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Locked Topic
Zhou Yu; no chance against Zhuge Liang
Topic Started: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:06 pm (3,724 Views)
Wenze
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Omniscient Strategist
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Well, as an actual in battle commander, Zhou Yu does beat Zhuge, IMO. Now in a campaign where each would have given orders to the generals, Zhuge would come out on top. And Zhuge and Zhou Yu had barely any interaction in history at all, unlike in the novel.
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Mr.Cookie
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Keep lining 'em up and I'll keep knocking 'em down!
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Zhou yu is a better strategists.Zhou yu died so early....A Bad End
:(
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Drewge
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Officer
[ *  * ]
ZhouTai50
Jan 17 2008, 01:52 AM
Well, as an actual in battle commander, Zhou Yu does beat Zhuge, IMO. Now in a campaign where each would have given orders to the generals, Zhuge would come out on top. And Zhuge and Zhou Yu had barely any interaction in history at all, unlike in the novel.

agreed, as well it would all come down to what generals they had at their disposal... zhuge is better at being organized and using completly unpredictable strategies... where as zhou yu is a better commander than person that gives orders, and ya as for generals at disposal... Zhuge has alot more good generals that are good leaders, where as in Wu zhou yu wasnt so lucky... he might have had taishi ci and huang gai... but after that none of the generals were really that good....
cause if you look at it the way i do... Wu had alot of friends and family as generals and didnt reallly go out looking for talent...(they get not so many good warriors but they had intelligent advisors)
Wei always went for talent before everything...(had more than shu because of the amout of land they had)
Shu just hired anyone who wanted to fight (gaining them a wider variety of generals some good strategists and others great warriors)

Zhuge did good to get on zhou yu's nerves cause really zhou yu was the only advisor that thinked like him.. and that was a threat, so if you put it in the long run... zhuge was helping out liu bei by taking the life of Wu's greatest strategist.
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Drewge
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Officer
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ZhouTai50
Jan 17 2008, 01:52 AM
Well, as an actual in battle commander, Zhou Yu does beat Zhuge, IMO. Now in a campaign where each would have given orders to the generals, Zhuge would come out on top. And Zhuge and Zhou Yu had barely any interaction in history at all, unlike in the novel.

agreed, as well it would all come down to what generals they had at their disposal... zhuge is better at being organized and using completly unpredictable strategies... where as zhou yu is a better commander than person that gives orders, and ya as for generals at disposal... Zhuge has alot more good generals that are good leaders, where as in Wu zhou yu wasnt so lucky... he might have had taishi ci and huang gai... but after that none of the generals were really that good....
cause if you look at it the way i do... Wu had alot of friends and family as generals and didnt reallly go out looking for talent...(they get not so many good warriors but they had intelligent advisors)
Wei always went for talent before everything...(had more than shu because of the amout of land they had)
Shu just hired anyone who wanted to fight (gaining them a wider variety of generals some good strategists and others great warriors)

Zhuge did good to get on zhou yu's nerves cause really zhou yu was the only advisor that thinked like him.. and that was a threat, so if you put it in the long run... zhuge was helping out liu bei by taking the life of Wu's greatest strategist.

sorry for double post school comps kinda suck!
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Ero-Sannin
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Jiraiya is here!
[ *  * ]
Cao Shaung was a tyrant in his own right. Yuan Shu had some talent, Sun Jian and his men all fought under Yuan Shu, and it is actually said, that Sun Jian gave him the seal when he returned from Luo Yang, not Sun Ce. So all in all, the only bad thing Shu did in my opinion, was declare himself Emperor.
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Bai Xue
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Didn't make it into history
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
-_- man now after reading all these posts I really want to find the original history documents! Even though ROTK is a 70/30 split between fact and fiction, I don't trust it as much as I used to; not like I did before because I knew it was just a novel but... in an odd way I feel like I've been a little lied to? Again, I shouldn't because it's novel and I knew it was somewhat fictional...

Though I did notice that Zhou Yu seemed a bit out of character with the whole challenges and assassination and whatnot, and even Zhuge Liang mocking Zhou Yu seems... well odd. Thogh I guess I don't truly know what "in character" is, it just felt... wrong...

Actually from what I've read it sounds like Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu would've made a good team :) And although I've learnt much by reading what's been posted here, I'm going to find some online copies of the actual history, if it's at all possible.
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Zhou Yu's sgz is linked too in the third page of this thread. That kongming.net site is a good place to start with their collection of sgz bio's (the SGYY's ones are novel based), it also has links to other historical sites.

One of the sideffects of the novel character assassination of Zhou Yu is it makes Zhuge Liang look like a jerk. For a hero, he doesn't come across as very loveable
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Bai Xue
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Didn't make it into history
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thanks :D

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Kaizer Yamato
Elite Soldier
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Zhou Yu
Nov 13 2005, 02:06 PM
i feel bad for Zhou Yu. I'm reading the Three Kingdoms and i just finished Zhou Yu's death. The poor guy was like a puppet for Zhuge Liang. Whatever he said, Zhuge Liang knew it already..

Unfortunately his life is so too short !
He hate Zhuge Liang cuz ZL doesn't want to work for Wu !

His hatred towards ZL make his is predictable for ZL
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Novelwise, that does make a good point though some of the novel Yu's words are tinged with jealousy.
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Kaizer Yamato
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
Dongzhou
Jul 14 2008, 10:47 AM
Novelwise, that does make a good point though some of the novel Yu's words are tinged with jealousy.

Actually ZY is not jealous about ZL skill at all but he hate that ZL work for Shu instead for Wu

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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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I suppose we are differing views on the novel Zhou Yu. Though we should probably discuss that in the novel section
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Lu Su
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Heartbreak One
[ *  *  * ]
Bai Xue
Jul 9 2008, 02:49 AM
-_- man now after reading all these posts I really want to find the original history documents! Even though ROTK is a 70/30 split between fact and fiction, I don't trust it as much as I used to; not like I did before because I knew it was just a novel but... in an odd way I feel like I've been a little lied to? Again, I shouldn't because it's novel and I knew it was somewhat fictional...

Though I did notice that Zhou Yu seemed a bit out of character with the whole challenges and assassination and whatnot, and even Zhuge Liang mocking Zhou Yu seems... well odd. Thogh I guess I don't truly know what "in character" is, it just felt... wrong...

Actually from what I've read it sounds like Zhuge Liang and Zhou Yu would've made a good team :) And although I've learnt much by reading what's been posted here, I'm going to find some online copies of the actual history, if it's at all possible.

ZhouTai50 here seems pretty sharp on the history. I'd ask him.

A place I like to go as well is chinahistoryforum.com They are a wonderfully reputable resource.

I'll try to help here as well with what little skill I possess.
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yezhanquan
First Lieutenant
[ *  *  * ]
I love how Yi Zhongtian puts it. Remember: Zhou Yu, at a tender age, is a high ranking official, buddies with the local ruler (Sun Ce), handsome (nickname of "lang"), with a wife to boot (Xiao Qiao). Who would he be jealous of?
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Grace-Zed
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I am so smexy!
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Kaizer Yamato
Jul 17 2008, 02:17 PM
Dongzhou
Jul 14 2008, 10:47 AM
Novelwise, that does make a good point though some of the novel Yu's words are tinged with jealousy.

Actually ZY is not jealous about ZL skill at all but he hate that ZL work for Shu instead for Wu

Zhou Yu was so jealous about Zhuge Liang's intelligence and Cao Cao wanted to kidnapped his wife (a rumour told by Zhuge Liang). He knew that Zhuge Liang would be a threat for Wu so he was trying to kill him quickly. His jealousy and rage made him sick so badly and he died. such a tragic ending :(
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Wenze
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Omniscient Strategist
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That's only in the novel, though. Historically, the two never had a rivalry and Zhou Yu died of natural causes, likely in conjunction with the wound he recieved during the siege of Nanjun.
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snipe601
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Tiger General
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And i suppose that woud zhou yu died of came from the poison arrow shot by Cao Ren's ambush.
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Wenze
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Omniscient Strategist
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While there is no record of the arrow that Zhou Yu was hit with during the siege of Nanjun being poisonous, I would say it likely contributed to his death due to illness shortly after.
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the red clift
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Indonesian Warrior
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My theacher told to me about Zhou Yu.And he told Zao Yu`s weapon was a knight.Is it true? :?:
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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A knight is a job/status title rather then a weapon?
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a0002073
Sergeant
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Zhou Yu is ome of my favorite character of Wu.
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