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| Is our first team squad balanced? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 1 2018, 09:28 AM (387 Views) | |
| DickWhiteog | Feb 2 2018, 08:26 AM Post #26 |
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The Cull has been ongoing since FSG took over . It seems that we keep producing sufficient numbers of Sh*t players to be able to have a cull every year. I have no problems as previously stated with emptying out poor players , although it seems to take us forever . I would genuinely like to see a few decent replacements for these coming in though , otherwise we might as well do away with most of our back up. I do have a problem with a first team squad that is threadbare , and this is the second January transfer window running that we have left ourselves short of quality players at a time when we could possibly go on to better things , presumably in the name of cost cutting and declaring profits . For the second window in a row we have made money from transfers , unlike the other top clubs who are investing in players. Edited by DickWhiteog, Feb 2 2018, 08:29 AM.
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Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32 for all those affected by Hillsborough | |
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| BnB | Feb 2 2018, 01:24 PM Post #27 |
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Super Red
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I would be more concerned if we don't upgrade our GK and the other two MF positions this summer, than be concerned about fringe players leaving. GK, CB, DM, AM and backup attacker(s) are what I hope will be the incomings. |
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| Rushiestache | Feb 2 2018, 01:30 PM Post #28 |
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Same thing occurred in the 2014 January transfer window. We didn't strengthen when just a couple of more quality additions especially in defence could possibly have taken us to the title. |
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| DickWhiteog | Feb 2 2018, 01:55 PM Post #29 |
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These are the same positions we all wanted to see upgraded last Summer , and possibly the summer before. A pattern emerges ..... What we think we need and what we get are two entirely different things. |
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Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32 for all those affected by Hillsborough | |
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| BnB | Feb 2 2018, 02:36 PM Post #30 |
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Super Red
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Compared to the squad Klopp inherited, do you think the one that started this season is any better? Do you see any progress? |
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| BnB | Feb 2 2018, 04:17 PM Post #31 |
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Super Red
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Current Squad (copied off Wikipedia not JB this time): 1 Germany GK Loris Karius 2 England DF Nathaniel Clyne 4 Netherlands DF Virgil van Dijk 5 Netherlands MF Georginio Wijnaldum 9 Brazil FW Roberto Firmino 11 Egypt FW Mohamed Salah 12 England DF Joe Gomez 14 England MF Jordan Henderson (captain) 17 Estonia DF Ragnar Klavan 18 Spain DF Alberto Moreno 19 Senegal FW Sadio Mané 21 England MF Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 23 Germany MF Emre Can 26 Scotland DF Andrew Robertson 28 England FW Danny Ings 29 England FW Dominic Solanke 32 Cameroon DF Joël Matip 52 Wales GK Danny Ward 58 Wales FW Ben Woodburn 66 England DF Trent Alexander-Arnold Replace these players as a minimum: 6 Croatia DF Dejan Lovren 7 England MF James Milner (vice-captain) 20 England MF Adam Lallana 22 Belgium GK Simon Mignolet 34 Hungary GK Ádám Bogdán ** Just needs binning. Add to the above list these players who are gone or will be - Danny Sturridge, Markovic and Coutinho. New GK, CB, DM, AM, Attacker, those alone could be as much as £200m, depending on who the replacement for Phil is and how much the keeper will be. I would hope we raid the Bundesliga and build a squad for now and the future, then our biggest outgoing would be goalkeeper. If Promes is available for £30m, he would be worth considering for backup to Salah\Mane and even Firmino. Ezri Konsa from Charlton is one we have been linked with (£8m), in the past Tah is another (reported he has a 25m euro release clause). Brandt was supposed to be first choice instead of Salah, he supposedly has a release clause as well, that comes into play this summer. Outgoings could raise £80m. |
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| John_Boy | Feb 2 2018, 04:37 PM Post #32 |
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Out: Milner Hendo Lallana Sturridge Karius Mingo Lovren Moreno Origi In: Donn Manolas Draxler Lewandowski /muller Eriksen Seri/Kondogbia |
| The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪 | |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 04:44 PM Post #33 |
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I don't think you can consider the departures a 'cull' because most of the players will be coming back. They have been sent out to lower teams to get experience or to recover their form, for the most part. |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 04:47 PM Post #34 |
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I don't think the situation is as dire as you fear. Most of the players will be returning, and if we need one to compensate for injuries, we can always renegotiate the player loan and bring him back. With the other club's consent, of course. |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 04:55 PM Post #35 |
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PS. For the inexperienced loanees, the natural progression would be to bring in even younger players and develop them. As we plan to do with Gallagher. It might not be 'like for like; in fact it probably won't be. Regarding your last sentence, we have been investing in players, too. Salah, Chamberlain, and Virgil are all investments made in the last two windows. |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 05:00 PM Post #36 |
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Still have a hankering for those 'over 6'2" strikers', I see. We will never see those two in an LFC shirt. They don't fit the profile. Huge transfer fees and wages, and a short career from both is what we could expect. |
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| DickWhiteog | Feb 2 2018, 05:03 PM Post #37 |
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I agree with your requirements BnB . The squad is bigger than that listed . However Karius was added to the 3 gk s who are still here from Klopps inheritance = No improvement IMO Clyne is still here in spirit but not body Van Dyke is a definite improvement on Sakho Lovren is still here Matip is weaker than Skrtel , or Toure Klavan is better than Caulker , but arguably not as good as Skrtel. Gomez was here Moreno was here TAA is learning his trade and is better than Randall or Maguire . Robertson is an upgrade on no LB worth mentioning. Henderson and Can were already here Milner was already here Oxlade is not an upgrade on Coutinho Wijnaldum is probably equivalent to Allen Lallana was here Nobody has replaced our DM Lucas Firmino was here Mane has replaced Ibe which is an upgrade Salah has replaced Studge Ings was already here Nobody has replaced Origi Nobody has replaced Benteke. Solanke and Woodburn are two young lads whereas there were a shedload of young lads . Its a tough call - there are improvements definitely , undoubtedly attacking wise but I am not sure what the final eefect of selling Coutts is going to be on the others , he has not been adequately replaced. Kloppy has brought in some of his own players and is trying to play them as much as possible Karius, Matip, Wijnaldum ,VVD, Ox , Mane, Salah , Robertson . Of those I personally only rate Salah, Mane,VVD and Robertson . I think Karius is awful , as is Matip , but their fees are representative of their quality 4.5m and free, Wino is not a game changer or a game saver and as such is a "nothing" player. Ox plays a decent game now and again but totally lacks any consistency ( it may come). Pointedly the players who I think are good enough are in the main expensive , which indicates where the players are that are needed to push on to the next level. It would be great to unearth young , hungry lads for peanuts and blend them into a unit , but that is getting more and more impossible with the situation where the BIG teams buy the quality they need , they dont go searching round the bins at the back of the store for bargains. |
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Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32 for all those affected by Hillsborough | |
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| DickWhiteog | Feb 2 2018, 05:05 PM Post #38 |
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Cammy , you do not increase your investments by putting 75m into a high earning account on the first of the month and then remove 145m from a similar account a fortnight later. |
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Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32 for all those affected by Hillsborough | |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 05:38 PM Post #39 |
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If you are considering the player's transfer fee and contract as the investment, it doesn't stop with one divestiture and one acquisition. This was just one transfer window. A deferred investment, in fact all future investments, have to be considered. Klopp has said that all of the Coutinho money will be spent, ie. reinvested. He didn't say it would be spent in this transfer window. It would be a much fairer evaluation to make it over a longer time frame. And the longer, the more fair. |
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| John_Boy | Feb 2 2018, 05:42 PM Post #40 |
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Aubi was a klopp striker in a klopp system? |
| The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪 | |
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| DickWhiteog | Feb 2 2018, 08:07 PM Post #41 |
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But this is the second transfer window with a lack of investment , there is a pattern . We are the only Premier league team , it seems making a profit over the past two windows . |
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Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32 for all those affected by Hillsborough | |
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| John_Boy | Feb 2 2018, 08:10 PM Post #42 |
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where is all this money going? |
| The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪 | |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 09:57 PM Post #43 |
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Well, we have a commitment in a few months that will effectively wipe out the surplus Coutinho funds after the Virgil acquisition. One that we made for Naby Keita before either the Coutinho or the Virgil deals. I don't know the terms of the Keita deal, but I wouldn't rule out that we have already forked over some cash to secure the transfer. Without the transfer of funds the agreement wouldn't be legal, in my opinion. I have bought several houses in my lifetime, and each offer was accompanied with a cheque for a substantial down payment. As I pointed out, taking only one transfer window into consideration can be very misleading. I don't know why you think there was no investment last summer. We acquired Salah, Robertson, and Chamberlain. In a sense, the investment in TAA and Gomez has been coming to fruition as well, although the money changed hands quite some years ago. More evidence that you can't consider one transfer window in isolation. |
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| DickWhiteog | Feb 2 2018, 10:00 PM Post #44 |
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Surely when you invest to grow a business you put back in the profits you make to grow to the next level. Where is all the excess transfer funds, tv money and sponsorship money going? Are they investing it elsewhere? |
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Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32 for all those affected by Hillsborough | |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 10:06 PM Post #45 |
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If you are referring to the Coutinho transfer money, over 20% is withheld, and may never materialise if results don't show. Also, a fee of the magnitude quoted is usually paid in installments, so future installments aren't available to be used at this point. Some went on the Virgil acquisition, and most of the rest will go on Keita. The leftover funds, if any, are presumably sitting in the bank account waiting future disposition. |
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| Camelot | Feb 2 2018, 10:59 PM Post #46 |
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"Surely when you invest to grow a business you put back in the profits you make to grow to the next level." That would be productive and prudent. But there is no requirement to disburse the profits made in one transfer window in the same transfer window. Klopp has told the media that the Coutinho money will be reinvested in players. "Where is all the excess transfer funds, tv money and sponsorship money going? Are they investing it elsewhere?" I have already responded to the 'excess transfer funds' part of the question. As far as investing the income elsewhere, I'm sure that the stadium improvements haven't been paid off yet, by a long shot. I'm sure a big chunk of revenue has gone in that direction. The greatest single outlay of any club goes in player wages. by a wide margin. Sources put the club's wage bill at around 208 million per annum. Add to that the cost of staff salaries, the cost of running the Academy, travel costs, etc. When they travel they don't stay in cheap hotels. And yes, there will be an outflow of funds for the shareholders, as there is for any club. |
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| ThePenkethPedant | Feb 2 2018, 11:01 PM Post #47 |
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About 25% withheld: Barca paid £106m immediately ( no instalments ), the rest of the £142m is dependent on Coutinho's appearances and trophies won by the club. |
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| John_Boy | Feb 3 2018, 08:32 AM Post #48 |
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£106mil + tv money + sponsorship money etc Minus the deposit/1st instalment of vvd. Plus lasts summers surplus? Would be keen to know what is the surplus and if it tallies up with peoples thoughts..... |
| The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪 | |
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