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| Ring ring? Is anybody home?; Game Discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 6 2014, 12:27 AM (3,952 Views) | |
| Chad | Feb 11 2014, 01:16 AM Post #136 |
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Spoiler: I was one of the votes that sent you packing that night, bitch. Get a load of that. |
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| Constance | Feb 11 2014, 01:17 AM Post #137 |
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Then my sentiment stands even more firmly. Hmph. |
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| Kyle | Feb 11 2014, 01:18 AM Post #138 |
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Now that is very shocking twist indeed. |
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| Chad | Feb 11 2014, 01:38 PM Post #139 |
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![]() You welcome, whore. So let's all be responsible jurors and discuss the final three, shall we? We shall. I disagree with Kyle when he says pre-merge is irrelevant because we didn't play with certain people. That was 1/2 of the game, and absolutely pivotal to the dynamics that would follow. We can't just look at their merge game and base it off of that. And really, how do you know none of us were on a tribe with them, Kyle? Spooky. I know. So yes, those two weeks should be taken into consideration when we look at all three players. Now, I have already said my peace about Ben on Murder House and I don't think Tate or Moira would disagree much, but feel free to you two. If Myrtle, Kyle and Cordy want to enlighten us about Delphine and Fiona's Coven gameplay, have at it. Let's chat. All three of them were on Pride, so let me say my peace here. And again, Constance, Jude and Cordy can chime in because they were there. Ben and LaLaurie were always going to go for immunity because they wanted to protect their idols. Throughout that day, several plans were talked about. One was everyone voting out Pepper. One was the women trying to trick me into going for voting rights and than vote me out. One was voting for Constance. One Constance and I discussed was she would go for immunity, and I'd use my round skipper, which would have had Jude and Fiona dueling in a tiebreaker. Fiona was obviously involved in all of those discussions as she was always going for voting rights, so she was part of that strategy. Delphine, who was also going for immunity, was also involved in all of those discussions even though she would not have been part of the vote. That's the difference between her and Ben. Ben was not part of any of those discussions and therefore had no say in what went on. And the very first night we had new teams and we were all being social with one another, he told me he was going to bed because he didn't know where to start. He whined about no one PMing him, and had a little tantrum. Fine, go to fucking bed while the rest of us socialize and get to know one another. No one on Pride, save Cordy, gave a shit about Ben. Pepper, who was the most inoffensive person on that team, didn't even like Ben. I heard so many times "Chad, I know you and Ben are close, but we have no use for him." He was in sleeper mode yet again and not involved in anything that went on there. Had Pride lost that team challenge, again, he wouldn't know what the fuck was going on because he wasn't involved in any of those discussions. So let's get to the merge. Everyone's goal here was to keep people in this game that were close allies to them. Tate set up a masterful end game. We had a final four of himself, Kyle, LaLaurie and I. That was beneficial to him, because all three of us had unwavering loyalty to him. Kyle wanted to keep Coven members in because they had his back. Again, he did a damn good job. Delphine, same thing. She was actively getting people who would be most loyal to her in the end-game. Everyone was trying to do that. I certainly was as well. I just failed at the end of the day. I worked with Fiona for part of this merge and she was always trying to get her allies further. Fiona put all of her trust in her Coven, and when she found out they were not being truthful to her, she sought out other opportunities. With Ben, what did he do? Like the Angel said, please someone. Tell us. Ben completely blew off the merge. How many of us commented about not hearing from him for a really long time? It's not because he was busy in real life, like Cordy or Moira or the Monsignor. We all saw him online and yet we got nothing. Ben told me he didn't want to vote Moira out because he trusted her. So did he fight to keep her? No. He gave her a vote and let her die anyway. Everyone else was actively trying to save their allies. Look what members of the Coven did for Cordelia. I was also doing the same by trying to get Cordy into that arena so my allies would have a better shot at surviving. All of us were actively doing things to help our game, including both of those women. When it got down to the final 7, Ben went around to every single person (save me) and was targeting different people. He threw out several names to different people like we wouldn't compare notes. That's not gameplay. It's desperation. And when we did compare notes, he threw more tantrums like attacking Fiona for "throwing him under the bus." Again, moves were made in spite of Ben whereas Fiona and LaLaurie were both proactive in making sure things went their way if they could help it. Had Ben not been immune for the greater part of this merge, he was out of this game. Now you can point to last night and say "Well, he wasn't immune and they kept him" but again, did he have any part of that? Tell us, Tate. Everyone knows he's a goat. Everything we've talked about here had likely filtered back into the game so that's why shit like that was probably done. And I know you think this is Ben-bashing Moira, and I'm sorry if it comes off that way, but I feel strongly about this game, this theme and I don't want someone winning this game who blew it off. It's not fair to any of us and to all of those people who left pre-jury who would have loved to be here. Believe me, I wish I could be like some people here who just don't give a shit at this point and will throw a dart at the board, but because I care, I'm going to keep at it. If any of you who poured blood, sweat and tears into this can honestly tell me you'd respect giving this game to someone who didn't give a shit, then please, have at it. I might be an asshole, but I don't bite. |
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| Myrtle | Feb 11 2014, 04:08 PM Post #140 |
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I don't disagree that Fiona and Delphine played stronger games than Ben, because as Shachath says, he was immune the majority of the time. But one thing I fail to understand is why going for immunity in a format with minimal people vulnerable to be voted for when they are a noted challenge threat WITH an idol, is viewed as a poor decision. Did Delphine not do the exact same thing on the Coven and on Pride as well? It would be blatantly hypocritical because from the Coven perspective, Delphine was always going for immunity because of her idol, and I presume the same was said for Ben. Why wouldn't they? As far as his implications during the game, during that Arena phase, he was instrumental in getting some of the two big moves that Kyle pulled off, but that is more of a credit to Kyle than to Ben, having been involved in those moves myself with the two of them. |
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| Chad | Feb 11 2014, 04:26 PM Post #141 |
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I never said it was a poor decision. In fact, we encouraged Ben to play for immunity during that to protect his idol (which he was going to do regardless). I told Delphine the same thing on Pride, although Delphine did tell me she would play for votes if I needed her too, but I didn't. But that doesn't mean they had to sit on the sidelines and not be involved in the decision of who would leave the game. On Pride, Delphine was involved in those strategic decisions that led to someone going home. |
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| Shachath | Feb 11 2014, 04:29 PM Post #142 |
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No one is saying that going for immunities in the Colo format were poor decisions, Myrtle. I don't think anyone was even eluding to that? I don't think that's Chad's point. On Sloth, that wasn't an option for me, voting rights I mean. I had to play for immunity or lose my idol. So I of all people can understand why Madame LaLaurie and Ben would and I agree with you that it shouldn't be knocked. I won immunity that first Round, and then after my throw I was just going to throw the voting/immunity challenge anyway. Because I did not want to screw anyone over since I had an idol. And I didn't want to be anymore selfish that night. I still think I should have played for voting rights, but then we wouldn't have had that great Moira/Myrtle showdown. That really was fun to watch. The immunities in that format weren't actually won a lot by the people who needed them in most cases though, I will say that. At Briarcliff, all but one of those Colo rounds immunity wins and structures ended up in a way it shouldn't have gone. I spoke about how our targets won them and we were faced with voting off Arthur. It took planning to get that done, that wasn't just a fluke that my alliance won the particular challenges they did. Having voting rights gave you more power, yes. You were the true decision maker, which is why I always put myself and Pepper up for that role when we could. Even when I was supposed to play for immunity, I still did voting rights at the Asylum because it was control of what happened. But again, my biggest stress here is that I actually agree with you, Myrtle. I think the people who played for voting rights when they did, did it as a valid strategy. And those who played for immunities did that as well. It's the course you took to get through the round, in either aspect of that format and it shouldn't be used against anyone. |
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| Myrtle | Feb 11 2014, 04:34 PM Post #143 |
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That's what I needed to know, darling, because without knowing all information it just looked hypocritical. We advised her to play for immunity on the Coven as well, because Fiona was, and always has been, an opportunistic bitch. She would have taken her own daughter out to eliminate a threat to herself, even if Delia was loyal to her. And I do respect that sort of gameplay - part of me would be undecided if they ended up together, because a strong case will be made for either of them. Having played with Fiona and Delphine, though, I would think Delphine played a better game. She's never once been a target, never needed immunity to survive, as well as has yet to receive a vote cast against her. She might have played a more low-key sort of social game, but she mastered it. Does anyone here have any real negative feelings against her? Except the homosexuals and blacks, of course? I think that's the sign of a masterful game, and I would gladly vote for her to win. Fiona, on the other hand, seemed to be more of a HBIC-driven force. But from what Kyle and I always discussed, the people truly running that tribe...were Delphine and Kyle, and everyone was content to let Fiona believe that she was running things, because she needed to feel in control. I do think that Fiona did have a major hand in the strategic side of this game, and she didn't mince words with anyone. You always knew where Fiona stood, and she never faltered or wavered from that fact, and that, my dears, is respectable. Even if she is a jealous, hateful bitch. Ben...has won a lot of immunities, and there's been very little opportunity to get rid of him, except the last two rounds. Where people either saw the use in him and he helped himself survive, or people just assume correctly that he's a goat and want to take him to the end. I do appreciate people who fight to the end like that, but I also don't know what he could say to prove he played a better game than either of those two ladies, who have been dominant in their own retrospect. Delphine was the social goddess, Fiona the strategic powerhouse, and Ben was the challenge-whore. And even then, he still lost to Fiona twice last night. The woman who we all thought would never win a challenge. |
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| Chad | Feb 11 2014, 04:35 PM Post #144 |
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An angel agreeing with me is the day hell freezes over. And Myrtle, if you're even agreeing that Ben doesn't deserve to win, well shit. There you go, folks. |
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| Myrtle | Feb 11 2014, 04:41 PM Post #145 |
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That Council What a delight that was. If you had joined in, that would have probably gone on longer, because even though we had discussed Mary Eunice's treachery, I was never 100% solidified on you, even though I felt as if we had a rather strong connection on Sloth from whenever either of spoke to the other. Which was infrequent once you threw that challenge - stating that all your allies were on Pride. That's what made me hesitant to trust you, darling.But thank you - I feel as if claiming someone was irrelevant because they went for immunity is unfair, because it's how the format is played out. But there is a difference between being immune and being uninvolved. I will be very curious to see his defense to that. And Chad, I'm going to give him a chance. But against my two Coven ladies? He's bewitched, bothered and bewildered. |
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| Tate | Feb 11 2014, 05:29 PM Post #146 |
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I will chime in a bit here. I am afraid to speak too much because of what you all think about me but whatever. I don't think Ben should win. Chad covered that much longer and more passionately than I ever could. He never really did anything except win immunities. Even up through the final 5, he would have been out in that double if he didn't win immunity. Only then was he finally used. And even then, he came close to leaving. But I had to try and stir up and break up the Coven if I could. We all knew Kyle was a big jury threat too so that went into that. I just don't really see a lot of great points for Ben. I never hated him like Chad did actually. I hated him circumstantially that I could never get rid of him when I was closer with other people and needed him out of the picture. But he always trusted me and ran shit back to me so I can't hate him on that level. I don't even fucking know what happened between you two. Lalaurie has done really well I think. I have a decent idea of her game from playing closely with her and Kyle after the merge. Kyle I think can back this up but her and Kyle were really pulling the strings on Coven all along. She did really well to get all the people she was closest with in the merge to the end. And like Myrtle said she was never a target at any point. I don't know about Coven or Pride and how she would have been on the councils there if she didn't go for immunity, but after the merge I never heard a lick about targeting her at any point. And maybe there is a reason for that, but despite that she never got a vote. Even when she was getting shit for being the same player as me, that is something people were fixated on during that double night. She was still never a target. It was always going to be on me before it was ever going to be on her. Kyle and Fiona were not voting her under any circumstance regardless of the rumors, and she set it up well for me to take the fall for that. Fiona has done well too. She is a great social player. I was always closer with Kyle and Lalaurie than her but we had a good bond through our mutual friends. Speaking from me personally, when it was getting down to the wire she was the one that was going to be the target, not Lalaurie. Also Fiona was closer with Jude and Chad, but she ended up defaulting and going with Lalaurie's allies. I was going to say Constance but I was working with Constance too and didn't want her out at all. I will give her credit for a few things, the main thing being her stealing Chad from me. I never even saw it coming either but before I knew it he was after me and wanting to save her and I was freaked. I was lucky I had Kyle and Lalaurie and Ben on my side for that, but it was something she owned me on. Also I think she just naturally has a social game that makes her likeable and commands respect. I think someone like her would always be a jury favorite because of that. I do think her game appears to be bigger than it actually was though. Also on a personal note I am irritated as fuck that she is asking Ben to quit now for the integrity of the game when she could have booted him last night. :rolleyes: |
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| Kyle | Feb 11 2014, 05:38 PM Post #147 |
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Kyle wish he felt passionate enough to discuss Miss Fiona and Madame at length because Kyle believe he has a lot of insight to both of their game. But Kyle is currently not in the mood. Kyle actually doubt very much them two together is the final two we are getting, so Kyle does not want to waste his breath. If the final two does end up being the two of them, Kyle will raise some discussion then.
Truer words have never been spoken, clone brother. |
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| Shachath | Feb 11 2014, 05:47 PM Post #148 |
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That's a big of a reach though about Fiona's exchanges with Ben, isn't it? All I see is someone who wants to go to the end with her closest ally, she's said as much in detail. I didn't see anything said about the game's integrity. But nice way to twist it, I guess? |
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| Myrtle | Feb 11 2014, 05:52 PM Post #149 |
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I think it speaks for itself why people see different things with it, darling. I don't see it as twisting the integrity, but I can understand the frustration behind it from Tate's perspective, seeing as she is the sole reason that he left? |
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| Tate | Feb 11 2014, 05:53 PM Post #150 |
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Sorry if I got integrity out of this. So twisted. If she is this bothered by Ben making the end she should have kept me. |
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What a delight that was. If you had joined in, that would have probably gone on longer, because even though we had discussed Mary Eunice's treachery, I was never 100% solidified on you, even though I felt as if we had a rather strong connection on Sloth from whenever either of spoke to the other. Which was infrequent once you threw that challenge - stating that all your allies were on Pride. That's what made me hesitant to trust you, darling.
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7:57 PM Jul 10