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| Liu Bei; For virtue! | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 6 2007, 10:00 PM (2,278 Views) | |
| faichaim0nd | Jan 6 2009, 11:55 AM Post #101 |
just an ordinary passer-by....
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i dont care much for the character speeches, unless they really piss me off><" but for one, i know liu bei doesnt, having read about him in the novel, and i went to have a soft spot for shu...oh well, that pretty much shows why i prefer using shu characters  but for liu bei, i found his ruler's moveset in dw5 pretty dull(especially in wo2, when you have to get liu, sun quan and cao cao to 50 proficiency...i got so bored using him at times...) but in dw6, he's so different that i enjoyed using him so much. He was one of the first characters i managed to max out as well. 
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| Xalfrea | Jan 15 2009, 12:43 PM Post #102 |
Organization XIII's Number XV
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I like many, didn't like Liu Bei's personality. When compared to the reality speeches of Cao Cao, or the preservation of Sun Quan, Liu Bei's preaching can be annoying at times. DW5 was IMO the first time they gave Liu Bei a full personality, but they really made him a little too whiny. I mean for the fact that when Guan Yu died, he really got out of control. DW6 took in a bit of the right direction; adding even more passionate speeches, but making him tougher to the point that he gets friggin pissed. Moveset wise, Pre DW5 an the WO's offered something not too special; Yuan Shao, Sun Jian and Sun Quan have similar movesets already. But DW6, dang, he's so fun to use. I tried him this morning, and he cleaves through all the enemies like they were nothing. Probably my 2nd favorite character to use after Xiahou Dun (That may change when I unlock Lu Bu). For what it's worth though, Liu Bei is an interesting character, and his personallity is kind of like people in real life; wanting to change the world through fantasy like ideals that are easier said than done. |
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| Hares999 | Jan 26 2009, 04:43 PM Post #103 |
GOD OF WAR
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The most virtuous leader ever. His moveset is good for close combat and his musou is one the best. He should be the one to rule the land!!! |
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| King Of Wei | Jan 26 2009, 04:51 PM Post #104 |
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Why do they even bother!!!!
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Liu Bei is the worst leader in the history of history. I didn't like that cutscene in DW5 were Liu Bei and Cao Cao were talking about something. It made it look like they both are the best ruler but only Cao Cao was and Liu Bei wasn't. He cries and gets angry when a peasant die. I mean what the hell...lol...What kind of leader is a cry baby...Cao Cao is the best and will always will be...Liu Bei is better then Yuan Shao, I got to admit that but he just looks like a peasant himself and too virtuous in DW5 and etc. I am sooooo looking forward on how Koei will portrait Liu Chan. Who is the worst leader in the history of history. Well that is what I heard. |
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| Eni | Jan 26 2009, 05:17 PM Post #105 |
I've heard the monkey is an odd one, but the wife, she's a whole new level of crazy.
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Lots of Liu Bei hate...nice. Anyways, i really liked this dude, his DW6 moveset is the best one out of the 3 lords, awesome Volley special and when his True Speed attacks are pretty neat. Constant preaching?! In a Koei game?! How dare they! But seriously about his personality and story, i really like how he starts as a guy who doesnt even believes in his own worth, loses someone he cherished as a brother and stills makes Wu join him. And honestly, if that did happen to my "brother" i would sure as hell go into a murderous rage and kill them all...but not because the enemy is Wu. 
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| Seraphil | Jan 28 2009, 06:50 AM Post #106 |
稲が成敗いたします！
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Why you bother saying anything when you really don't know anything? |
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| RedFoxxie | Jan 28 2009, 07:12 AM Post #107 |
Officer
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*NOTE: Never played DW6* As a character I find him much like the other rulers, above average. Goodish moveset, I never liked his T much. It's awkward to hit with. Musou is very generic but does the job. SSSSST definetely is useful, though generic as well. As for his nature, I loved playing him in Empires-games cause he was the only leader I could at all even think of being a good-natuted emperor instead of evil. In DW-series in certain stories I was like "OH NO NOT NOW LIU BEI!" when he stops in place and mourns over peasants, and gets pounded alive by others. Other than that, I like his personality storywise. Shu wouldn't be Shu without Liu Bei. |
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| King Of Wei | Jan 29 2009, 02:19 PM Post #108 |
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Why do they even bother!!!!
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So your saying Liu Bei is better then Cao Cao   Everyone knows Cao Cao is the best. Liu Bei is nothing without Zhuge Liang. Actually Shu is nothing without Zhuge Liang. Everyone in Shu is so poor and look like some random peasants on the streets. (Huang Zhong/WeiYan/YueYing in DW5) While Wei has Zhen ji/Cao Pi/Xiahou Dun/Cao Ren who all looks like a leader/warrior and etc. When Guan Yu died and Liu Bei listened to Zhuge Liang then maybe shu wouldn't have gotten defeated by Wu. See, he didn't listen to Zhuge Liang and he lost. |
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| EverLp | Jan 29 2009, 02:36 PM Post #109 |
First Lieutenant
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So if you are saying real history.......Liu Bei did not attack Wu for Guan Yu....And ...... Liu Bei is far more better than Cao Cao....Why? Cause: 1.Liu Bei virture had win Cao Cao already.....A emperor without virture cannot rule his land well therefore Cao Cao did not become emperor because he know his virture is not better than Liu Bei and he scare people will scold him after he died(although the same thing happened even he did not kick Emperor Xian out of the throne) 2.Half done battle everytime after Chi Bi and always did not mange to recapture the land if he wanted to also fail to kill Ma Chao,fail to finish Wu in He Fei,fail to plan to defeat Shu in han Zhong.......Why because..... 3.Too much enemies and rival at his back or front.....Front got Sun Quan who terrorizes him at He Fei and Liu Bei at Han Zhong......Back loyal diehard minister of Han try to kick him out Of PM..... 4.Too many personalities.......Sometime generous sometime not sometime happy sometime not making the general not RESPECT him while instead they SCARE him...... 5.Since Guo Jia died cao Cao starts to have a habit not to listen to stargetits plan and one of the main losing reasons in Chi Bi.....although sometime he did listen....... See......Who is better?Of course is Liu Bei.....But Liu Bei still got his stubborn attutide but he is caring and loving. If there is a rank of Warlords in Three Kingdoms and who is quite suitable to be emperor I think: 1st:Sun Quan 2nd:Liu Bei 3rd:Cao Cao And do not think that peaseants is useless cause two leaders in China is born peaseants:The Great Emperor Of Han:Liu Bang The Great Emperor of Ming:Zhu Yuan Zhang Edited by EverLp, Jan 29 2009, 02:37 PM.
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| Eni | Jan 29 2009, 05:32 PM Post #110 |
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I've heard the monkey is an odd one, but the wife, she's a whole new level of crazy.
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YEAH! that's why he won in the end...oh wait...he didn't. Wei Yan?! A random peasant?! Oh and Huang Zhong and Yue Ying too?! SHU SMASH! Now seriously, those are opinions, not facts, if you can prove that Tsao Tsao was"ZOMG the bestest" please do. |
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| King Of Wei | Jan 29 2009, 05:35 PM Post #111 |
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Why do they even bother!!!!
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I know these are my opinions  I just don't like Shu much, they have horrible and annoying characters. Wei probably only has 1 but Shu Ma Chao/Liu Bei and it can go on... Cao Cao is the best, he is way better then Liu Bei. I mean Cao Cao gets compared with Oda Nobunaga in WO while Liu Bei gets Ieyasu |
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| Eni | Jan 29 2009, 05:40 PM Post #112 |
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I've heard the monkey is an odd one, but the wife, she's a whole new level of crazy.
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You just had to insult Wei Yan.  Fair enough, if thats your opinion, i cannot argue with that. Spoiler: click to toggle
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| Jiahe | Jan 29 2009, 05:58 PM Post #113 |
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KoW, I don't see how your logic proves that Cao Cao is better then Liu Bei when your just comparing Wei as having a better roster of characters that seem like better leaders while Shu all look like poor random peasants. |
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| Dongzhou | Jan 29 2009, 08:39 PM Post #114 |
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General
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1) Liu Bei is hardly in a position to speak of virtue, ask Zhang Yu. Why did Cao Cao not have virtue? Why did Liu Biang, he of backstabbiness and defiling scholars hats rule the land? Or the Qin guy? Cao Cao was no saint, neither was Liu Bei, Cao Cao was not the next Xiang Yu either. The only reason the Han was alive because Cao Cao chose it be so, Liu Bei could respond with propaganda (which he was wonderful at) but few would honestly give a flying fig at that point. The Han was dead really, it was only be sheer fortune years and years later that somebody wrote a propaganda novel that it becomes an issue of virtue. 2) After Chi Bi: make the southern defences against Wu impregnable, come up with the He Fei plan which humiliated Quan, reformed the government further, smashed the Qiang so badly they were not a threat again for years (just because he failed to kill one guy, doesn't make it any less of an achievement), settled the succession, founded a new court, secured his grip internally, forced a token surrender from Quan and beat Zhang Lu despite stubborn resistance. Didn't get to Hanzhong in time to prevent it falling to Liu Bei and clearly slowed down near the end, also lost Jing which was a pain in the back for Wei. Not the heights of before but that was going to be difficult when the heights were so magnificent and terrain is against you. Liu Bei hits his best spell though after Chi Bi, nibbling bits of Jing, performing diplomatic master pieces to con Quan and Liu Zhang, beat Zhang after three years, take Hanzhong. 3) The die hard loyalists, aka Dong Cheng and Empress Fu, were dead or powerless. The problem is, Wu is impenetrable by the water, Shu was once Hanzhong was taken, neither Quan or Bei are stupid enough to turn onto each other long term. It was impossible for Cao Cao to do anything about that though so why does this make Bei better then Cao Cao? 4) Yet look at few defected from him, how he kept his officer core together when on the brink of defeat twice and was admired around the land. There is little evidence to suggest his officers were scared of Cao Cao despite his paranoia. Like Liu Bei, whatever their personal flaws, men would follow them onto death and men flocked to them throughout. Doesn't sound like either scared their officers 5) Jia Xu's alternative plan at Chi Bi and Liu Ye's at Hanzhong are both of questionable merit. Liu Bei also ignored his advisor's when he felt they were wrong, both were skilled commanders and political figures who had earnt the right to do so Game wise, I prefer Cao Cao's darker side to Liu Bei's virtue one. Historically? Cao Cao was paranoid, he could be cruel but he conquered 2/3rds of the land, gave people security, order and prosperity so culture could flourish again, was a literary figure in his own time, a romantic. I admire Liu Bei, a cautoius but skilled commander, an able governor, very charismatic, kind for a warlord, a political genius, cunning. Going to go for the guy that conquered most of the empire over the guy who held 2 and a third provinces at his peak. If you want to respond, we should probably get a debate going in the history thread rather then here. Edited by Dongzhou, Jan 29 2009, 08:41 PM.
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| Celestial | Jan 29 2009, 09:58 PM Post #115 |
Glad to meet you. Lord Liu Bei.
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Liu Bei or Cao Cao? Liu Bei cares about the people & Cao Cao doesn't care much. Who sounds better to serve hmmm? |
 Walking at the side of the one you care about. Holding hands and sharing life together. | |
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| Wenze | Jan 29 2009, 10:29 PM Post #116 |
Omniscient Strategist
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Maybe the guy who didn't execute his own officer because he made a joke about his lack of facial hair?(coughLiuBeicough) In all seriousness, though, both had their good and bad points, and were quite similar, actually. But, this isn't really the place to discuss an historical comparison between the two. If you wish to discuss that, please visit the Three Kingdoms section of the History Realm. |
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| *Burning* Devil Scholar | Jan 31 2009, 02:36 AM Post #117 |
What Do You Fight For?
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This seems like an interesting little debate . Who is better, Liu Bei or Cao Cao. Sorry, but Cao Cao is the much better leader, but I won't go into it too much as it isn't a Cao Cao topic. First, I do actually like Liu Bei, very much at one point. I considered him easy to use and he had a pretty good, average moveset. Personality wise, this is where Cao Cao takes it in both history and the game. I love Liu Bei's duel blades in DW6, so fast an unique, suits him. Liu Bei was a sensative and caring guy but he isn't a suitable leader. He commited very controversial moves such as attacking Liu Zhang, and the atrocious Battle of Yi Ling which was a stupid move to make. He expressed a 'false' sence of virtue whereas Sun Jian and Cao Cao admit to their somewhat ruthless methods for the greater good of their people. Liu Bei tried to show good, but really he just wanted things for himself deep down inside. I hated how his story is about "the people can change themselves" in DW6 as they clearly can't, people need a leader such as Cao Cao or Jian. Yi Ling really makes me go off Liu Bei, he threw away the dreams of those who believed in him for the death of his Sworn Brother, such a stupid thing to do, getting personal revenge in war when your a ruler, sheesh  .So, all in all, I do like him, I see him as a 'fallen leader' role, but seriously he hasn't got a patch on Cao Cao. Good ideals for Bei, wrong way of going about things. Zhuge Liang was the best thing for Shu, or else they would of simply turned out to of been another 'regional lord'. |
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| Dongzhou | Jan 31 2009, 11:36 AM Post #118 |
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General
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Your describing the novel Liu Bei rather then the historal one but given me a question. How do people feel about the portrayal of Yiling on Shu's side as a story? Specifically Liu Bei's part in it. The novel portrays it as the good but not very capable Liu Bei being so enraged by the loss of his close brother that he ignores Zhuge "never wrong" Liang and launches a reckless war that he bitterly regrets on his death bed, his arrogance punctured. Liu Bei's judgment is questioned throughout and the whole thing is all his fault while Liang gets to perform a rescue. History gives Liu Bei a more cynical edge to it, the need to be seen as strong and no puppet of Wu, the need for Jing and the opportunity of strained relations between Wei and Wu decide the invasion. Liu Bei's court is split, Zhuge Liang (whose advice has been erratic at this point) and Zhao Yun are against it but then the court had been split on taking Hanzhong. Liu Bei waits two years and advances as he always does, carefully, organized and a bit too cautiously, shows some of his skill but his weakness as well. Hit by fire attack after being held up, withdraws but then army shattered by fluke rockslide, his preparations mean he is able to escape but his 40,000 army was decimated. Becomes depressed, ill and dies. There's a balance between trying to make Liu Bei interesting, different from the other two warlords and not stripping him of ability. I am quite happy with going down the novel route to a point for Yi Ling, he has been betrayed by his brother-in-law and lose his sworn brother, he is angry and upset, he is human. If DW continue making him less of the novel useless but wonderful chap but rather the kindly, somewhat cynical and skilled warlord which is the path they headed for with 6, the anger and pain is a great way of showing he cares about something/someone. Granted revenge is never the best war policy (mind you Sun's and Cao Cao both did it) but it makes a story, Shu officers fighting for vengeance of their own, some fighting with doubts, the youngsters seeking to prove themselves and some perhaps doing it to reclaim Jing. Wu suffers early setbacks and is now on the defensive, Lu Xun is struggling to keep order, the veteran generals want to attack and are aggrieved by this youngster above them, Gan Ning is fighting while ill and how many regret taking Jing? Throw in Lady Sun's difficulty of fighting husband or family and the change of motives allowing different sides of people to be shown. Yet does Liu Bei get hurt by koei's use of the novel Yi Ling? Generally koei portrays Liu Bei as the moral one of the lords, less so in 6 but generally. Being moral and a warlord is going to contradict, people can end up calling Liu Bei a hypocrite. I would think the invasion of Liu Zhang is the tripping point, there is little way to butter up that betrayal and their attempt in 5 was just annoying. Yet often, I see Yiling as a reason why Liu Bei is a hypocrite and/or incapable, just just the novel one but the DW's Liu Bei. Is this the impression people here get? Does this hurt Liu Bei and if so, how would you guys change it? |
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| *Burning* Devil Scholar | Jan 31 2009, 01:17 PM Post #119 |
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What Do You Fight For?
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I know I was describing the novel one. Still, Liu Bei did still invade Liu Zhang, and he did still attack at Yi Ling over the loss of one dude. Dosn't change the fact Liu Bei had a lack of judgement. I would die of depression if I was him. |
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| Dongzhou | Jan 31 2009, 02:10 PM Post #120 |
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General
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If you mean novel fact in which case I agree with you utterly. The novel Bei doesn't know how to eat breakfast without Liang advising him so glad koei is moving away from the novel Bei generally |
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| Bamboo | Mar 7 2009, 04:21 AM Post #121 |
Smashtastic.
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I love Liu Bei. Maybe not his personality, but his moveset. Even with a power weapon, he's super fast, and, because of that, think of how devastating he could be with a high level weapon. He's quick, his strong attack chain is a definitely officer killer, his strong hold attack is a great crowd clearer, there's just a good list of things that are good about his moveset.. The only flaws that could apply to it is the Ice element being attached, which may freeze officers during the strong attack chain, and the ending attacks in his Musou, which I think he should move around a bit more. Personality-wise, I'd say he's pretty bland. Not excelling in that department, though he has more depth than Zhao Yun. KOEI could go so much deeper within the character, though they just want to make him the kind leader RotK pictured him as. It's not bad, it's just they overexaggerated it. In Dynasty Warriors 7, they should at least focus on his downfall. |
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| StrikeForce9 | Apr 13 2009, 02:01 AM Post #122 |
Is That All You Got?
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Now that I actually got a chance to play as DW6 Liu Bei, I began to like him again and mind less about his young unnaturally look (it's extremely odd when he hangs around DW6 Guan Yu and Zhang Fei)! His twin swords moveset is really cool, better than his DW5 moveset IMO! If only I could play DW5 Liu Bei with that moveset! 
Edited by StrikeForce9, Apr 13 2009, 02:01 AM.
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| kyroslasher | Apr 14 2009, 09:30 PM Post #123 |
Ω Ω Ω Ω Ω
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IMO Liu Bei just needs his beard back lol... because it just doesn't seem like Liu Bei without his beard (at least I remember when everyone thought he was a generic officer or Guan Ping when the first DW6 screenshot of the three brothers was released)... the prototype DW6 concept design for Liu Bei was pretty cool, I wonder what made them go for the current bland DW6 design we have now. But moveset-wise, he has improved in DW6... gotta give props to Koei for making a great moveset for him. As for his boring personality, I agree that it would be a lot more interesting if Koei could make his character more dynamic and flawed... but I think like others have said before me, Koei wants to make Liu Bei look like the idealistic, kind, moral leader that the everyday civilian is suppose to love... |
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| Jiahe | Apr 14 2009, 10:19 PM Post #124 |
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Actually it's more of a moustache than beard. A beard is something that Guan Yu and Sun Quan have. But yeah, Liu Bei doesn't really stand out to me much anymore without his stache. |
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| uzkuxiyamede | Jun 2 2009, 03:12 AM Post #125 |
da pwnR
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He is a love-hate for me yea, being virtuous is a good thing, but i just hate him(well, technically his officers) bragging abut it everytime they open their mouth yea, he looked awesome without the facial hair, just put him in a different realm than Cao Cao, which would make him seem weaker and less "Cao Cao like", and through that it will show the hardship Shu will go through, which i cn't help sympasize. The beard less lok, though.. made him look, a little generic. he inherited the cloth from dw5 cao pi i think. which actually bring me a little more in favor of him. His personality is really complicated, it is sometime too hard to understand and/or too undesisive in nature. his moves though, completely awesomeness |
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4:22 AM Nov 28
