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Some interesting fact about Da Ji...
Topic Started: Fri May 4, 2007 2:47 am (3,414 Views)
ChrisX
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Formerly known as Neo Juste Belmont
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Well if this belongs to MO section, kindly move it please...

They say in the beginning of her life, Da Ji was a normal, humble, but beautiful woman. But when she was on her way to be the concubine of King Zhou of Shang... she was killed by an evil spirit who took her body and does all the evil things.

So does this mean Da Ji used to be a good girl and the true evil behind her is that evil spirit who possessed her?
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Qing Long
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青龙
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Who is "they' (in "they say in the beginning...) ? :o

I only find about Da Ji in a Chinese dictionnary, that she was the concubine of the King Zhou in Shang Dynasty (who was a tyran). In an other book, I read that she caused the end of the Shang. :mellow:

Where do you read this story of evil ? Please.
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Alfie
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It's time to kick some ass and chew bubblegum...
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Probably Wikipedia <.<
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SRS
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Master of the War Trident

Da Ji was the fox spirit that possessed the concubine, not the concubine herself.
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ChrisX
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Formerly known as Neo Juste Belmont
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Well I'd like to know that one more... SRS, care to give us more sources?

Yes, I admit, I read from Wikipedia. Therefore I posted it here to make it sure who's who.
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Cervantes
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Qing Long the book you read about is creation of the gods right?

Ok here how it goes(I watched the show so i will tell u)
The last king of Shang,Zhou,gone to the temple and pray.In there he saw the creation god,Nuwa(the DW3).He immediately fell in love with her and began to ...have feelings towards her.He then told everyone to find for a woman who looked like Nu Wa.Nuwa angry at this summoned a fox spirit to posses a girl named DaJi.She looked like Nuwa and was sent to the Imperial Court.The fox spirit then told Zhou to do bad things.

This is just legend.Don't read too much into it
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Qing Long
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青龙
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Heum... In fact, I don't remenber the title, but I think it was about Chinese Mythology (I read it in a library). XD

And for the fox spirit, I don't remenber too. So, maybye, it'sn't the same book. XD

Thanks for your informations ^^
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Shogun
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~
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This is Da Ji's Tale: http://www.wku.edu/~yuanh/China/tales/daji_b.htm

I don't really know a lot about Chinese mythology but is this true? >>

A major conflict arose because of King Zhou's lust for the beautiful Daji; Su Hu eventually allowed this desire to be fulfilled. During a strange wind at night however, the original Daji was killed and replaced by an evil fox specter known as the Thousand-Year-Old Vixen. Within Investiture of the Gods, they is a specific poem that tells the trickery of Su Hu and the replacement of Daji's flesh and blood with a vixen that will fool the world to the very end. Thus following Daji's arrival at Morning Song - the capital of the Shang Dynasty - Daji would be considered as the greatest concubine under King Zhou and would be the only true attention of the king.


Chaos soon spread throughout the Shang Dynasty because of the idiotic ways of the inept king - the favoring of lust and wealth and shunning of the officials. A chapter in the two later on in the novel, a renowned man by the name of Cloud Dweller would be the first man to act against Daji by giving a magical wooden sword to the king that would make Daji sick and ill -- and eventually die. Even after many loyal officials pleaded for change - as to avoid the kingdom's death - Daji would always manage to grab hold of King Zhou's colossal idiocy and use it as a shield to kill "the evil". Thus, following Daji's future in the novel, she would even rise to the rank of queen and continue her mission - the destruction of Shang Dynasty.

I read this from the novel Investiture of the Fengshen Yanyi



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ChrisX
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Formerly known as Neo Juste Belmont
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That's exactly how it reads in Wikipedia. Are you sure you're not just copy-pasting from there?
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Shogun
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Nope. From the Fengshen Yanyi, Wiki was the one who copied the online version.
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Wu Fei
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Jianghu Xiao
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Daji was the one the influenced King Zhou of Shang to mislead him and bring the Shang dynasty to ruins. History says along with Daji, Zhou of Shang ruled with cruelty and tyranny that it eventually lead to his dynasty's downfall. King Wen of Zhou, and his tribe from the west in modern day Xi'an(Chang'an) overthrew him along with some other tribes and estabished the Zhou dynasty lasting for over 800 years.
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SlickSlicer
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*cough*winners write history*cough*
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Wo Long
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Dragon of the Abyss
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Guan's Apprentice Yoshitsune
May 31 2007, 09:35 PM
*cough*winners write history*cough*

Doesn't mean they lie.
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Wu Fei
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Jianghu Xiao
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Guan's Apprentice Yoshitsune
May 31 2007, 09:35 PM
*cough*winners write history*cough*


Tell that to Sima Qian the author of the Shiji, he's from Han Wudi's time(Han dynasty). :rolleyes:
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Xia Jin
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In Lurker Mode
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So an ancient fox spirit possessed a woman named Daji under the command of Nu Wa. So in this sense, Daji is working for the will of Heaven and thus doing the right thing? Destroying the Shang to give way to the prosperous Zhou?
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SRS
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Master of the War Trident

That's how I see it. Doesn't necessarily mean Da Ji herself is all flowers and sweets, though.
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kongming's_disciple
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Tiger General
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Sun Wufei
May 31 2007, 05:14 PM
Daji was the one the influenced King Zhou of Shang to mislead him and bring the Shang dynasty to ruins. History says along with Daji, Zhou of Shang ruled with cruelty and tyranny that it eventually lead to his dynasty's downfall. King Wen of Zhou, and his tribe from the west in modern day Xi'an(Chang'an) overthrew him along with some other tribes and estabished the Zhou dynasty lasting for over 800 years.

In reality, there is historical evidence that shows the Zhou had preplanned the invasion of Shang and it is they who attacked the Shang first. We have to keep in mind that the last emperors of many dynasties are often portrayed as evil, corrupt, immoral tyrants, which sometimes isn't all true - but such portrayals may be a rationale to uphold The Mandate of Heaven, or justify the conquest as to not make the founding emperor of the dynasty appear a traitor, explain the fall of a dynasty in a manner that fit with the pattern of the dynastic cycle - which might meant trying to fit an oddity, an event that cannot simply be explained into a certain mold, typecast to explain it, when in reality there are many factors and reasons accounting for such an event.
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Wu Fei
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Jianghu Xiao
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What does this quoting have to do with my post? Doesn't seem like anything disagreeable.
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kongming's_disciple
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I am just using the quoted passage as an example to illustrate my point, to remind all of us to be aware of the historical sources that we are reading might not be all truthful, keep a questioning mind when we are reading these sources and not just accept everything they say. Sometimes the reality or the cause of something is more complicated than simply a tyrant.
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Wu Fei
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Jianghu Xiao
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I totally agree with you that,

The one thing that prompted King Wen to attack his overlord was the fact of what all common humans have. Which is greed, fame, and money. King Zhou was losing support, he ruled with tyranny, killed people as he please, dined in endless pleasures. Shang was on the verge of destruction either way around. And he took that opportunity to attack it. If memory serves me correctly, When King Wu and Jiang Ziya entered the Shang capital, King Wu immediately ordered the search of Daji and he personally executed her on the spot for her tyrannic and sinful ways.

Speaking of the Mandate of Heaven, King Wen along with King Wu were the first to apply the theory of the MoH, giving justification for his actions. It was later use throughout history as proclamations and rights for rebels and usurpers.

And so far it still exist today, Taiwanese claim that the Mandate of Heaven belongs to the Republic of China established by the Nationalist/Guomingdang in Taiwan. But Mainlanders on the other hand believe that the sovereignty of China rest in the People's Republic of China. There's still some struggle on that political issue, but that's off-topic.
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snipe601
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Yeah about da ji, i had watch a tvb drama about fengshen yanyi and it is called Gods of Honour. That show exanggerated a lot of the characters. The one character they portrayed well in the drama is da ji herself. (she looks very evil in the show) In my country, they ommited the scene where jiang ziya executed daji.
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Yuuhi
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Sergeant
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Much of what was said about this certain lady probably stemmed from the novel 'Fengshen Yanyi'. We all know how misleading 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' are, so why should we doubt the same with 'Fengshen Yanyi'?

From the sources I've read which includes the Chinese Wiki, it appears that the atrocities of King Zhou and Daji accumulated throughout the centuries.

Try passing a message from one person to another in a group of ten... your message would have become distorted by the third person. What more of history that is more than two thousand years old?

Qin Dynasty had chronicles of both King Zhou and Daji, but they sang praises of the King, saying that he was a capable leader both in administration and warfare. Very little was said about Daji, who was most probably just another normal favoured concubine of the King instead of some evil scheming woman who's got nothing better to do than to stir trouble.

King Zhou was not even known as King Zhou back then. The name 'Zhou' appeared to have been added on very much later after Shang Dynasty's demise. Back then, he was known as Dixin. It was also said that Shang Dynasty reached its peak of prosperity under Dixin's rule, and the much condemned wine ponds meat gardens were the result of extreme richness in Shang's coffers.

History have always been written by survivors and VICTORS, who were usually ENEMIES of those who lost out. Propaganda has also always been a favoured tool no matter in wars or common life.

And everything else that Kongming_disciple had said. :D

Quote:
 
Yeah about da ji, i had watch a tvb drama about fengshen yanyi and it is called Gods of Honour. That show exanggerated a lot of the characters. The one character they portrayed well in the drama is da ji herself. (she looks very evil in the show)

Woot! All hail to Wen Bixia! ^O^ She's hot, and really does possess a foxy face. ^^;
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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Da Ji had existed as an actually historical figure. But it's just that she has all this mythological crap thrown onto to her. She was known as King Zhou's most favored concubine, and had a ton of power within his kingdom. She was known as being a rather cruel person who would give out some heavy punishments for the people who served her. This is the reason for her persona in WO.
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empresszhen
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So Da Ji existed historically ?! Or in mythology only ?! I have read many articles about her in the net and it says she was the cruel concubine of King Zhou and she died because of the son of the man she killed rebelled on them and King Zhou . Well , I don't really know . :rolleyes:
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kongming's_disciple
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Da Ji is an actual historical figure, as are some of the characters in Fengsheng Yanyi. Although some of the events and details in the novel are based on history, don't take the story in Fengsheng Yanyi for real. True, King Zhou of Shang did slaughtered his uncle Bi Gan, King Wu of Zhou and Jiang Ziya did overthrow King Zhou, and it is also true that Jiang Ziya was an exceptional military commander. However, they did not conquer Shang in the Lord of the Rings way Fengsheng Yanyi made them out to be, with Jiang Ziya summoning magic, resurrecting previously deceased generals, calling upon rains, storms, mystics for help, with dragons, gods, and Lao-Tzu involved. The author had always intended for Fengsheng Yanyi to be a fantasy novel.
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