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Is our first team squad balanced?
Topic Started: Feb 1 2018, 09:28 AM (387 Views)
DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
Edited by DickWhiteog, Feb 2 2018, 08:29 AM.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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BnB
Super Red
I would be more concerned if we don't upgrade our GK and the other two MF positions this summer, than be concerned about fringe players leaving. GK, CB, DM, AM and backup attacker(s) are what I hope will be the incomings.
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Rushiestache

Super Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
Same thing occurred in the 2014 January transfer window. We didn't strengthen when just a couple of more quality additions especially in defence could possibly have taken us to the title.

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DickWhiteog
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Elite Reds
BnB
Feb 2 2018, 01:24 PM
I would be more concerned if we don't upgrade our GK and the other two MF positions this summer, than be concerned about fringe players leaving. GK, CB, DM, AM and backup attacker(s) are what I hope will be the incomings.
These are the same positions we all wanted to see upgraded last Summer , and possibly the summer before. A pattern emerges .....

What we think we need and what we get are two entirely different things.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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BnB
Super Red
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 01:55 PM
BnB
Feb 2 2018, 01:24 PM
I would be more concerned if we don't upgrade our GK and the other two MF positions this summer, than be concerned about fringe players leaving. GK, CB, DM, AM and backup attacker(s) are what I hope will be the incomings.
These are the same positions we all wanted to see upgraded last Summer , and possibly the summer before. A pattern emerges .....

What we think we need and what we get are two entirely different things.
Compared to the squad Klopp inherited, do you think the one that started this season is any better? Do you see any progress?
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BnB
Super Red


Current Squad (copied off Wikipedia not JB this time):

1 Germany GK Loris Karius
2 England DF Nathaniel Clyne
4 Netherlands DF Virgil van Dijk
5 Netherlands MF Georginio Wijnaldum
9 Brazil FW Roberto Firmino
11 Egypt FW Mohamed Salah
12 England DF Joe Gomez
14 England MF Jordan Henderson (captain)
17 Estonia DF Ragnar Klavan
18 Spain DF Alberto Moreno
19 Senegal FW Sadio Mané
21 England MF Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
23 Germany MF Emre Can
26 Scotland DF Andrew Robertson
28 England FW Danny Ings
29 England FW Dominic Solanke
32 Cameroon DF Joël Matip
52 Wales GK Danny Ward
58 Wales FW Ben Woodburn
66 England DF Trent Alexander-Arnold

Replace these players as a minimum:

6 Croatia DF Dejan Lovren
7 England MF James Milner (vice-captain)
20 England MF Adam Lallana
22 Belgium GK Simon Mignolet
34 Hungary GK Ádám Bogdán ** Just needs binning.

Add to the above list these players who are gone or will be - Danny Sturridge, Markovic and Coutinho.

New GK, CB, DM, AM, Attacker, those alone could be as much as £200m, depending on who the replacement for Phil is and how much the keeper will be. I would hope we raid the Bundesliga and build a squad for now and the future, then our biggest outgoing would be goalkeeper. If Promes is available for £30m, he would be worth considering for backup to Salah\Mane and even Firmino.

Ezri Konsa from Charlton is one we have been linked with (£8m), in the past Tah is another (reported he has a 25m euro release clause). Brandt was supposed to be first choice instead of Salah, he supposedly has a release clause as well, that comes into play this summer.

Outgoings could raise £80m.
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John_Boy

Legendary Reds
Out:

Milner
Hendo
Lallana
Sturridge
Karius
Mingo
Lovren
Moreno
Origi

In:
Donn
Manolas
Draxler
Lewandowski /muller
Eriksen
Seri/Kondogbia
The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪
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Camelot

Elite Reds
Hollywood
Feb 2 2018, 03:57 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 1 2018, 10:32 PM
Hollywood
Feb 1 2018, 10:08 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 1 2018, 01:59 PM
Hollywood
Feb 1 2018, 12:23 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 1 2018, 12:08 PM
VVD replacing Sakho ?
OX and Salah Mids replacing Leiva and Stewart ?
Robertson FB replacing Wisdom FB?
Solanke Replacing Origi?

Now can you tell me who has been brought in to replace the following :
Coutinho
Studge
Kent
Allan
Chirivella
Randall
Awonyi
Ojo
Markovic
Grujic
Flannagan
Wilson
Ejaria


The who is who of "who"...... right there in your list of players left. Outside Phil of course. Clearly, they were not needed. How (or rather why) do you replace those not needed.

How many are we allowed on a squad? 25? Honestly dunno.

As for Sturridge. You are having a laugh right? A suitable replacement would be Aquilani. A full time nurse?

Which begs the question does it not - what the f*ck are all those losers doing being bought and listed by LFC as first team squad members?

Why the F*ck have we been paying for these players , and why are they here . Also Why can we not get shut of them permanently ?

Once proper players are brought in the need for a state of the art 6 speed revolving door maybe done away with.

Perhaps some of the "Edwin Hawkins " singers can explain that . :thumbsup:

As for squad numbers Hols check the Offy - they have 38 or 39 players listed as first team , so there is your answer.
Who indeed? Assume they cost nowt, so why bust a blood vessel if they leave?
Markovic at 20m - I wish I could class that as Nowt.!!

And presumably they have all been picking up wages for the past umpteen years.

Next.......
ok worth nowt works better. And just who was the vagina that bought him?

so are you for or against the cull? Make your mind up....
I don't think you can consider the departures a 'cull' because most of the players will be coming back. They have been sent out to lower teams to get experience or to recover their form, for the most part.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
I don't think the situation is as dire as you fear. Most of the players will be returning, and if we need one to compensate for injuries, we can always renegotiate the player loan and bring him back. With the other club's consent, of course.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
PS. For the inexperienced loanees, the natural progression would be to bring in even younger players and develop them. As we plan to do with Gallagher. It might not be 'like for like; in fact it probably won't be.
Regarding your last sentence, we have been investing in players, too. Salah, Chamberlain, and Virgil are all investments made in the last two windows.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
John_Boy
Feb 2 2018, 04:37 PM
Out:

Milner
Hendo
Lallana
Sturridge
Karius
Mingo
Lovren
Moreno
Origi

In:
Donn
Manolas
Draxler
Lewandowski /muller
Eriksen
Seri/Kondogbia
Still have a hankering for those 'over 6'2" strikers', I see. We will never see those two in an LFC shirt. They don't fit the profile. Huge transfer fees and wages, and a short career from both is what we could expect.
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DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
I agree with your requirements BnB . The squad is bigger than that listed .

However

Karius was added to the 3 gk s who are still here from Klopps inheritance = No improvement IMO
Clyne is still here in spirit but not body
Van Dyke is a definite improvement on Sakho
Lovren is still here
Matip is weaker than Skrtel , or Toure
Klavan is better than Caulker , but arguably not as good as Skrtel.
Gomez was here
Moreno was here
TAA is learning his trade and is better than Randall or Maguire .
Robertson is an upgrade on no LB worth mentioning.
Henderson and Can were already here
Milner was already here
Oxlade is not an upgrade on Coutinho
Wijnaldum is probably equivalent to Allen
Lallana was here
Nobody has replaced our DM Lucas
Firmino was here
Mane has replaced Ibe which is an upgrade
Salah has replaced Studge
Ings was already here
Nobody has replaced Origi
Nobody has replaced Benteke.

Solanke and Woodburn are two young lads whereas there were a shedload of young lads .

Its a tough call - there are improvements definitely , undoubtedly attacking wise but I am not sure what the final eefect of selling Coutts is going to be on the others , he has not been adequately replaced.

Kloppy has brought in some of his own players and is trying to play them as much as possible

Karius, Matip, Wijnaldum ,VVD, Ox , Mane, Salah , Robertson .

Of those I personally only rate Salah, Mane,VVD and Robertson .

I think Karius is awful , as is Matip , but their fees are representative of their quality 4.5m and free, Wino is not a game changer or a game saver and as such is a "nothing" player. Ox plays a decent game now and again but totally lacks any consistency ( it may come).

Pointedly the players who I think are good enough are in the main expensive , which indicates where the players are that are needed to push on to the next level.

It would be great to unearth young , hungry lads for peanuts and blend them into a unit , but that is getting more and more impossible with the situation where the BIG teams buy the quality they need , they dont go searching round the bins at the back of the store for bargains.

Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 04:55 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
PS. For the inexperienced loanees, the natural progression would be to bring in even younger players and develop them. As we plan to do with Gallagher. It might not be 'like for like; in fact it probably won't be.
Regarding your last sentence, we have been investing in players, too. Salah, Chamberlain, and Virgil are all investments made in the last two windows.
Cammy , you do not increase your investments by putting 75m into a high earning account on the first of the month and then remove 145m from a similar account a fortnight later.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
off profile PBquote top
 
Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 05:05 PM
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 04:55 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
PS. For the inexperienced loanees, the natural progression would be to bring in even younger players and develop them. As we plan to do with Gallagher. It might not be 'like for like; in fact it probably won't be.
Regarding your last sentence, we have been investing in players, too. Salah, Chamberlain, and Virgil are all investments made in the last two windows.
Cammy , you do not increase your investments by putting 75m into a high earning account on the first of the month and then remove 145m from a similar account a fortnight later.
If you are considering the player's transfer fee and contract as the investment, it doesn't stop with one divestiture and one acquisition. This was just one transfer window. A deferred investment, in fact all future investments, have to be considered. Klopp has said that all of the Coutinho money will be spent, ie. reinvested. He didn't say it would be spent in this transfer window. It would be a much fairer evaluation to make it over a longer time frame. And the longer, the more fair.
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John_Boy

Legendary Reds
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 05:00 PM
John_Boy
Feb 2 2018, 04:37 PM
Out:

Milner
Hendo
Lallana
Sturridge
Karius
Mingo
Lovren
Moreno
Origi

In:
Donn
Manolas
Draxler
Lewandowski /muller
Eriksen
Seri/Kondogbia
Still have a hankering for those 'over 6'2" strikers', I see. We will never see those two in an LFC shirt. They don't fit the profile. Huge transfer fees and wages, and a short career from both is what we could expect.
Aubi was a klopp striker in a klopp system?
The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪
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DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 05:38 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 05:05 PM
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 04:55 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
PS. For the inexperienced loanees, the natural progression would be to bring in even younger players and develop them. As we plan to do with Gallagher. It might not be 'like for like; in fact it probably won't be.
Regarding your last sentence, we have been investing in players, too. Salah, Chamberlain, and Virgil are all investments made in the last two windows.
Cammy , you do not increase your investments by putting 75m into a high earning account on the first of the month and then remove 145m from a similar account a fortnight later.
If you are considering the player's transfer fee and contract as the investment, it doesn't stop with one divestiture and one acquisition. This was just one transfer window. A deferred investment, in fact all future investments, have to be considered. Klopp has said that all of the Coutinho money will be spent, ie. reinvested. He didn't say it would be spent in this transfer window. It would be a much fairer evaluation to make it over a longer time frame. And the longer, the more fair.
But this is the second transfer window with a lack of investment , there is a pattern . We are the only Premier league team , it seems making a profit over the past two windows .
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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John_Boy

Legendary Reds
where is all this money going?
The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪
on profile PBquote top
 
Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:07 PM
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 05:38 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 05:05 PM
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 04:55 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM
The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year.

I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever .

I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up.

I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits .

For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players.
PS. For the inexperienced loanees, the natural progression would be to bring in even younger players and develop them. As we plan to do with Gallagher. It might not be 'like for like; in fact it probably won't be.
Regarding your last sentence, we have been investing in players, too. Salah, Chamberlain, and Virgil are all investments made in the last two windows.
Cammy , you do not increase your investments by putting 75m into a high earning account on the first of the month and then remove 145m from a similar account a fortnight later.
If you are considering the player's transfer fee and contract as the investment, it doesn't stop with one divestiture and one acquisition. This was just one transfer window. A deferred investment, in fact all future investments, have to be considered. Klopp has said that all of the Coutinho money will be spent, ie. reinvested. He didn't say it would be spent in this transfer window. It would be a much fairer evaluation to make it over a longer time frame. And the longer, the more fair.
But this is the second transfer window with a lack of investment , there is a pattern . We are the only Premier league team , it seems making a profit over the past two windows .
Well, we have a commitment in a few months that will effectively wipe out the surplus Coutinho funds after the Virgil acquisition. One that we made for Naby Keita before either the Coutinho or the Virgil deals. I don't know the terms of the Keita deal, but I wouldn't rule out that we have already forked over some cash to secure the transfer. Without the transfer of funds the agreement wouldn't be legal, in my opinion. I have bought several houses in my lifetime, and each offer was accompanied with a cheque for a substantial down payment. As I pointed out, taking only one transfer window into consideration can be very misleading. I don't know why you think there was no investment last summer. We acquired Salah, Robertson, and Chamberlain. In a sense, the investment in TAA and Gomez has been coming to fruition as well, although the money changed hands quite some years ago. More evidence that you can't consider one transfer window in isolation.
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DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
Surely when you invest to grow a business you put back in the profits you make to grow to the next level.

Where is all the excess transfer funds, tv money and sponsorship money going? Are they investing it elsewhere?
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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Camelot

Elite Reds
John_Boy
Feb 2 2018, 08:10 PM
where is all this money going?
If you are referring to the Coutinho transfer money, over 20% is withheld, and may never materialise if results don't show. Also, a fee of the magnitude quoted is usually paid in installments, so future installments aren't available to be used at this point. Some went on the Virgil acquisition, and most of the rest will go on Keita. The leftover funds, if any, are presumably sitting in the bank account waiting future disposition.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 2 2018, 10:00 PM
Surely when you invest to grow a business you put back in the profits you make to grow to the next level.

Where is all the excess transfer funds, tv money and sponsorship money going? Are they investing it elsewhere?
"Surely when you invest to grow a business you put back in the profits you make to grow to the next level."

That would be productive and prudent. But there is no requirement to disburse the profits made in one transfer window in the same transfer window. Klopp has told the media that the Coutinho money will be reinvested in players.

"Where is all the excess transfer funds, tv money and sponsorship money going? Are they investing it elsewhere?"

I have already responded to the 'excess transfer funds' part of the question. As far as investing the income elsewhere, I'm sure that the stadium improvements haven't been paid off yet, by a long shot. I'm sure a big chunk of revenue has gone in that direction. The greatest single outlay of any club goes in player wages. by a wide margin. Sources put the club's wage bill at around 208 million per annum. Add to that the cost of staff salaries, the cost of running the Academy, travel costs, etc. When they travel they don't stay in cheap hotels. And yes, there will be an outflow of funds for the shareholders, as there is for any club.
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ThePenkethPedant

Super Reds
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 10:06 PM
John_Boy
Feb 2 2018, 08:10 PM
where is all this money going?
If you are referring to the Coutinho transfer money, over 20% is withheld, and may never materialise if results don't show. Also, a fee of the magnitude quoted is usually paid in installments, so future installments aren't available to be used at this point. Some went on the Virgil acquisition, and most of the rest will go on Keita. The leftover funds, if any, are presumably sitting in the bank account waiting future disposition.
About 25% withheld: Barca paid £106m immediately ( no instalments ), the rest of the £142m is dependent on Coutinho's appearances and trophies won by the club.
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John_Boy

Legendary Reds
ThePenkethPedant
Feb 2 2018, 11:01 PM
Camelot
Feb 2 2018, 10:06 PM
John_Boy
Feb 2 2018, 08:10 PM
where is all this money going?
If you are referring to the Coutinho transfer money, over 20% is withheld, and may never materialise if results don't show. Also, a fee of the magnitude quoted is usually paid in installments, so future installments aren't available to be used at this point. Some went on the Virgil acquisition, and most of the rest will go on Keita. The leftover funds, if any, are presumably sitting in the bank account waiting future disposition.
About 25% withheld: Barca paid £106m immediately ( no instalments ), the rest of the £142m is dependent on Coutinho's appearances and trophies won by the club.
£106mil + tv money + sponsorship money etc

Minus the deposit/1st instalment of vvd.

Plus lasts summers surplus?

Would be keen to know what is the surplus and if it tallies up with peoples thoughts.....
The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪
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