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The Last Game
Topic Started: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:06 am (1,367,905 Views)
Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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Last
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Sanada
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Resolute Warrior

Last. :beard:
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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:spam:
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Zhou Yin
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Sanada
Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:50 pm
Well, when people say RTS they don't actually mean that sort of game. That comes under the Gran Strategy genre or something like that.

RTS tends to be stuff like Command and Conquer, Warcraft, Starcraft, where in the battle you build up your base and your troop count, no preplanning normally, just all in itself.
I used to love that sort of RTS, but I've gone off them as I discovered the ones closer to what you're talking about.

Elements of what you were saying are applicable to both ROTK and Total War though :P
The troop limit in particular fits ROTK, in VIII you start with 8000 limit and could get up to 18500 or 20000, but that made a MASSIVE difference.

One thing about Total War if you do try it is, it's at a much smaller scale within the battles themselves. A couple of thousand troops is a very large army, most units ranging from 10-100 depending on their type (elite units number less, and mounted less than footmen or such)
You are expected to command the units personally when in the 'action phase' for it though. It's kind of a mix of turn based and real time, you have turn based overall progression, but within battles it's all real time and I love tactically playing those battles, having my infantry rush their line with archer support while I get my cavalry flanking round behind causing them to scatter~
Yea, I saw a few videos of Total War, and I'd like to get that one day. It's just my whole fear of not having a good enough laptop, lol.

I like the ones like Nobunaga, where I have to gather resources, build an army, expand, conquer, and what not. I loved, especially, how on NA, you could essentially win if you could (somehow) get everyone into an alliance with you at once. And asking people to surrender when they have nobody left, and being rejected... UGH. Just the whole feel of bringing down the biggest and baddest army in Japan was just TOO Boss. I prefer this gameplay to Total War, unless Total War has all of this in itself... I mean, the grand scale... Having to forsee needing reinforcements, and getting them to the battlefield in time before your forces get wiped out... That was fun.

Plus, flanking the enemy and boxing them in made it impossible for them to retreat/escape. Helped with capturing.... Ugghh.. I wish they'd put Iron Triangle on PS3 already...
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Sanada
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Resolute Warrior

Total War doesn't have all of that, as it's split into a strategy phase and a battle phase, while in the battle phase you can't manipulate units outside that battle. Before you initiate the battle you can have reinforcements set up and such, but it is a shame you can't have more dynamic parts to it like that.

I mean the idea of just trying to hold out in a battle, while trying to get reinforcements from a couple of provinces over seems like it'd be amazing.

But outside of that, most of the stuff is there for it. And if you have your reinforcements already assigned to enter the battle it can work out like that. Total War games main aspect is how good the battles are though I think. You can tactically control every single unit and properly see them and such (which is why the smaller scale I mentioned)
Plus each unit has a commander which is given a name, they rank up as they get experience and such. Gives a personal aspect to it, as well as a feel of progression with the army itself.

Shogun Total War is actually why I chose the name Sanada, because the Takeda had hundreds of Sanada generals.
Edited by Sanada, Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:48 pm.
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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:ot:

Last
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Sanada
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Is that really such a bad thing?

When I joined this topic there was no such thing as being On Topic, as being last was just the goal, not the topic being stated :whistle:
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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Whatever

Last
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Sanada
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Resolute Warrior

Whatever you say, pal.
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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Grr :beard:
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Sanada
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Resolute Warrior

Grah
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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Hm.. :hmph:
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Sanada
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Resolute Warrior

hmm.... Posted Image
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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:mellow:
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Sanada
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:mellow:
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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:mellow:
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Sanada
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Resolute Warrior

:uh:
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Zhou Yin
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Sanada
Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Total War doesn't have all of that, as it's split into a strategy phase and a battle phase, while in the battle phase you can't manipulate units outside that battle. Before you initiate the battle you can have reinforcements set up and such, but it is a shame you can't have more dynamic parts to it like that.

I mean the idea of just trying to hold out in a battle, while trying to get reinforcements from a couple of provinces over seems like it'd be amazing.

But outside of that, most of the stuff is there for it. And if you have your reinforcements already assigned to enter the battle it can work out like that. Total War games main aspect is how good the battles are though I think. You can tactically control every single unit and properly see them and such (which is why the smaller scale I mentioned)
Plus each unit has a commander which is given a name, they rank up as they get experience and such. Gives a personal aspect to it, as well as a feel of progression with the army itself.

Shogun Total War is actually why I chose the name Sanada, because the Takeda had hundreds of Sanada generals.
Ohh, lol.

Troops are very important in NA. As are officers. You can't do anything without first assigning an officer to oversee it, moving troops accounted. I remember this one time, when I had basically taken up most of the middle, and was just mopping up the east coast. I'd foolishly moved the majority of my troops to the eastern front, trying to overwhelm them by sheer numbers alone. Bastards on the west decided to use the opportunity to strike at my rear flank. Imagine expanding SO MUCH FOOD into a war effort, under the assumption that you'd quickly replenish it all with the extra land to be gained, and then having to pull back all of your forces in order to protect your capital city... Yea. lol.

That's why I like this, though. It keeps you on your toes. You can't ever focus entirely on the war effort, without first making sure that you are safe to do so. And even then, you have to be smart about who you take, and leave behind. Bring all your best generals to the fight, while the weak ones defend? Better hope the enemy doesn't send out a strong force.

It's very epic like that, though. The mix of diplomacy, as well as battle, and the sheer amount of options to approach for each, it makes you really feel like a Daimyo yourself.
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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Sanada
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You're selling me on this game, I've got to tell you :XD

It's like it takes aspects of history I like, aspects of Total War I love and some aspects of ROTK I enjoyed, throws them together in one package and seems like it does so well.

That is one rather disappointing thing with Total War actually. Resource management. You have some basic stuff, but it all just goes towards your money. You have to account for your generals and troops salaries, but food isn't much of an issue.
Well it kind of was in the original Shogun, and maybe Shogun 2, I forget. But not of too much strategic importance.

Some of what you're talking about sounds exactly like stuff I've experienced in Total War though :XD
Just with the added complication of your food :P
(Which is an issue I am too familiar with thanks to ROTK)

The troops, the generals, that sort of stuff is there. And of course enemies taking advantage of you mobilising an offensive.

Like I say though, the Total War games are great, but they do focus more on the actual battles than the war itself, a lot of aspects to the war part, but not as much as NA it seems.
Might have some more in other areas mind you, using Ninjas or Assassin's to attempt to kill their top generals, having agents convert the religion of the populace in an area to make them rebel, just sending agents in to cause general unrest to cause them to rebel, stuff like that.
Edited by Sanada, Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:09 pm.
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Ultimate Dragon
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The true warrior should take the battle like a man no retreat, no surrender.
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Zhou Yin
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Sanada
Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:07 pm
You're selling me on this game, I've got to tell you :XD

It's like it takes aspects of history I like, aspects of Total War I love and some aspects of ROTK I enjoyed, throws them together in one package and seems like it does so well.

That is one rather disappointing thing with Total War actually. Resource management. You have some basic stuff, but it all just goes towards your money. You have to account for your generals and troops salaries, but food isn't much of an issue.
Well it kind of was in the original Shogun, and maybe Shogun 2, I forget. But not of too much strategic importance.

Some of what you're talking about sounds exactly like stuff I've experienced in Total War though :XD
Just with the added complication of your food :P
(Which is an issue I am too familiar with thanks to ROTK)

The troops, the generals, that sort of stuff is there. And of course enemies taking advantage of you mobilising an offensive.

Like I say though, the Total War games are great, but they do focus more on the actual battles than the war itself, a lot of aspects to the war part, but not as much as NA it seems.
Might have some more in other areas mind you, using Ninjas or Assassin's to attempt to kill their top generals, having agents convert the religion of the populace in an area to make them rebel, just sending agents in to cause general unrest to cause them to rebel, stuff like that.
I think we can start a rebellion... Well, those have mostly to do with morale.

I don't recall assassinations, though. Never used them. i tried to be honorable, haha. I created a Zhou Yu/Zhou Yin and put them under Oda's forces. Let Zhou Yu take control of the clan after a while. You can make a Daimyo step down and announce a successor, something else Empires doesn't have. I liked that part... And you could also cut on historical events, so, if things lined up, you could get these little events/cutscenes where they show actual things from history happening.

I know you can try and get someone to defect, though, although never in mid battle. Mostly just send them a letter or something, to see if they would join you.

This game is awesome, if you have a lot of time on your hands. Honestly, you'd get Empires before this, because it is just such a time commitment. Iron Triangle had 6 different scenarios, and it takes about 3-4 hours until you're actually strong enough to fight your first battle. Wars, in and of themselves, are long affairs, depending on your enemy and how much territory he has. And the difficulty in simply winning is also there. I rarely ran into a time when I had a huge numbers advantage until I'd already finished about 60% of the map, and even then, I'd hope that everyone was too busy fighting each other.

Alliances are a must here, also. There is simply not enough security in your troops, like the one you have from a neighbor who can't attack you. You can even ask your allies to attack a specific place... I'm trying to remember, because I believe there was a drawback to this. You agreed on a specific time to attack, sort of, but it was never specific enough. So you'd be in the middle of preparations, and notice that your ally had already mobolized an army to go attack a castle, and you would have to play catch up just in case he actually won the battle on is own and took it from you, lol.

Fame concepts are in this game, also, kinda like Empires. Only this time, it is mostly how people view you. If you execute people, break alliances before the agreed limit, etc. it would become negative, and people would start denying to trade with you, or ally with you, and some would become outright hostile...

If you're not careful, you'd regret playing brash and loose, haha. I've gotten my butt kicked quite a few times, from an unforeseen attack by an unexpected foe.

And I usually started in the scenario where the daimyo's are uniting against Oda, and I was playing his force already, so... yea... haha
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Sanada
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Oh, I understand that. Both ROTK and Total War games are complete Time Sinks, just waste an entire day playing them without even realising, and I'm sure it'd be no different :XD

But I might get it before Empires if I'm waiting til after my Uni's done anyway, since it seems like the sort of stuff I enjoy :P
And DW7 feels so empty I doubt Empires will make it much better.
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Zhou Yin
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lol. True. I kinda hesitated when buying Empires, haha. Realized it was 50 bucks, and so was a bunch of other good games... Meh.

lol. Forgot I was supposed to create the Heat on Empires... Meh. I'll do it after work.
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Paulinos
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Am I charming?
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LAST!
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