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Can cans LFC for Juvo
Topic Started: Feb 7 2018, 11:52 AM (718 Views)
ThePenkethPedant

Super Reds
I reckon the only way to keep 'want away' players at a club is to employ gangsters to threaten them and their families with the direst of consequences should they persist in that attitude. Couple of snags: the players are rich enough to buy off the mobsters themselves and pay them in turn to threaten the club's officials, and (2) word would get around and few players would want to join a club with such 'enforcers' lying in wait...
'Bosman ' is the worst thing that has ever happened to our football scene, and the best thing ever for players and agents...
off profile PBquote top
 
Hollywood
Member Avatar

Die-hard Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Putting players under contract does little to stop players leaving.

Phil was under contract when he left. It made no difference. He did the club a favour, knowing he too could have been an asshole and simply gone on a free. Perhaps he has had second thoughts about it now, in light of what Sanchez just did.

Suarez too was under contract. With all respect to Can, these players mattered to the club, so they were 'secured'. Can, not so critical or valuable to the club. It is mooted (I love that word) can asked too much from the club. One can only assume he too has fashioned his own exit.

Can is not wanted by Barca. It is debateable he is wanted by anyone? The likelihood of receiving money from an Italian club is slim to none. They probably told him to wait out his contract, and they would take him on. Fits the Italian MO.

You see, I live in a smoke free home, were my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's until proven otherwise. It is just an opinion like yours after all. Then again, I have no personal agenda against the owners. I think them neither hear nor there. For some, FSG form the basis of their existence on this forum.
Edited by Hollywood, Feb 8 2018, 11:10 AM.
Platform 2015 "parks, if i want to say anything constructive i wont use this forum mate."


A Classic Kop Talk Posting
off profile PBquote top
 
BnB
Super Red
Emere Can has just turned 24 and has been played more often than not under Klopp. We bought badly under the last manager and it shouldn't be the case, that we play a young player as much as we have done. Milner is 32 and Hendo is 27, those two should have been the mainstay of our CM, but neither are good enough for a team that aspires for top 4 and beyond.

Once Keita comes in, we need to get an able partner for him, plus a replacement for Phil. Demirabay and Brandt would be money well spent if the fees are correct. Also need a DM type MF,

GK, CM, AM, backup attackers - at least 5 players?

To replace Migs, Sturridge, Phil, Emre and Lallana?

Timo Horn could be a good option if we can't get our other GK targets (his club will likely be relegated). It will depend how well Karius does I suspect.


off profile PBquote top
 
chalky the red

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
"There are no real gods , only those that believe gods are real"
Unknown
on profile PBquote top
 
cactusjon
Member Avatar
Moderator
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
Edited by cactusjon, Feb 8 2018, 11:52 AM.
Posted Image
off profile PBquote top
 
DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
Its really hard work this -

I am saying that the club should have sorted out his contract well before they attempted to , and secured him so that they could sell on at a FEE , maybe 20-50m ,

Its a simple business situation I thought , but some fans do not seem to see the business side of p*ssing away millions.

I have never suggested they should keep him or sell him. I was merely expressing the opinion that it is poor business to let a valuable player go for free , but maybe I live in the wrong universe.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
off profile PBquote top
 
chalky the red

Elite Reds
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
there is a simple solution when a player refuses to sign a contract ,

Thumb screws, if thumb screws do not work.
Put his head in a vice , if that fails
Then hook him up to the mains electricity , interspersed with waterboarding!

He will soon give up the position of the rebels ...er ,,, and by that I mean sign a contract for lfc😀😀
"There are no real gods , only those that believe gods are real"
Unknown
on profile PBquote top
 
Rushiestache

Super Reds
Never make him captain again.. it's a disgrace.. one decision I totally disagree with Klopp on .. making the likes of him and Coutinho captain.. leaves us looking like fookin' idiots

off profile PBquote top
 
DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 12:00 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
there is a simple solution when a player refuses to sign a contract ,

Thumb screws, if thumb screws do not work.
Put his head in a vice , if that fails
Then hook him up to the mains electricity , interspersed with waterboarding!

He will soon give up the position of the rebels ...er ,,, and by that I mean sign a contract for lfc😀😀
No - the simple thing to do is offer a contract extension when there are 2 years left and if the player does not sign one with 12 -18 months left , sell him .

That way you get a return on your investment .

Alternatively you can cross your fingers and hope for the best and then say oh well it does not matter as an asset departs for zilch.

Which do you prefer Chalky my old mucka?
Edited by DickWhiteog, Feb 8 2018, 01:48 PM.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
off profile PBquote top
 
Camelot

Elite Reds
ThePenkethPedant
Feb 7 2018, 11:28 PM
I reckon the only way to keep 'want away' players at a club is to employ gangsters to threaten them and their families with the direst of consequences should they persist in that attitude. Couple of snags: the players are rich enough to buy off the mobsters themselves and pay them in turn to threaten the club's officials, and (2) word would get around and few players would want to join a club with such 'enforcers' lying in wait...
'Bosman ' is the worst thing that has ever happened to our football scene, and the best thing ever for players and agents...
'Bosmans' are a fact of life and need to be managed as such. If they result in a player leaving because he can get a better deal elsewhere, when a contract extension is turned down, when the terms are considered the best that the club can offer based on their valuation of the player, I don't see that the club can do more and still behave responsibly. Paying excessively doesn't look like the answer to me. 'Bosmans' in general can cut both ways. In Can's case, there will be a loss if he leaves. (More on that later). The other side of the coin is that there are opportunities to buy players from other clubs who are also running down their contracts. If there is a challenge to our club's management, perhaps it is in failing to acquire one of those other impending 'Bosmans' such as Goretzka. In the past we have signed a number of players on 'Bosmans', although at the moment I would be hard pushed to remember one who was of pivotal importance during his tenure. Maybe Titi Camara for a short time. Frustrations are understandable when a good player leaves on a 'Bosman', but they don't seem to matter to me as much as some people think. Neither Coutinho nor Suarez were on 'Bosmans', but they prised themselves a way out of their contracts anyway to join the club they desired.
There is a lot of bile being spilled about this situation. Yet it is not yet clear to me that his departure is certain. A lot of supporters are reacting to the recent media stories that 'an agent' has told the media that Can has agreed to sign for Juventus. In the first place, the agent quoted isn't even Can's agent. In the second place, an 'agreement' that has not been signed is no agreement at all. If it is true, why hasn't Juventus done the obvious thing and made an announcement to that effect? There is no reason for them to keep it secret. I'm sure if our club had pulled off a coup of this magnitude they would hold a news conference pretty quickly. I'm not saying that Can will stay with our club, but there does seem to be something lacking in the offers from other clubs, otherwise the deal would already have been done.
off profile PBquote top
 
BnB
Super Red
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
off profile PBquote top
 
Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 8 2018, 01:47 PM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 12:00 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
there is a simple solution when a player refuses to sign a contract ,

Thumb screws, if thumb screws do not work.
Put his head in a vice , if that fails
Then hook him up to the mains electricity , interspersed with waterboarding!

He will soon give up the position of the rebels ...er ,,, and by that I mean sign a contract for lfc😀😀
No - the simple thing to do is offer a contract extension when there are 2 years left and if the player does not sign one with 12 -18 months left , sell him .

That way you get a return on your investment .

Alternatively you can cross your fingers and hope for the best and then say oh well it does not matter as an asset departs for zilch.

Which do you prefer Chalky my old mucka?
It's not as easy as you portray it that a player should be made to sign a new contract 2 years before it expires, or be transferred. The club doesn't own the player's right arm, (or left arm, depending on which one the player uses). Accordingly the club is stuck with the player, if he refuses to sign. What does the club do then? Bench him until he gives in? Apart from being against the EPL rules, and a matter for likely action by the players' association, it looks very much like 'cutting off your nose to spite your face', don't you think? Don't you think every other player at the club, and many more at other clubs, would be antagonised by such coercion?
off profile PBquote top
 
Camelot

Elite Reds
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 02:35 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
Ah, another breach of the rules. Just another potential action that would be considered punitive, guaranteed to get the club hauled before a tribunal and get the players' association hopping mad and looking for retribution.
off profile PBquote top
 
BnB
Super Red
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:41 PM
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 02:35 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
Ah, another breach of the rules. Just another potential action that would be considered punitive, guaranteed to get the club hauled before a tribunal and get the players' association hopping mad and looking for retribution.
A difficult one, but we see it a lot from clubs. I suppose they can just make up the player is not performing like they were before or their mind is elsewhere etc.

It is mainly just a threat to get them out of the club.
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chalky the red

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 8 2018, 01:47 PM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 12:00 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
there is a simple solution when a player refuses to sign a contract ,

Thumb screws, if thumb screws do not work.
Put his head in a vice , if that fails
Then hook him up to the mains electricity , interspersed with waterboarding!

He will soon give up the position of the rebels ...er ,,, and by that I mean sign a contract for lfc😀😀
No - the simple thing to do is offer a contract extension when there are 2 years left and if the player does not sign one with 12 -18 months left , sell him .

That way you get a return on your investment .

Alternatively you can cross your fingers and hope for the best and then say oh well it does not matter as an asset departs for zilch.

Which do you prefer Chalky my old mucka?
Preferably we would sell players for more than we bought them for (always)
Can isn't so good a player that he an hold our feet to the fire.

Should salah or firmino decide , they are not ready to signs contract extension ... Would you sell them with 18 months left on thier contracts?
Or Suarez, Torres, fowler, daglish , Owen , etc

would this rule apply to every player?


"There are no real gods , only those that believe gods are real"
Unknown
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Danny
Member Avatar

Super Reds
What's happening with Can is no longer unusual in our game, player and agents don't give a toss for the club they play for, it's all about money , myself i get blaise with all this what's going on in football, the game is no longer for the fans, footballs turned us into mugs, we still believe in what our club stands for, unfortunately owners like ours and others who own football clubs are owners for one reason only and that's money. I still watch the game but look forward to the rugby nowadays more than the football, the hype and bullshit in the game is unreal, false and sadly ruining the game
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DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:41 PM
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 02:35 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
Ah, another breach of the rules. Just another potential action that would be considered punitive, guaranteed to get the club hauled before a tribunal and get the players' association hopping mad and looking for retribution.
Leaving a player out of your side is a simple action for the Manager . He would maybe only have to explain to his bosses why.

How LFC is run in terms of picking a team has nothing whatsoever to do with the PFA or any other outside body , unless they are picking an understrength team , when the FA may get involved.

If a player is not chosen to play that's it - end of , no reason has to be given by the manager , other than maybe saying he is not selected for the team , and its his decision .

Quite simple really and it is done with a degree of regularity - I would Cite Markovic as a fine example this season . QED.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 8 2018, 05:31 PM
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:41 PM
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 02:35 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
Ah, another breach of the rules. Just another potential action that would be considered punitive, guaranteed to get the club hauled before a tribunal and get the players' association hopping mad and looking for retribution.
Leaving a player out of your side is a simple action for the Manager . He would maybe only have to explain to his bosses why.

How LFC is run in terms of picking a team has nothing whatsoever to do with the PFA or any other outside body , unless they are picking an understrength team , when the FA may get involved.

If a player is not chosen to play that's it - end of , no reason has to be given by the manager , other than maybe saying he is not selected for the team , and its his decision .

Quite simple really and it is done with a degree of regularity - I would Cite Markovic as a fine example this season . QED.
There are various reasons why a player can be dropped, benched, or whatever. But I feel sure that if a player is disciplined for not signing an extension to his contract, not only do I believe it would be against the EFL's own rules, but it would end up in the courts really fast. An employer can't coerce an employee into signing a contract using such means.
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BnB
Super Red
Klopp has said he only wants players who want to be here and are committed. He could interpret Can's actions as he wants away. That can be explained to Emre as he comes off the training pitch. Nothing official just a friendly chat.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 06:36 PM
Klopp has said he only wants players who want to be here and are committed. He could interpret Can's actions as he wants away. That can be explained to Emre as he comes off the training pitch. Nothing official just a friendly chat.
Klopp's 'friendly chat' approach along the lines you suggest would be one of the worst things he could do. A lawyer would leap all over that in an instant. And Klopp's following through on the 'friendly chat' by being as good as his word would be all the proof the lawyer would need that coercion was at play. Can has expressed his commitment on the field, and Klopp appears to accept that.
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DickWhiteog
Member Avatar

Elite Reds
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 06:31 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 8 2018, 05:31 PM
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:41 PM
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 02:35 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
Ah, another breach of the rules. Just another potential action that would be considered punitive, guaranteed to get the club hauled before a tribunal and get the players' association hopping mad and looking for retribution.
Leaving a player out of your side is a simple action for the Manager . He would maybe only have to explain to his bosses why.

How LFC is run in terms of picking a team has nothing whatsoever to do with the PFA or any other outside body , unless they are picking an understrength team , when the FA may get involved.

If a player is not chosen to play that's it - end of , no reason has to be given by the manager , other than maybe saying he is not selected for the team , and its his decision .

Quite simple really and it is done with a degree of regularity - I would Cite Markovic as a fine example this season . QED.
There are various reasons why a player can be dropped, benched, or whatever. But I feel sure that if a player is disciplined for not signing an extension to his contract, not only do I believe it would be against the EFL's own rules, but it would end up in the courts really fast. An employer can't coerce an employee into signing a contract using such means.
You do fear the lawyers Cammy don't you.

I would not expect a Club to be stupid enough to tell a player they were disciplining him for not signing an extension.

Quite simply he would be "dropped" bearing in mind the manager is building a team and as the player is not committing himself to that team then
there can be no problem leaving him out . At which point said player has to find another club , particularly in a WC year .

The fact our club has failed to do something , either get a signature or sell IMHO is an abject failing . That is my opinion.

I really think people are of the opinion players hold all the cards . To a degree they do , but they do not pick the teams and as such can be "accommodated" or "frozen out" .

Again I would point at Markovic.
Veritas Vos Liberabit - John 8:32
for all those affected by Hillsborough
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John_Boy

Legendary Reds
Jose exiled swein for half a year at least.....
The ring master says the circus show must go on! 🎪
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ThePenkethPedant

Super Reds
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:24 PM
ThePenkethPedant
Feb 7 2018, 11:28 PM
I reckon the only way to keep 'want away' players at a club is to employ gangsters to threaten them and their families with the direst of consequences should they persist in that attitude. Couple of snags: the players are rich enough to buy off the mobsters themselves and pay them in turn to threaten the club's officials, and (2) word would get around and few players would want to join a club with such 'enforcers' lying in wait...
'Bosman ' is the worst thing that has ever happened to our football scene, and the best thing ever for players and agents...
'Bosmans' are a fact of life and need to be managed as such. If they result in a player leaving because he can get a better deal elsewhere, when a contract extension is turned down, when the terms are considered the best that the club can offer based on their valuation of the player, I don't see that the club can do more and still behave responsibly. Paying excessively doesn't look like the answer to me. 'Bosmans' in general can cut both ways. In Can's case, there will be a loss if he leaves. (More on that later). The other side of the coin is that there are opportunities to buy players from other clubs who are also running down their contracts. If there is a challenge to our club's management, perhaps it is in failing to acquire one of those other impending 'Bosmans' such as Goretzka. In the past we have signed a number of players on 'Bosmans', although at the moment I would be hard pushed to remember one who was of pivotal importance during his tenure. Maybe Titi Camara for a short time. Frustrations are understandable when a good player leaves on a 'Bosman', but they don't seem to matter to me as much as some people think. Neither Coutinho nor Suarez were on 'Bosmans', but they prised themselves a way out of their contracts anyway to join the club they desired.
There is a lot of bile being spilled about this situation. Yet it is not yet clear to me that his departure is certain. A lot of supporters are reacting to the recent media stories that 'an agent' has told the media that Can has agreed to sign for Juventus. In the first place, the agent quoted isn't even Can's agent. In the second place, an 'agreement' that has not been signed is no agreement at all. If it is true, why hasn't Juventus done the obvious thing and made an announcement to that effect? There is no reason for them to keep it secret. I'm sure if our club had pulled off a coup of this magnitude they would hold a news conference pretty quickly. I'm not saying that Can will stay with our club, but there does seem to be something lacking in the offers from other clubs, otherwise the deal would already have been done.
Tell me about it.. Oh,yes, you have, thank you,Cam:A tutorial on Bosman - although I was simply making an observation, which I stand by...
Edited by ThePenkethPedant, Feb 8 2018, 09:16 PM.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
ThePenkethPedant
Feb 8 2018, 09:03 PM
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:24 PM
ThePenkethPedant
Feb 7 2018, 11:28 PM
I reckon the only way to keep 'want away' players at a club is to employ gangsters to threaten them and their families with the direst of consequences should they persist in that attitude. Couple of snags: the players are rich enough to buy off the mobsters themselves and pay them in turn to threaten the club's officials, and (2) word would get around and few players would want to join a club with such 'enforcers' lying in wait...
'Bosman ' is the worst thing that has ever happened to our football scene, and the best thing ever for players and agents...
'Bosmans' are a fact of life and need to be managed as such. If they result in a player leaving because he can get a better deal elsewhere, when a contract extension is turned down, when the terms are considered the best that the club can offer based on their valuation of the player, I don't see that the club can do more and still behave responsibly. Paying excessively doesn't look like the answer to me. 'Bosmans' in general can cut both ways. In Can's case, there will be a loss if he leaves. (More on that later). The other side of the coin is that there are opportunities to buy players from other clubs who are also running down their contracts. If there is a challenge to our club's management, perhaps it is in failing to acquire one of those other impending 'Bosmans' such as Goretzka. In the past we have signed a number of players on 'Bosmans', although at the moment I would be hard pushed to remember one who was of pivotal importance during his tenure. Maybe Titi Camara for a short time. Frustrations are understandable when a good player leaves on a 'Bosman', but they don't seem to matter to me as much as some people think. Neither Coutinho nor Suarez were on 'Bosmans', but they prised themselves a way out of their contracts anyway to join the club they desired.
There is a lot of bile being spilled about this situation. Yet it is not yet clear to me that his departure is certain. A lot of supporters are reacting to the recent media stories that 'an agent' has told the media that Can has agreed to sign for Juventus. In the first place, the agent quoted isn't even Can's agent. In the second place, an 'agreement' that has not been signed is no agreement at all. If it is true, why hasn't Juventus done the obvious thing and made an announcement to that effect? There is no reason for them to keep it secret. I'm sure if our club had pulled off a coup of this magnitude they would hold a news conference pretty quickly. I'm not saying that Can will stay with our club, but there does seem to be something lacking in the offers from other clubs, otherwise the deal would already have been done.
Tell me about it.. Oh,yes, you have, thank you,Cam:A tutorial on Bosman - although I was simply making an observation, which I stand by...
Well, you made your feelings very clear on 'Bosmans'. I'm not so wild about them myself, to tell the truth. Mostly when our club is victimised. I'm much more amenable when an opportunity arises to pick up a good player without having to pay a big transfer fee. However, as I pointed out earlier, they are a fact of life and have to be managed. We will get over Can's departure, should he leave, and move on, as with McManaman and Owen. Dealing with the world as it is, rather than as I would like it to be.
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Camelot

Elite Reds
DickWhiteog
Feb 8 2018, 07:55 PM
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 06:31 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 8 2018, 05:31 PM
Camelot
Feb 8 2018, 02:41 PM
BnB
Feb 8 2018, 02:35 PM
cactusjon
Feb 8 2018, 11:51 AM
chalky the red
Feb 8 2018, 11:36 AM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 11:00 PM
Hollywood
Feb 7 2018, 10:32 PM
DickWhiteog
Feb 7 2018, 08:52 PM
So its not a problem to let our players F*ck off for nowt - I have heard it all now.

With the acceptance of such low standards at our football club its no surprise the owners feel they can do whatever they like without
being answerable.

Mind I suppose they are the owners and can basically do anything and tell us to swivel on it.

Football is F*cked.

Please articulate for us all how FSG might have altered the situation outside offering Can a decent contract extension in 2017. Do you have insider knowledge as to the terms of our offer to Can? Does anyone? I thought not.

You are now suggesting that one of Klopps key players is being allowed to leave, with no intervention from the club, so that FSG can what..... save a bit of cash. Really?

Likewise, you would have us believe we just let Phil leave so the club could cash in. Bit of booty to blow on a yacht!

The fact of the matter is the club upped Phils wages, as they did with Suarez, and both players still wanted to fuck off. Just as Can clearly wants to fuck off.

Its not to buy yachts or baseball players. These players just wanted off to the bright lights of Spain. Bit of sun and sand.
It s hard work really - let me try and explain how I see it - A decent set of club managers would protect their investment (I.e Can) . This guy whether you like him or not is worth 20m plus in todays market possibly 50m plus being a German International of young age and plenty of years left on the clock.

Our club should have signed him up well before he was in the position to walk away . The fact they did not means that Can stitched them up. So a thick footballer has run rings around our club management costing them potentially 20-50m pounds .

If anyone sees a positive in this then I am at a loss to discuss it any further . It is a disastrous piece of business which ever way I look at it.

Signing him up for a contract extension and then selling him off would surely have been a far better option.

Its obvious we have been shafted because Klopp was even making him captain in a desperate attempt to get him to stay.

Maybe the club will give him a late offer he cannot refuse and then sell him , just to prove that they are the keen , ruthless businessmen they should be.

Again Hols , if you do not see anything wrong with this situation I am happy for you !! keep smoking whatever it is . :)
Correct me if I'm wrong ,, but wasn't can refusing to sign a contract extension?

Are you suggesting , we should offer can , a contract over and above what the club think he is worth ?
When a player is adamant he is leaving there is little the club can do to avoid criticism. We had three options:

1) - Offer him a contract above what he's worth - "Look at the idiots paying him that, are they mad?"
2) - Sell him with 12 months/6 months to go - "FFS, why are we selling him for that price, he's worth far more than that?"
3) - Let him run out his contract and replace in the summer - "We are run by idiots, why didn't they just pay him what he asked for is it really that hard"?

Personally I think we should just have a rule in the club saying that if a player won't renew the contract with 18 months to go, we get rid. Of course, you'll then have people arguing that the club are just cashing in........
I agree we should have sold him last summer, if he didn't want to go, then tell him to either sign or play in the u23. He would lose his place in the German NT and miss out on going to the WC.
Ah, another breach of the rules. Just another potential action that would be considered punitive, guaranteed to get the club hauled before a tribunal and get the players' association hopping mad and looking for retribution.
Leaving a player out of your side is a simple action for the Manager . He would maybe only have to explain to his bosses why.

How LFC is run in terms of picking a team has nothing whatsoever to do with the PFA or any other outside body , unless they are picking an understrength team , when the FA may get involved.

If a player is not chosen to play that's it - end of , no reason has to be given by the manager , other than maybe saying he is not selected for the team , and its his decision .

Quite simple really and it is done with a degree of regularity - I would Cite Markovic as a fine example this season . QED.
There are various reasons why a player can be dropped, benched, or whatever. But I feel sure that if a player is disciplined for not signing an extension to his contract, not only do I believe it would be against the EFL's own rules, but it would end up in the courts really fast. An employer can't coerce an employee into signing a contract using such means.
You do fear the lawyers Cammy don't you.

I would not expect a Club to be stupid enough to tell a player they were disciplining him for not signing an extension.

Quite simply he would be "dropped" bearing in mind the manager is building a team and as the player is not committing himself to that team then
there can be no problem leaving him out . At which point said player has to find another club , particularly in a WC year .

The fact our club has failed to do something , either get a signature or sell IMHO is an abject failing . That is my opinion.

I really think people are of the opinion players hold all the cards . To a degree they do , but they do not pick the teams and as such can be "accommodated" or "frozen out" .

Again I would point at Markovic.
'You do fear the lawyers Cammy don't you.'

I'm not afraid, particularly, just wary of their way with words, particularly in front of a judge or quasi-judge, e.g. a tribunal.

'I would not expect a Club to be stupid enough to tell a player they were disciplining him for not signing an extension.'

My comment was largely a response to BnB, in which he was proposing exactly that. The fact that it would be largely verbal makes no difference. The situation has elements of a constructed dismissal by an employer. A player gets sidelined whereas he was mostly an automatic selection prior to turning down a proposed contract extension, what conclusion would you draw? What outcome would you expect when the player's lawyer is addressing the judge/tribunal? The timing can't help but be damaging. The fact is, as you have already mentioned, the player holds the cards on 'Bosmans'.



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