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The Reset - I and II
Topic Started: Sep 20 2009, 01:36 AM (924 Views)
Locke
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Administrator
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Hey, guys. I know most of you don't give a flying shit about these things we post, but for those of you that do, this is for you:

As it goes, we find ourselves at a crossroads. TUL hasn't grown in what is going on a year now. And by not grown, I don't mean that it's died; just that we have nothing. No new members, or really good ideas, or staff, or applications, or anything. Most of you will take this as me bitching about the state of the site, but just shut up and read until the end before you decide to make your comments.

When I inherited this site from Feline, I went in knowing that this was an established community with it's own social structure and ideas, but a community that was moving dangerously close to fracturing - so we made amends. As the newest face of the administration, I didn't have the conflicts of interest that most of the other staff had, including disputes with members and other members of staff. As the level of membership dropped, fights increased - members believed staff didn't care and weren't listening, as well as abusing their powers.

So I put an end to it.

Yet, even if most of the combatants are no longer here, I would like to say one thing, without judgment or being critical: You stunted TUL. You damaged it beyond repair, and your little idiot cliques have damaged a website that was far ahead than others in delivering quality roleplaying and discussion - damaged it, as I have found in recent months, to the point where I can no longer single-handedly fix it. This may be as much a statement on me as it is on you, the members and staff, but whatever you choose to do, remember this: You have effectively crippled, if not killed, TUL.

That said, it lives on, in your groups and ideas and roleplays, which is a good thing - more than I can say for many other roleplaying forums who have gone down our same path. It stirs, but the flickers and life of the old community are gone - snuffed out by we who, in essence, failed the original ideals of this site...myself included.

I realize that I am not completely absolved of blame either - my freshman year of college has drawn me away from my duties and responsibilities here at TUL. It's distracted me, and the roleplay I've begun may or may not have withered away by now, taking away a bit of the right I have to say any of this.

Regardless. The life of TUL lies now at a cross-roads, as, ironically and perhaps metaphorically, does my own. As the sole administrator and power of TUL, I ask you, the members and staff, where do we go from here? Make note that, no matter how you chose, it is with no hard feelings - I understand, whichever way we choose to follow.

We can fight for TUL, revive it, work out the kinks, attract new and old members back to the community, and build it back up. We can force life back into TUL, give it a second chance, and really, truly bring back the golden age of our roleplaying world. This, however, takes dedication - if this is the course we take, there is no bullshit, no games played, no slacking off. It takes restructuring, and it takes participation from those of you who use this site as your own personal AIM or MSN.

Or - and, again, with no hard feelings or regrets - we can let TUL go, and complete the cycle. In this case, you're free to keep using the website for roleplays, but the power structure will no longer exist. Staff members will be retired, applications will be closed, and the website will be kept up as long as there are people here to roleplay on it. I myself will resign, a burden lifted off my shoulders, and begin roleplaying with greater ease.

It's a choice that only you can make, and only you can follow. For this, there is no deadline. I'll know simply by the responses to this topic. With genuine love - and regret - for TUL past and present, I ask you to help decide it's future.

Good night, TUL,
- Locke

Hurr, we are helpful links.
My Co-Workers | Message A Locke | Give us a Shout-Out! | Official Rules + Tips and Tricks | The Cafe

[it's just a new day in the old town]
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Styleful Nutter
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As much as I hate to admit it, you have a good point. TUL is a place that I love, and despite how far into the realms of death it gets, I'll probably still check it every day, just to see if there's someone who happened to log on. And it sucks that's it got to the point where we have to actively make this decision. TUL's had a good run, and I've made a lot of friends - and a few enemies, admittedly - here. I'm not prepared to let it go just yet.

If other people are willing to try, so am I.
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Roxas is sooooo amazing. Everyone should adore her. Go! Praise Roxas! 8D


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Axel
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What can be done to revive TUL?
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Locke
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I've been wondering the same thing for half a year now. I tried, twice, to revive it. Once it worked, briefly, the second time, not so well. I'm running out of ideas, and TUL's pretty much run out of time. I can work on it, but this can't just be a staff-fix-everything situation here.

One of the main things is that the c-box is just a new version of the Roleplay Promotions. I can change that with a few new rules. Another thing - one I can't just fix by myself - is the sudden inability of our community to accept new members. They've closed themselves off, literally, to everyone outside.

And Nutter, I feel the same way. I'm not ready to let go of TUL just yet, and let it go on until it just sort of sputters and fades out. I've made my own set of friends and enemies here, and this has been a project that I could really pour a lot into - and get a lot out of.

Hurr, we are helpful links.
My Co-Workers | Message A Locke | Give us a Shout-Out! | Official Rules + Tips and Tricks | The Cafe

[it's just a new day in the old town]
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Axel
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[the day breaks, your mind aches]
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We could start over?
New title (Something as memorable as TUL, just different - new), new website, new members, new role plays, a fresh start.
It may not work, but it might be.. a chance to rework this website. Close this one down and make a whole new one. Get a whole slew of new members and maybe a new colour scheme. Get rid of those things that don't work, downsize what we have and upgrade as needed as new members give their opinions.

And as for the role plays going on now.. maybe just leave those boards, close everything down, like you mentioned, Locke.

And besides.. designing Invisionfree websites are really really fun. It might be cool to go with a side panel that has all the information on it as well, like who the admins are, any new updates and the Cbox.

It's all I've got.
Edited by Axel, Sep 21 2009, 06:08 PM.
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Reaver
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The idea Rocks has is essentially not a bad idea but maybe not so much junk the old site as much as revamp it.

Roxas has got skills with photoshop etc...so maybe she could help with icons...etc...generally make the site more attractive etc..

Aside from a new look, we do need some new blood...we need to do some advertising...and perhaps Locke we should go with that all site roleplay idea you had, perhaps with some award schemes based on actions taken in the roleplay...it'd be a bit of work but it'd have the admins involved which would keep the roleplay running and people involved...

just a few of the ideas I've got....

but the idea behind an all site roleplay is that it removes the clique dynamic....people roleplay with the same people too much..one genre becomes too popular, other roleplayers get bored...leave....

plus there's all that animosity
One side of my eyes see tomorrow,
And the other one see yesterday
I hope I could sleep in the cradle of your love, again

Cry for me, somebody, with dry eyes


I Reavey, am completely owned by Raiiny. And will no longer be critical of spelling errors. I will also loose at any placed bets.

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Scathach
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I can't speak for others, but I have several reasons for my decreasing participation. Some are amenable to change, others may not be.

Yes, the period of infighting and cliques was off-putting, but not enough for me to stay away. The fact that I stayed on the outside of all that helped, but there were times when it managed to bleed over into the IC world as well.

The rash of name-changes that seemed to go along with the infighting hurt my participation more than the actual sniping. I've got a career, marriage, and 3 kids to manage, so I simply do not have the time for keeping track of who used to be whom and what they're called now, especially when the names seem to shift every few months. Yes, I know - when you change your name, you're supposed to put it in your signature. Most didn't, and still don't. Or it's there for all of a week or two.

Part of it, to be frank, is that I found a good PBEM populated by people closer to my own age. Not to sound condescending, but it does make a difference.

The biggest part is frustration. I have become very tired of developing character and negotiating plot; getting myself all excited about the next new thing; banging out a time-consuming, quality intro - only to have it just go *poof!* after a few posts, or pages of posts. Given my limited play-time, I prefer to attend to the other PBEM, where you have a set stable of characters to play through multiple plots over multiple game-years, with individual scenes negotiated and written among small groups of writers. And where, most important of all, your fellow writer(s) will just about always finish these smaller scenes once they're started. I'm not sure how admin activities could change that. It may just be the nature of the general rp board beast.

As to joining new rps, writing with new members - well, that's mostly a function of my interests not meshing with what's on the Promotions board. And I haven't had any spiffy new plot ideas suited for TUL lately, so I haven't advertised anything myself. Nobody to blame there. It is what it is.

That's my two cents, Locke. It would be sad if this ends up being the fourth board we've watched dry up and blow away together, but there it is.
"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes." (MacBeth, IV, 1) %mh%-10570%mh%
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Axel
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[the day breaks, your mind aches]
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The thing with that, Reaver, is that there is all this baggage in the site. With a totally fresh start, new names, post counts at zero.. there's a larger chance of success. Because we've tried revamping. This site is so huge, there are so many little areas to still look at and get into, there are so many members, but if we start anew, we can erase all of that.

I'm still kind of against a large whole-forum based role play, but so long as there is an option for everything else, that'll be okay.

As a sub-admin, there's just so much.. stuff everywhere. It's hard to organize everything. It's hard to figure out what's what sometimes, so if we have a new place, where there are only new posts, nothing old, then there we go, we have this brand new attraction.

And I know what you mean about an intro, a few posts, then nothing, Scathach. But there's not much that can be done, it happens everywhere.
From what I've seen, anyways.

Roxas is heavenly with creating icons. xD
And I love organization and neatness.
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Reaver
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What I mean about revamping is basically removing all the old, including the non-active members, with the total active members now I think there's about 20 at most?

Get rid of ALL the old ones...leave the 20 that still remain.

2) New moderators realising that people have lives and as the school year begins its going to get busier we need someone to help with moderating...well atleast with the whole forum based rp...

the idea was if we have moderators for each scene or story or to monitor all the little bits and parts as a whole as what scatach was talking about.

But...starting a new site from absolute scratch with the exception of a name...that only modifies what I said a little really..so either way we're on the same page....

Just have to get people for a vote on what action should be taken..and nothing half arsed.
One side of my eyes see tomorrow,
And the other one see yesterday
I hope I could sleep in the cradle of your love, again

Cry for me, somebody, with dry eyes


I Reavey, am completely owned by Raiiny. And will no longer be critical of spelling errors. I will also loose at any placed bets.

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Zexion
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I like the idea of a new site...but at the same time, there are some problems with it, too. If we move to a completely new site, there's no way for us to keep old roleplays that we liked and might want to continue save reposting every single post.

Plus, what happens to the roleplays that people are in the middle of when the move is made? It would be confusing whether we finished them out here, or on the new site. Either way, the members who were on here end up having to switch back and forth a lot. I speak from experience; one of my old roleplay sites tried the same thing, and it didn't work very well. There was a lot of confusion and a lot of members were lost, with no new ones that came to fill in the gaps, because the place was too disorganized at the beginning to attract new members.

I'm not saying that it would be impossible to organize such a move, because it's not, and I'm pretty sure you guys would do better at it than the admins on that site.

Something like Reaver suggests might be possible, though I would advocate leaving members who have popped up in the past year, at least. There are a couple hundred spam accounts still at least, I remember seeing them all. Do you know, out of all of the pages of members - that's 101 pages! - only the first three have members who have posted even once?

That's a lot of accounts that could easily be deleted, giving you the low member count you're looking for without deleting anyone who might want to come back without having lost their posts.

And for the history of roleplays, well, is it difficult to archive topics that haven't had replies in more than a year? That would narrow down the number of posts dramatically. Combine that with deleting the 98 pages of members who've never shown up (most of which are spam accounts) and a new scheme, you have a virtually new site that doesn't inconvenience the older members.

Just my two cents. -shrug-
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Formerly Argentate <333
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Axel
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I think a lot of this site just flat-out needs to be reworked, which is what I'm putting on the table. Not a revamp, none of them have worked so far, I don't think another one would work. It's easier to make a new site than clean everything up around here.
A new set up. I'm talking a whole new picture here, not just another revamp. If a new site is worked on, then a mass e-mail can be sent out to existing members, and everyone can choose to go to a brand new website to role play on (Most will check it out just because it would be a new site).

There's still people's post count, and any new members will have "Member number 19392", and, well, it's easier to start fresh. None of that clearing out, deciding what to keep (if anything), and determining where to go from there. Because this site could still be stale after a revamp, I know it would still feel the same to me.


And as for the current role plays, I've moved a few here and there in my time, you don't need to repost anything if you'd wish to move it. Just start a new topic, same name, and keep going. Abandon the old one, take on a new one. Or leave this site open for those people who would still wish to keep playing on that same one, which may cause some difficulties, but is still an option for those few (Because as it's been said, only twenty active members, not many role plays between them, right?) that are still going.
And if the new site isn't opened until it's 100% finished, then there won't be too much other disorganization. And if you really wanted to keep your current role play to look back on, if you click on the 'print this page', you can choose to save it to your computer, and then cancel the print-confirmation button. Then you can just attach the old file to the new thread, and you have your link to it.
Sure, there'll be some confusion if people change their name, or if a new member takes a name of someone that you used to know, but that's to be expected in a move.
Edited by Axel, Sep 21 2009, 07:20 PM.
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Reaver
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Okay say we go with this new site of rping...

What's our buy in...as in what's going to hook in new members, speaking in a business sense of it, cause essentially what you're trying to do is like running a business, profitability is based on how popular the site is, the old one didn't work and now its running into liabilities with people leaving etc.

Okay so you start with a new scheme...are we still sticking with the old ideas and then giving them a spit shine?

'cause I think the old ideas will just run their course and this conversation will come up faster than shotgun wedding in .....that analogy needs work.

Im...kind of liking this whole idea of a forum based rp, with a good hook and an award scheme as in the better you get or more involved you get to be a moderator, you get some fancy signatures...you get better positions in the rp....etc etc...it'd be a lot of work...but it would be a decent idea...and it doesn't have to start with the new site...we could advertise it...work on it and then launch it off at a later date...

using the other rp boards to drag in new members, let them have their introductions etc so that when the new rp actually kicks off people are already familiar with each other some what, you've weeded out the wankers who don't really stick around to the ones who are interested...and hey you might have something that works....

my last two cents I swear.
One side of my eyes see tomorrow,
And the other one see yesterday
I hope I could sleep in the cradle of your love, again

Cry for me, somebody, with dry eyes


I Reavey, am completely owned by Raiiny. And will no longer be critical of spelling errors. I will also loose at any placed bets.

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Hilarious Consequence
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I uh... um.
I've been here for two years. Well, nearly two years. I'm not so good with time. And... I don't really remember much of the drama, even though I know that some of it was directed at me. All I can remember is the friends and the laughing and the amazing writing.

TUL is genuine, and... I'd be sad to see all my old roleplays gone. Sure, I could save them all to my harddrive. I might do just that. But the context is gone. If TUL goes under, and I lose my memories of these people, just other people, real people communicating with me, trying to reach through the screens... I don't want to remember TUL just as a roleplay board, or just as a bunch of pixels on a screen, vague and fuzzy.

I suppose... that new members, a new board, new... everything, would be nice, but the nostalgia would be overwhelming. Perhaps... we could go with Rocks With Holes' suggestion and completely scrap the site. Start over.

I could advertise, on other boards and websites. I could... recruit real-world friends to help. I would have no problem devoting myself to being a moderator, a staff member. I have that time and dedication.

But if we did completely start over, I would be so... sad. I mean, it'll be impossible to recapture the beautiful.... flow, here. But we could make a new one. It'll be... I guess it'll be the Roman Empire to our Greece. But it'll be good.

Maybe.

....Forgive me for not making any sense. My thoughts are all a meaningless jumble in my head.
Edited by Hilarious Consequence, Sep 21 2009, 07:45 PM.
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hells yeeeees
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Walking Softly
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Keep in mind that two cents, for me, tends to turn into a dollar... I'm likely to do this freestyle.

Several years ago, back when Shadowed and I and another member were the closest of close friends, I got told "Look! There's a cool roleplaying site you should join." Not thinking much of it, I tried to shrug it off, but Shadowed hounded me until I actually looked. I was amazed by the sheer organization of it all, the idea of applying instead of just joining, of having to be good enough. I remember thinking briefly that I was applying only with the character I used in the application, and that I was only supposed to use him site-wide. My creativity and writing skills were going under the microscope - oh gods! What if they don't like me? What if my style is stale? I was paralysed with tension for two solid days until my application was accepted - and all of a sudden I was in.

Like the gates to an exotic, golden city had suddenly been opened to me, I slowly started to explore, eyes wide with wonder. There were games, there were so many members! There were roleplay forums galore - it was a mental candy shop. Being very shy back then, I stayed low and snuck very quickly into an X-Men roleplay - the second-most successful roleplay I've yet been in on any site. I didn't discover the option to introduce myself as a new member until I'd already been on the site for at least six months - nobody's fault but mine; I was that shy.

The Out-of-Character forum had interesting discussions, cool quizzes, and other things I can't even remember. I read through pages and pages of games at three in the morning, laughing hysterically and having my grumpy parents make me turn off my computer. I got immersed in that X-Men roleplay.

I watched that roleplay as it grew in depth and interest, then slowly splintered during the large conversations and lost focus. We kicked it along as first one, then another member dropped out, managed to move it a huge shift in scene - and saw it completely peter out during a complicated fight scene. It simply took too much to keep everyone and everything going. I remember I used to save every post faithfully in a Wordpad file, giving everyone different colours to keep them straight. When that roleplay died, it was like losing a relative.

I've gotten very cynical, very gradually, since then. I've done a complete shift in thinking. I no longer actually care whether a roleplay lasts for ages and pages, whether it disappears after five posts, or whether it never makes it off the Promotion Board. Delusional or not, I believe by this point that no roleplay in which I participate will ever survive beyond one major scene, perhaps unless it's a one on one, because they never do. I just now posted a roleplay idea purely with the hope that other people can make better use of it, since the last roleplay I tried starting probably only wrecked my credibility on here.

I'm an assistant teacher on this site, theoretically. The head teacher has been in real-life complications for longer than I can remember. We worked out a great plan, and then she disappeared. I haven't heard from her in months. I was extremely fired with her ideas to make this incarnation of TULU the best yet, and then slowly realized that it was going to go down just like every other try.

To be honest, I never saw the in-fighting. Maybe I didn't see those threads. I know I only started paying attention to the C-Box when someone pointed it out. All I knew was that gradually, people I knew and loved were no longer posting anything that interested me; since roleplaying is a hobby for me, not a career, I started checking more sporadically. There was nothing new to see, and what I tried posting only generated temporary interest.

This is the most active I've been on here in several months. When I saw the Reversal board, I was extremely interested, and figured that if it got moving, I'd make a detailed character and try it out. I've been checking the site almost every single day since then, hopefully. Other than that, I use the Let It All Out, and check the lounge for any news. That's it.

At least a year ago, Shadowed and I, during that period when everyone was yelling about falling standards in application acceptances, tried making a spinoff forum with the same ideals and basic structure, and attracting the people we thought would be interested. Stupid idea, I know now, not to mention going against the rules of the site and causing more dissension when we already had enough. We only got about twelve members before it breathed its last. The only long-term effect was that we gained a real-life friend out of it. We thought we had a solution, but we definitely didn't. Please don't be annoyed; it's water long under the bridge.

This site has a lot of memories. A lot. I remember yakking at my mom for an hour about what was going on on here. These days my life is a lot different. I would be extremely sad to see this site go, but I have no strong arguments against it besides that I don't really want yet another years-old institution of my life to disappear entirely. If a new site were made, I'd probably just collect an email address or two and delete my bookmark of TUL. I am not a leader-sort, I am a supporter, and I don't have the dedication it would take to help shape a new place. All the good will in the world, I've learned, doesn't make things actually happen - only actions.

Over the years, I've maybe actually communicated with fifty people. For me, that's a ton. This site, and the person who was once Ashes, inadvertently helped me come out as transgendered, and I'll never forget that blessing. I've had laughs and tears out of this site, all because it's brought me closer to distant people than anything else on the Internet. The weirdest conversations have come up, and caused great hilarity or some hard feelings - what can you do? People are people, and the applications don't include a personality test to make sure we'll all get along perfectly.

I'd like to think that I'm an active, caring member, but by the criterion of doing anything specific to keep TUL alive, I can't take that title. If people would like me to try running at least a small version of TULU, I'd be perfectly happy to - but more than one person would need to express long-term interest.

My only request is that this website stay available for as long as possible, active or not. One very determined person, Lost in a Melody, was permanently grounded at the age of fourteen from all forms of the Internet by which she could communicate with us. She still has one or two years to go before she turns eighteen and will be able to get back on. TUL will be the only way to reconnect with the people - including me - that she knew on here, since her parents even deleted her email address and contacts once they found out she was (crime of all crimes) talking to people. If the site disappears, and nothing under "TUL" or "The United Literates" can show up on Google, the chain of contact will be lost. I know she's only one person, but...

Just a comment: I really enjoyed the number of 'battles' I entered while that section of the site was going strong. I know I rarely wrote anything in the style of an actual roleplay post, but I seriously loved the chance to express other writing styles on this site in such a way that I'd get some low-key feedback. Kudos to the creator.
Posted Image<--- Silvarsh Posted Image <---Xoot Posted Image<---Aewyn. She finally gave me an egg - maybe she's bi?

Posted Image <-- I swear, I didn't hatch this one. o.o?

Status: Swamped permanently, due to being over the age of ten...
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Shadowed in Darkness
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Okay, I haven't gotten a chance to read everything here, but I just wanted to say that I would be willing to help out anywhere where I could be useful. There will never be another place quite like TUL and I think that it's our duty to try and bring it back- all of us, out of our love for it. It is a unique and special place and if we step away and give up too soon, we may never have anything like it again.

Right now I have lots of spare time for the first time in a while. I've wanted to get back into roleplaying, to have fun with the part of my life I spend on the computer. Instead this has resulted in what can only be long, boring, pointless hours on the computer, hoping someone will roleplay with me. Still I stay on- I come back almost every day. What can I say? I enjoy writing and using my imagination. I could write stories by myself, and I probably will some day, but that requires a good idea. I like the idea of working together to create a better story. It's easier and more fun. Sometimes it amazes me what people can come up with when bouncing ideas off the other person/people.

So. Spare time. As I was saying I have a lot of spare time on my hands. I am taking a year off before I go to university and I haven't found a job yet, and while I've found lots of things to spend my time doing and I have a boy to spend time with every day, I have lots of time to help with TUL. To be honest, I've always wanted to apply to help staff TUL. Unfortunately I never had the time before and I was too nervous about being rejected to apply. I would love to help with teaching, advertising, graphics...anything really. Please, just let me know what I can do. I just want to roleplay again.

-Phina
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