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Sangokushi Koumeiden and Sangokushi Sousouden; Kongming and Cao CAo
Topic Started: May 20 2007, 03:29 PM (1,444 Views)
Will
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangokushi_Sousouden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangokushi_Koumeiden
"it is possible in those versions to save Pang Tong, which leads to a chance to have Zhuge Liang lead a force to rescue Guan Yu. Successfully rescuing Guan Yu will prevent the Battle of Yiling taking place at all." -kongming
"fictional" route where Zhuge Liang becomes possessed by a great evil. One notable feature of the fictional route is that Guan Yu, notable for loyalty to Liu Bei, will join Cao Cao's force permanently to avenge Liu's death; likewise, almost all of the General Dueling events in the fictional route are triggered by Guan Yu."-Cao Cao
Me like both bias stories ^^. anyoner who have the cheats can pm me. It's pretty hard. Zhao Yun, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei lefted me in Sangokushi SouSou
Both are for gameboy advance but in japanese
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Sun Ce of East Wu
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This isn't one of the ROTK games (despite the title), and I think you'll get more views on this topic in the Other KOEI Games forum anyway. These are called "Legend of Kongming" and "Legend of Cao Cao" and should be titled as thus in these forums, because most people don't speak Japanese on these forums (and the games are available in Chinese anyway).
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fixdw6/ - The petition for KOEI to release additional content for DW6. Please spread the word, but no duplicate signatures! We got them to release ROTK11 on the PC in English, so let's continue to give them input so that they release even better games.
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Mingchan
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Wow, seems interesting!! Are there any emulators and roms out there for this game?
Sayonara...

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dwMaNiAc
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Nice! Where can you get the game?
[size=14]Fate can be cruel![/size]
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Sun Ce of East Wu
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You'd really have to search for it. Emulation and piracy aren't supported on these forums, even though I'm not sure if the game qualifies as either since it isn't sold by KOEI anymore.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fixdw6/ - The petition for KOEI to release additional content for DW6. Please spread the word, but no duplicate signatures! We got them to release ROTK11 on the PC in English, so let's continue to give them input so that they release even better games.
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Will
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Sun Ce why don't you try the game?
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Sun Ce of East Wu
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I own the Legend of Cao Cao one for PC. Bought it in Chinatown a few weeks back.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fixdw6/ - The petition for KOEI to release additional content for DW6. Please spread the word, but no duplicate signatures! We got them to release ROTK11 on the PC in English, so let's continue to give them input so that they release even better games.
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Mingchan
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The problem I mostly have is that I can't read Japanese, and if I'm not mistaken the two games have never been translated, hence the need for a rom...T_T
Sayonara...

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Will
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Haha cool I should buy one too.
How is Legend of Cao CAo to you? you might like Legend of Koumei
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Sun Ce of East Wu
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Mingchan
Jun 10 2007, 10:48 PM
The problem I mostly have is that I can't read Japanese, and if I'm not mistaken the two games have never been translated, hence the need for a rom...T_T

They're also available in Chinese.

Willxdiana
Jun 10 2007, 11:02 PM
Haha cool I should buy one too.


LoCC is cool because it has the alternate story path (if you play virtuously) in which Zhuge Liang conspires with Wu to have Liu Bei and company killed, and Guan Yu joins Wei in order to help avenge Liu Bei, Guan Ping, and Zhang Fei's deaths.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fixdw6/ - The petition for KOEI to release additional content for DW6. Please spread the word, but no duplicate signatures! We got them to release ROTK11 on the PC in English, so let's continue to give them input so that they release even better games.
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Mingchan
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Sun Ce of East Wu
Jun 11 2007, 05:12 AM
Mingchan
Jun 10 2007, 10:48 PM
The problem I mostly have is that I can't read Japanese, and if I'm not mistaken the two games have never been translated, hence the need for a rom...T_T

They're also available in Chinese.

Willxdiana
Jun 10 2007, 11:02 PM
Haha cool I should buy one too.


LoCC is cool because it has the alternate story path (if you play virtuously) in which Zhuge Liang conspires with Wu to have Liu Bei and company killed, and Guan Yu joins Wei in order to help avenge Liu Bei, Guan Ping, and Zhang Fei's deaths.

I'm a banana. Can't speak a word of Chinese. Also, I can't find the game here. I searched the computer game stores and nothing. Guess I have to wait for me to be old enough to get a credit card and ue E-bay...

And if what you say about Cao Cao going good is true, then I really REALLY want to get that game...
Sayonara...

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Will
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Yeah Cao Cao's story is cool, I better get it. =p
Zhuge Liang is possess in that game woot!
Anyways MingChan have you play the game fire emblem>? if you do then it's pretty much the same...
I went through Koumei like reading a book and all the things that happen I already know for Shu, expect the part while they advance on the capital.

Im a banana too b ut Sun ce is the opposite.
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Mingchan
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Willxdiana
Jun 11 2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah Cao Cao's story is cool, I better get it. =p
Zhuge Liang is possess in that game woot!
Anyways MingChan have you play the game fire emblem>? if you do then it's pretty much the same...
I went through Koumei like reading a book and all the things that happen I already know for Shu, expect the part while they advance on the capital.

Im a banana too b ut Sun ce is the opposite.

BTW, a banana is not someone who deosn't know Chinese. A banana is a person who is a Chinese, but knows NOTHING of Chinese culture and language.

The banana is used because it's yellow on the outside, white on the inside. I don't need to explain, right?

Can I ask about Zhuge Liang's game? What's the storyline? Any interesting plot twist like in Cao Cao's?
Sayonara...

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Will
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Not really.. I don't know chinese so I just go through the whole story.
With my fire emblem and advance war skills I was able to beat the game.
The game is very easy when you have Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, but when they died it gets harder on you.
Yue Ying has a son with Kongming and you have 4 options to raise him
1. To be like Liu Bei
2. To be like his father Kongming
3. To be like Zhao Yun
4. Let him do whatever he wants.
Mys turned out to be like his father kongming and has very good magic.
I never played fictional mode so that is why I probably didn't save Guan Yu from dying although I tried 30 frickin times before giving up.
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Mingchan
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...

TO MIDVALLEY!!!! I SHALL RANSACK ALL THE STORES TILL I GET MYSELF THIS GAME!!!

Can Cao Cao get a son like that?
Sayonara...

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SlickSlicer
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I played the one with Zhuge Liang a long time ago. I remember really liking the battle system and how the sprites interacted with one another in battle. There were some weird units though, and I didn't understand a lot. ONe kind of unit looked like it had a bunch of troops with cymbals. I liked how units had troops instead of a lifebar or some crud like that. ~_~

I remember that Pang Tong was very f*cking hard to save because you started out facing a LOT of enemies in that battle and you started out quite a bit far away from Pang Tong's unit. I don't think I managed to save him.
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Cybaster
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Aug 7 2007, 04:14 AM
I played the one with Zhuge Liang a long time ago. I remember really liking the battle system and how the sprites interacted with one another in battle. There were some weird units though, and I didn't understand a lot. ONe kind of unit looked like it had a bunch of troops with cymbals. I liked how units had troops instead of a lifebar or some crud like that. ~_~

I remember that Pang Tong was very f*cking hard to save because you started out facing a LOT of enemies in that battle and you started out quite a bit far away from Pang Tong's unit. I don't think I managed to save him.


Heh, that's the Minstrel unit. Primarily used for raising morale, although the Minstrel unit's much more important function is to recover your Generals' "MP" when placed next to each other. I remember struggling in the final battle (not in Koumeiden, but in its predecessor game, Sangokushi Eiketsuden) because I didn't invest in any Minstrels (recover Morale, MP) or Supply Units (recover HP) and towards the third map in the stage my strategists ran out of MP...

Minstrels are extremely hard to level up properly in Eiketsuden and Koumeiden, though, even if you really, really try (since the primary function you use them for yields no XP, and you only have a limited amount of turns to spam morale heals). It's easier to just level someone with a moderate Int to Level 50-60 and then use a class-changing item to get your Minstrels that way (Xu Shang and Ding Feng are good candidates for this in Eiketsuden; Zhang Wan and Fei Yi are also good, but Catapults are difficult enough to level as they are). With virtually all of your standard classes being able to heal morale, you really don't bother with their spells. :P

Let me list what I can remember of the various troop classes in all three games.

Eiketsuden:

Sword Infantry -> Spear Infantry -> Chariot (Standard infantry class, high defence, strong against archers but weak against cavalry. Can enter forests but not mountains. Spear Infantry can start attacking diagonals, and Chariots gain an extra point of movement. Liu Bei is stuck on this class chain, and Huang Zhong and Yan Yan start as Chariots.)
Longbowmen -> Crossbowmen -> Catapult (Standard archer class, long range but cannot attack enemies point-blank. Can enter forests but not mountains. Strong against cavalry but weak against infantry. Longbowmen have an attack range of 2, Crossbowmen have a range of 3, and Catapults have a range of 4. Jian Yong is your first archer, and Jiang Wan and Fei Yi start as Catapults mid-game.)
Light Horsemen -> Heavy Horsemen -> Elite Guard (Standard cavalry class, high attack. Strong against infantry (and archers to an extent) but weak against archer fire when attacked. Highest mobility, but cannot enter forests and mountains, and slows dramatically in rocky terrain. Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, Guan Ping, etc. all start as horsemen, as does Jiang Wei (although you really want him to be something else; see below). Curiously enough, Cao Cao and Lu Bu are also cavalry.)
Bandits -> Notorious Bandits -> Heroic Bandits (Mountainous terrain fighters, can enter mountains and gain hefty bonuses when fighting on that terrain, but otherwise behave like infantry for the most part (and are weaker). Can enter forests and mountains and start attacking diagonally when they become Notorious Bandits. You only get five bandit units in the entire game, one of those being Zhou Cang.)
Martial Artists (Light attackers, high attack but lower defence. Primarily uses Fire spells at higher levels. Can enter forests and mountains but do not gain the bonuses that Bandits do, but have a higher mobility than Bandits and Infantry. Can also attack diagonally. Wei Yan starts as a, and is your best, Martial Artist unit in the game.)
Jiang Troops (Similar to Martial Artists, but with pretty much the highest defence in the game, although unlike Koumeiden's Rattan Troops they are not extra-vulnerable to fire and not invulnerable against everything else. Primarily uses Water spells at higher levels. Can enter forests and mountains but do not gain the bonuses that Bandits do, but have the same mobility as Martial Artists. Can also attack diagonally. You can find four Jiang Troops units in the whole game, but you only get to keep one of them (Zhamo Ke).)
Beast Troops (Uses tigers to attack enemies. The highest attack in the entire game (and this is against all troop classes), but low defence. Primarily uses morale damaging spells and confusion, but the attack is what you want. Can also attack diagonally, IIRC, and can enter forests and mountains (although they do not get the same bonuses Bandits do). You only get three Beast Troops in the entire game, but only one of whom sticks with you for much of the entire game; Gan Ning starts as this, but you get him almost near late-endgame so he does not have as much contribution as one initially thinks.)
Supply Troops (The healers of the game. Slow (and gets slower in rocky terrain and forests, so giving your dedicated healers a Horse is highly recommended), but can cast the highest level Heals and Mass Heals. Can also attack diagonally, but why would you want to do that? NOTE: Supply troops take only half damage from enemy spells, excluding morale damage. Sun Qian is your first Supply unit, and Ma Liang later starts as this.)
Minstrels (Your other healers of the game. Faster than Supply Troops (they still get bogged down in forests IIRC, though), and can cast the highest level Morale Heals and Mass Heals, but cannot attack diagonally (not that you want to, anyway). Is also the only unit capable of restoring a General's MP by being next to each other, with the recovery rate per turn dependent on the unit's level. NOTE: Minstrels cannot restore their own MP unless they are next to another Minstrel unit, and take only half damage from enemy spells, excluding morale damage. Mi Zhu is your first Minstrel, and Ma Su later starts as this.)
Sorcerers (There's a reason why there's only one class-changing item in the game that allows you to change to this class. Weak attack and physical defence, but take only half damage from enemy spells (excluding morale damage) and can cast all of the spells in the entire game. Can enter forests but not mountains. Zhuge Liang, Pang Tong, and Xu Shu start as this, and you can use the item to get one more Sorcerer in near-endgame; If Pang Tong died, make sure you use it on Jiang Wei if you managed to get him.)

I'll do the ones for Koumeiden and Sousouden later.
Brian: "I wait 'til my party members are halfway across the bridge, and then I cut the rope. Thanks for playing, guys."
-Knights of the Dinner Table
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Cybaster
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Okay! The troop classes for Sangokushi Koumeiden (I don't quite remember for Koumeiden, oddly enough, so feel free to correct me):

Strategist -> Great Strategist -> Renouned Strategist (Basically the same as Sorcerer in Eiketsuden, except with class upgrades and less spells. Zhuge Liang alone, furthermore, possibly gains a special 'Super Spell' at high-level Renouned Strategist (in the GBA version this seems to be random depending on the stage he is in and what he has equipped on him).)
Tactician General (An offshoot of the Strategist with slightly more emphasis on melee. Can move freely in almost any terrain, unlike the Strategist, but has somewhat weaker spells than the Strategist. Jiang Wei starts as this.)
Light Infantry -> Heavy Infantry -> Elite Infantry (Basically the same as Eiketsuden, except Elite Infantry do not gain the extra point of movement that Chariots do.)
Longbowmen -> Crossbowmen -> Repeater Crossbowmen (Basically the same as Eiketsuden, except Repeater Crossbowmen are no longer slower than normal Archers.)
Light Horsemen -> Heavy Horsemen -> Elite Guard (Basically the same as Eiketsuden, except they don't get morale spells here. They're basically point-and-click attackers.)
Horse Archer -> Horse Crossbowmen -> Repeater Horse-crossbow (A new class line in Koumeiden, they have higher mobility than normal Archers, but shorter attack range. Otherwise share the same general properties as Archers, although they are slightly more resilient against infantry. In the GBA version, the third class change is removed.)
Chariot -> Heavy Chariot -> Great Chariot (Separated from Eiketsuden's infantry. Same general properties as infantry (without spells) and with unprecendented mobility in plains, but cannot enter forests, and slows down considerably in rocky terrain. In the GBA version, the third class change is removed.)
Catapult -> Large Catapult -> Blitz Catapult (A new class line. Catapults in this game are still slow, but are far more useful; At Large Catapult or higher, all enemy units adjacent to the target also takes splash damage, making them great defensive units.)
Bandits -> Heroic Bandits (Same as Eiketsuden, except without a third class change.)
Martial Artist -> Great Martial Artist (Same as Eiketsuden, except with a class change and different spells, IIRC.)
Beast Trainers -> Ferocious Beast Trainers (Same as Eiketsuden, except with a class change.)
Provision Unit -> Supply Unit (Same as Eiketsuden, except with a class change.)
Minstrel Unit (Same as Eiketsuden.)
Nanman Infantry (Like infantry, except they gain substantial bonuses in forests.)
Nanman Cavalry (This is Meng Huo and Zhu Rong's class. Lower attack than standard cavalry, but higher defence and can move in forests. Also gains considerable bonuses when fighting in forests.)

Unplayable Classes (These classes are used exclusively by enemy generals)

Emperor (Basically, Super Infantry sums them up. Also has more spells than standard infantry, such as a High-level Fire Spell.)
Commander (Same as Emperor, but less powerful.)
Rattan Troops (Oh. My. God. These troops are a far different league than the Jiang troops in Eiketsuden. Rattan Troops have no spells, but are invulnerable to every single attack possible (except Morale Damage), even if you cheat. The only weakness they have are against Fire Spells, which eat them up alive.)
Jiang Troops (These exist too, and are basically the same as their Eiketsuden counterparts.)
Elephant Troops (A variant of Beast Troops, except they hit considerably harder.)
Cobra Troops (A variant of Beast Troops, except they also inflict a Confused condition on their targets.)
Brian: "I wait 'til my party members are halfway across the bridge, and then I cut the rope. Thanks for playing, guys."
-Knights of the Dinner Table
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SlickSlicer
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Cool stuff. Rattan troops sound like a potentially major pain to deal with.

I've played the Legend of Cao Cao (I think that's Sosouden) English mod on TheScholars, so I know the unit types of that already. I recognize that many are similar (beast troops, catapults, etc.).
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Cybaster
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Oh, believe it. ><x The real kicker in Koumeiden is that you only meet them twice, but the first time you encounter the Rattan troops happens to be the stage that determines whether or not you get to keep Ma Chao in your forces. If Ma Chao is defeated in that battle (even if you cheat, which I *did* try in the GBA version just to blow through the story quickly, there is no possible way Ma Chao and Ma Dai can hurt them, either), he leaves your party permanently and dies of illness later on in the game. And the other bad news is that there is a ton of them in that stage.

Sousouden had some really interesting refinements to the class system (probably combining elements from Mori Motonari: Chikai no Sanshi and Oda Nobunagaden as well as Koumeiden). For one, unlike its two Sangokushi-era predecessors, it's no longer possible to change a General's class line without using an editor; for another, there are now new and easier ways to restore MP, so the Minstrel class is gone. In Sousouden there are items that restore a set amount of MP, and spells that trade a General's HP for MP. Also, designated Healers are no longer as useless as Eiketsuden and Koumeiden's Supply Troops were.

Just for completeness, here's the listing for Sousouden's Class Lines.

Peasant Hero -> Hero -> Conqueror (A refinement of Koumeiden's 'Emperor' class, with high attack and defence and a mixture of Wind, Fire, Healing and Buffing spells. The one distinct spell that belongs only to the Hero class line is Conquering Aura, which boosts all of the Hero's stats for a limited amount of time. Can attack diagonally at Hero. Most faction rulers in the game are this class, including Cao Cao, with the notable exceptions of Lu Bu and Zhuge Liang.)
Light Infantry -> Heavy Infantry -> Elite Guardsmen (Your standard infantry class line, high defence and parry rate. Otherwise the same as Koumeiden, except here they have no spells at all; In Sousouden, though, Infantry can start attacking diagonally right away. Cao Hong, Yue Jin, Li Dian and Pang De are your infantry units in this game.)
Longbowmen -> Crossbowmen -> Repeater Crossbowmen (Your standard archers, long attack range but cannot attack point-blank. Same as Koumeiden, but with no spells. Yu Jin and Xu Huang are your archers.)
Light Horsemen -> Heavy Horsemen -> Honor Guard (Your standard cavalry class line. For the most part the same as Koumeiden, but Honor Guards are now capable of attacking diagonally! Your cavalry in this game consists of Xiahou Dun, Cao Ren, Zhang Liao, Cao Zheng and Guan Yu.)
Horse Archer -> Horse Crossbowmen -> Horse Repeater Crossbowmen (Your mounted archer class line. Higher attack and movement than normal archers, but less range. Xiahou Yuan is your first Horse Archer, followed by Zhang He and then Cao Pi.)
Martial Artist -> Martial Brawler -> Martial Saint (Your martial artist class with high movement and critical hit rate. Also has a limited amount of debuffing spells, and can start attacking diagonals at Martial Brawler. Dian Wei is your only Martial Artist on your side in this game, and if he dies, you do not get another one.)
Bandit -> Heroic Bandit -> Outlaw Hero (Specialists in mountain fighting. Gain bonuses in rocky terrain and mountains, has high attack, and a limited amount of Earth-element spells. Can attack diagonals starting at Heroic Bandit. Xu Chu is your one and only Bandit on your side throughout the entire game.)
Dancer -> Dancer Princess -> Witch (The female version of the Martial Artist, with generally the same advantages but a limited amount of buffing spells, as well as a more useful HP Drain and Instant Death spell. Another ability, however, is that if any adjacent allied units (even diagonal ones) are suffering from any status debuffs at the start of a turn, the Dancer removes them automatically. Can start attacking diagonally at Dancer Princess. There are only two Dancers in the entire game, and the one that joins your side is none other than Diao Chan herself; The other is Zhu Rong, who is an enemy.)
Catapult -> Large Catapult -> Blitz Catapult (Same as Koumeiden. Your very long range attackers with the ability to inflict splash damage to adjacent units at Large Catapult. You only get one Catapult, belonging to Liu Ye.)
Tactician -> Advisor -> Military Instructor (A caster unit that specializes in direct damage spells, primarily in the Fire, Water and Earth elements. Also has a low-level Heal, some buffs, and a first-level HP-to-MP spell that targets only himself; Its Super Spell, requiring the Suzaku Gem to be equipped and the weather to be sunny, is a wide direct fire spell that does a ton of damage. Your two Tacticians on your side consist of Xun Yu and Cheng Yu.)
Geomancer -> Healer -> Cleric (This game's designated healer and buffer, with the most powerful healing and buffing spells, spells that restore other target team members' MP, and a high-level spell that allows any unit already taken its turn to move again. Its Super Spell, requiring the Byakko Gem, is a very powerful spell that restore your entire force's HP and status, regardless of where your army members are positioned. You only get two Geomancers, a role which Xun You and Man Chong hold.)
Mage -> Illusionist -> Sorcerer (An offensive caster specializing in debuffing spells that reduce enemies' stats, drains HP, and/or inflicts various status ailments. Also has a limited amount of healing spells. Its Super Spell, requiring the Genbu Gem and the weather to be cloudy, inflicts a random variety of buffs and debuffs towards every single unit, friend or foe, in the battlefield. You have two Mages, the mighty Guo Jia being your first and later the equally mighty Jia Xu.)
Mounted Tactician -> Mounted Advisor -> Mounted Military Instructor (Similar to the Tactician, except with less direct damage spells (only specializing in Fire and Wind elements with limited Earth spells). Its mounted state makes it fast, however, capable of keeping up with Cavalry and Horse Archers; It is also the only caster in your forces that is capable of casting Weather-changing spells to suit your other casters' needs. Its Super Spell, requiring the Seiryuu Gem and the weather to be raining or snowing, rains powerful lightning against enemies in the caster's surrounding three squares. Sima Yi is not only your forces' only Mounted Tactician, he is also the only Mounted Tactician in the entire game!)

Unplayable Classes

Sousouden expands even more on Koumeiden's NPC and enemy classes for more exciting gameplay.

Pirate (A unit primarily specializing in naval fighting with excellent attack power and a limited selection of Water-element spells. Used exclusively by the Wu forces.)
Commander-in-Chief (The premier caster unit for naval fighting. Has average stats, all Water-element spells and some Fire spells, and a low-level Heal and Confusion spell. Used exclusively by Wu generals such as Zhou Yu and Lu Xun.)
Xiliang Cavalry (Basically they're Sousouden's chariots. They have the highest physical attack and defence out of every single unit in the game, even without class upgrades, are not really subject to the standard cavalry's weakness against archers, and can attack diagonally from the offset. They also have better mobility in difficult terrain, such as snow, than standard cavalry do, but have next to no defence at all against spells. You will fight a ton of these throughout the entire game, with Lu Bu being the very first Xiliang Cavalry with a unique sprite, and then Ma Chao and Ma Dai with the generic Xiliang Cavalry sprite.)
Tiger Trainers (Uses tigers to attack. Their attacks are mainly known for being capable of hitting an adjacent unit to the caster in their line of attack. However, these units have little defence against ranged attacks and spells. Meng Huo's brother, whose name escapes me at the moment, is a Tiger Trainer.)
Bear Trainer (Uses bears to attack. They're basically a more resilient version of Koumeiden's Cobra Trainers, but are still weak against ranged attacks and spells; their attacks are mainly known for being capable of confusing whoever it hits. Meng Huo is a Bear Trainer.)
Yellow Turban (A peasant unit with low stats and no spells. Seen only in the very first stage and the fifth.)
Supply Troops (These exist, of course, but in Sousouden they are nothing more than NPC units serving a story purpose, such as luring Wen Chou into an ambush...)
Supply Ships (They only appear in the pre-stage cutscene in the Battle of the Red Cliffs stage. Used by Huang Gai to start his fire attack.)
Archmage (Ouch! This is the most powerful caster unit in the entire game, capable of casting approximately 80% of the spells from all four caster classes. Appropriately, there is only one Archmage in the game: Zhuge Liang, who in all three paths is pretty much your final boss.)
Sage (Outside of the game, this is your most powerful caster unit, period. Unlike the Archmage, the Sage is capable of casting every single spell in the game, even the Super Spells (although the Sage still requires the appropriate gem to use each one --- and ironically enough, cannot equip any of them normally. But then again, if you actually got a Sage, chances are you're using an editor and can just edit the gem in anyway), the Mounted Tactician's weather spells, and the Hero line's Conquering Aura. You only see two Sages in the entire game, and will never be made to fight one: one at the beginning of the first stage who will explain the game mechanics to Cao Cao and then disappear, and the other who gives Cao Cao the hint to build his fort out of ice and then disappear during the Ma Chao battle.)

And that's it!
Brian: "I wait 'til my party members are halfway across the bridge, and then I cut the rope. Thanks for playing, guys."
-Knights of the Dinner Table
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Oblivion
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I didn't play either, but I watched my brother play daily when I was young and he would tell me whats happening in the story...

Koumeiden I have no comment on as I didn't watch my brother play...

Sousouden was the one he played and it was awesome, the gameplay was an amazing tactical battle and the fact the story could split to a more fictional one was great, Guan Yu on Cao Cao's side slaughtering Wu Generals was awesome... :lol:

I wish Koei would port the games over to DS, but thats unlikely... my brother wants it to as Sousouden is his favorite Koei RPG :sad:
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Thanks go to XiaoQiaoGrace for the sig...
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