcelona are a million miles ahead in La Liga already and he is CL cup tied anyway so why let him leave now ? Liverpool would of used him and perhaps would not of been eliminated in the FA Cup so early , a trophy the desperate fans who are starving for some success could of used.
FSG knew for about a year now that Coutinho would walk so isn’t there someone , anywhere in World football that Klopp could of visioned to fit his style and join now ? For the latter part of the Season ?

Only matters if they can hang on to a 4 th finish
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Hollywood
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Die-hard Reds
Camelot
Jan 30 2018, 10:34 PM
Snigger
Jan 30 2018, 03:01 PM
ThePenkethPedant
Jan 28 2018, 10:52 PM
Some may point to the effect of Coutinho leaving, but for that matter the arrival of Van Djk could have had an effect too- not necessarily beneficial...( although he was a popular man when scoring v Everton,of course- I think: I'd like to look at that footage again...)
Yes 'true PP so we live in HOPE. Also this psychology thing I'm attempting to pursue is backed up by TGM Shanks, apparently because of err destabilising effects he strictly prohibited players getting married during the season? Can you recall that PP? I'm not sure what he'd think of selling say St. John, Hunt, Thompson or Callaghan during the season????? Cheers :))
Neither St. John, Hunt, Thompson nor Callaghan agitated to leave the club. How did you feel about the McManaman and Owen departures? That's more food for thought. Not even Spanish nor Portuguese lads. I think that if any of our stars of Shankly's era asked to leave he would have accommodated them really fast. I don't believe Shankly would have hung on to a wantaway player more than five minutes after he found out.
You hire mercenaries, you get mercenaries. You buy Hispanics, they'll eventually want to fuck off to Spain. Loads of examples of clubs winning the European cup with not a single Hispanic. Perhaps we should make it policy. In the mean, you risk losing any Hispanic players you sign to Spain.

Enoch Powell
Edited by Hollywood, Jan 31 2018, 05:29 AM.
Platform 2015 "parks, if i want to say anything constructive i wont use this forum mate."


A Classic Kop Talk Posting
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Hollywood
Member Avatar

Die-hard Reds
Aussiepool
Jan 30 2018, 11:40 PM
We must not forget the Klopp factor here either. He has specific players stuck in his head that he will to buy and won’t just spend on anyone.

Waited 6 full months for VVD and a year for Keita.

My only beef on this situation is the Coutinho sale now in January. Barcelona are a million miles ahead in La Liga already and he is CL cup tied anyway so why let him leave now ? Liverpool would of used him and perhaps would not of been eliminated in the FA Cup so early , a trophy the desperate fans who are starving for some success could of used.
FSG knew for about a year now that Coutinho would walk so isn’t there someone , anywhere in World football that Klopp could of visioned to fit his style and join now ? For the latter part of the Season ?

Only matters if they can hang on to a 4 th finish
Why indeed oz? Why indeed. I think Phil forced the move. Not sure where I read it, or if I made it up, but I reckon he protested. In his mind, he had gone. Put his foot down and demanded a move in January.

Suarez was gone before the 2014 season, but stayed on because Stevie G asked him for another 12 months. He essentially felt the club lied to him about letting him go. That they reneged on their promise, and that Rodgers did nothing to support him.

This all from Gerrards book.

Point is, few of us knows the truth what goes on behind closed doors. Even years later, some details are not made clear.

Assumptions on most forums are worth a pinch of salt, at best.

Platform 2015 "parks, if i want to say anything constructive i wont use this forum mate."


A Classic Kop Talk Posting
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Hollywood
Member Avatar

Die-hard Reds
Camelot
Jan 30 2018, 10:52 PM
Snigger
Jan 28 2018, 09:12 AM
Red pippin
Jan 27 2018, 11:04 PM
Coutinho wasn't missed against City, one of the harder games of the season, I felt that this team can be so frustrating and that was also often the case when Coutinho played, we didn't lose today because Coutinho was transferred, we lost because we didn't play as a team.
Regarding the psychology of losing players we won the European cup when Keegan left, players who fall apart when that happens do not have the wherewithal to play in a top team, losing a player should be a stimulus for others and often is,
Hearing what your saying saying RP, however, there are the usual caveats and though I too wish the likes of Couts leaving was to have no effect whatsoever, I don't think the questions raised by his departure are easily undone by the likes of your fine post.

Keegan's leaving was a lifetime ago now - 41 years. Things off-field are somewhat different now, football then though popular was more localised, more limited in its appeal, its appeal these days due to technology is now universal as indeed is football coverage, ergo dint of such, a move such as Keegan's was far less impactive, far less "ripple effect".

Also Keegan saw out the season, he did not quit in the January had he of done, Liverpool fans may well have noticed a rather more damaging effect. Also he was "immediately" replaced by Dalglish. To sign Dalglish we had to break the British Transfer Fee record, we have not done anything like that that in regard to Couts; so using the Keegan departure as a benchmark as you are attempting to do, we would have to spend what £75 - £100 million this month?When we have not seemingly replaced Couts at all.

Also the Liverpool team of 1977 was "full of stars", European Champions as they were and here's the psychological crunch used to winning things (success breeding success) and thus was far more capable of losing its best player and coping - NOT that it had to - Paisley bringing Dalglish in as stated. (We should have brought a Lamar or a Fekir in, having had one lined up for some time, [as Paisley did], to compensate for any impact Cout's departure might or could have) "

Added to the Coutinho's departure please notice I also mention the "Salah stuff", so given the above I still question the merit of allowing Coutinho to leave in January. Father Time as I always say will in his own sweet time reveal all. The FACT now remains, the only chance we have of a Trophy is the ECL, otherwise it's YET another trophyless season for Liverpool FC . . . . . . . . . . . . and I do know why we are in this err drought.

As I also keep repeating we must all HOPE Klopp is the wonder worker we all HOPED he was / is - he needs to be!!!
For all the agonising and breast beating about Coutinho's departure, the fact is that, with his contribution last season and the first half of this season we have managed fourth place. We are currently still there, with a decent gap over the fifth and sixth place challengers. We are practically in third.
For those who point to the 140 mill or thereabouts that we received for Coutinho, about 20 mill is dependent on future performance, and theoretically might never arrive. A big chunk of the fee has gone on Van Dijk, and we are committed to pay out big time for Keita in a few months. There actually isn't a lot left over for a player like Lemar, and we would have to dig deep for him. At this stage Giroud is affordable, but we don't want him. In a year or so, Solanke will be a better striker, I believe. And the price for Aubameyang is out of sight for a player of his age. He is a good striker, but hardly a good investment. Arsenal will pay over the odds, but Wenger is acting out of desperation. Personally, I'm OK with going with Klopp's judgement. I would certainly trust him over any of the pundits, either on here, or on TV.
With you in most of that....
Platform 2015 "parks, if i want to say anything constructive i wont use this forum mate."


A Classic Kop Talk Posting
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Snigger
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
Camelot
Jan 30 2018, 10:52 PM
Snigger
Jan 28 2018, 09:12 AM
Red pippin
Jan 27 2018, 11:04 PM
Coutinho wasn't missed against City, one of the harder games of the season, I felt that this team can be so frustrating and that was also often the case when Coutinho played, we didn't lose today because Coutinho was transferred, we lost because we didn't play as a team.
Regarding the psychology of losing players we won the European cup when Keegan left, players who fall apart when that happens do not have the wherewithal to play in a top team, losing a player should be a stimulus for others and often is,
Hearing what your saying saying RP, however, there are the usual caveats and though I too wish the likes of Couts leaving was to have no effect whatsoever, I don't think the questions raised by his departure are easily undone by the likes of your fine post.

Keegan's leaving was a lifetime ago now - 41 years. Things off-field are somewhat different now, football then though popular was more localised, more limited in its appeal, its appeal these days due to technology is now universal as indeed is football coverage, ergo dint of such, a move such as Keegan's was far less impactive, far less "ripple effect".

Also Keegan saw out the season, he did not quit in the January had he of done, Liverpool fans may well have noticed a rather more damaging effect. Also he was "immediately" replaced by Dalglish. To sign Dalglish we had to break the British Transfer Fee record, we have not done anything like that that in regard to Couts; so using the Keegan departure as a benchmark as you are attempting to do, we would have to spend what £75 - £100 million this month?When we have not seemingly replaced Couts at all.

Also the Liverpool team of 1977 was "full of stars", European Champions as they were and here's the psychological crunch used to winning things (success breeding success) and thus was far more capable of losing its best player and coping - NOT that it had to - Paisley bringing Dalglish in as stated. (We should have brought a Lamar or a Fekir in, having had one lined up for some time, [as Paisley did], to compensate for any impact Cout's departure might or could have) "

Added to the Coutinho's departure please notice I also mention the "Salah stuff", so given the above I still question the merit of allowing Coutinho to leave in January. Father Time as I always say will in his own sweet time reveal all. The FACT now remains, the only chance we have of a Trophy is the ECL, otherwise it's YET another trophyless season for Liverpool FC . . . . . . . . . . . . and I do know why we are in this err drought.

As I also keep repeating we must all HOPE Klopp is the wonder worker we all HOPED he was / is - he needs to be!!!
For all the agonising and breast beating about Coutinho's departure, the fact is that, with his contribution last season and the first half of this season we have managed fourth place. We are currently still there, with a decent gap over the fifth and sixth place challengers. We are practically in third.
For those who point to the 140 mill or thereabouts that we received for Coutinho, about 20 mill is dependent on future performance, and theoretically might never arrive. A big chunk of the fee has gone on Van Dijk, and we are committed to pay out big time for Keita in a few months. There actually isn't a lot left over for a player like Lemar, and we would have to dig deep for him. At this stage Giroud is affordable, but we don't want him. In a year or so, Solanke will be a better striker, I believe. And the price for Aubameyang is out of sight for a player of his age. He is a good striker, but hardly a good investment. Arsenal will pay over the odds, but Wenger is acting out of desperation. Personally, I'm OK with going with Klopp's judgement. I would certainly trust him over any of the pundits, either on here, or on TV.
Is there breast beating Cam, in regard to Coutinho's departure? Really? Not seen much if any on here, some fans even disliked, 'hated' and / or didn't rate him herein "he's weak" "he goes missing" etc etc , check out the Coutinho Threads as an example, one poster preferring by way of inSINuation of preferring Henderson qualities to Coutinho's. Anyway all that aside there certainly isn't any breast beating in my post, even allowing for different definitions that may be contained in the terminology "breast beating" and I should know ;) .

This Thread was meant to bring a different aspect to bear in an analytical attempt to establish / confirm why we continue to endure a dearth of trophies, because despite all the hot-air expended and all the keyboards constantly hammered, this remains the far reaching monolithic, sky scraping, bald FACT of the matter, everything else being just that, "everything else".

That being the case in my estimation all aspects of this problem requires any enlightenment possible and I've never seen a Thread on any Liverpool Forum yet that deals with the psychological import or complexities of losing a Top Player, they in the main repeatedly tend to concentrate on the money raised those for and against in regard to the players sale and the fantasy involved in spending the money. I remember some fans on Forums, this one included being quite happy with Suarez's departure because of the money coming in - you never hear that now of clourse, but I recall it so well.

Our lack of trophies is becoming dire and the most concerning aspect for some of us WHO WISH LIVERPOOL FC TO REMAIN A REAL FORCE in the game (business) is witnessing the seemingly ever pervading acceptability of this state of affairs.

You mention Klopp's judgement all well and good, I'm all for that! However, in doing so you neglect the fact of tom, toms beating and knives having been out for his departure and that they will be out again, IF we sustain a couple more defeats and most especially IF, that's IF we don't make the Top 4 or win the ECL. There are already Threads on here, "Klopp Out", "Davy Liver Taxis" for Klopp etc, etc, etc, you surely can't have missed them Cam?

Anyone who can't see that Coutinho's departure and failure to replace him holds the serious potential of weakening our squad; doesn't understand footy, wishes to exist in some form of perverse HOPE, OR makes themselves blind for whatever reasons, maybe the fact that they didn't like him etc, etc, and so on and so on.

That being the case then we are back to HOPE, the HOPE as I repeatedly say being that KLopp is the wonder worker we all HOPE he is. Losing your best players means he has to be . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Salah being next????????? :))
THE ABOVE CONTRIBUTION IS SIMPLY AN OPINION. I AM NOT LOOKING TO BITTERLY ARGUE OR FALL OUT BUT RATHER MATURELY DEBATE MATTERS SHOULD IT DIFFER FROM YOURS

FOOD IS HABIT FORMING !!!
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