| Welcome to KOEI Warriors (Forum). We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. As a member you will also have access the exclusive Members Only Section where you will be privvy to a wide range of KOEI Warriors Renders, OSTs and Videos. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free! Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features! |
| Historical value | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Oct 6 2007, 09:58 AM (507 Views) | |
| Fayt | Oct 6 2007, 09:58 AM Post #1 |
Sakon, has left the topic.
  ![]](http://209.85.122.85/static/1/pip_r.png)
|
How well would you rate the historical content of the Kessen games? I'm sure you would have to draw a long bow to suggest that Kessen II is historically correct, although it does have a number of references throughout which are true, as do the other Kessen titles to a certain extent. Which of the titles do you feel offers the best historical content? Would you say it's better or worse then that of Dynasty/Samurai Warriors? |
 Star Ocean Universe | Forum | |
 |
 
|
| Shogun | Oct 6 2007, 10:40 AM Post #2 |
Generic Title
|
Kessen I and III are much more accurate than the SW games. Kessen II has a lot of historical inaccuracy: -Liu Zhang did not ally with Cao Cao and never knew him as a child -Zhang Fei did not kill Xiahou Yuan -Wu obviously did not submit to Wei -Sun Quan's sister wasn't called Sun Li -Cao Cao wasn't Liu Bei's brother -The love triangle and Diao Chan is complete bullcrap -Himiko has absolutely nothing to do with this -Zhuge Liang was not a sorcerer -Liu Bei did not defy the Mandate of Heaven -There was no Mei Sanniang There's a list of other errors, Kessen III: -Yamaguchi Samanosuke died during the unifications of Owari, which was much earlier than his death date in the game -Mitsuhide didn't kill Ishiiki Fujinaga -Otani Yoshitsugu had nothing to do with Nobunaga and wasn't even known in Oda's lifetime -Shimazu Yoshihiro didn't betray or meet Nobunaga for that matter Again, there are still a bunch of things I missed out. But I like how they included foreigners like Amalia van Kyre and that other Portugese mercenary in the game. I'd have to say Kessen II was the least accurate while Kessen I provided us with the best historical accuracy out of the three, I would've liked Kessen III better if it ended at Honnoji with Nobunaga dying. |
 The cake is a lie. | |
|
|
|
| Ike | Jan 9 2008, 09:20 PM Post #3 |
Emperor's Retainer
|
Well for one, in Kessen II it's really not so accurate. (History-Wise.) Most things Shogun said were true, as well Liu Bei and Cao Cao were not brothers, Xiahou Yuan did not single handle Yuan Shao's army with a small portion of troops, Liu Bei did not fly in Chi Bi and strike some clouds, (LOL!) Cao Cao's generals Yue Jin and Li Dian were not so weak leading men like they are portrayed. They were both very great officers under Cao Cao, later in their lives they would achieve great success. Liu Bei didn't risk hundreds of lives for one women. As for the rest, I don't know much Japanese history. But that's what I remember. |
 Signature by yuesunsx. HOLD IT | (>_o) | DTK When typing make sure to use proper grammar. now u dun sux u owe me Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
|
| Amakusa | Jan 11 2008, 05:21 AM Post #4 |
General
|
I'm surprised you didn't mention Yu Jin, or Xun Yu being a woman, or Himiko being on mainland China as a spoiled little brat. Although Xun Yu wasn't too bad as a woman. |
|
|
|
| Fayt | Jan 11 2008, 08:11 AM Post #5 |
|
Sakon, has left the topic.
|
Shogun started this off really well that’s for sure. In order of accuracy the series would be rated Kessen > Kessen III > Kessen II. Kessen II is a clear stand out for inaccuracies; absurd to the point of making Liu Bei & Cao Cao brothers, and making them fight over Diao Chan is quite a disaster. Although deeper into the game there are clear accuracies mixed in as well. Kessen I was quite historically sound, but I tend not to rate it as the gameplay was just short of crap and didn't interest me too much at all. Kessen III however is highly historically correct with a few variations to contribute further to the story such as Amalia etc who represent the foreign influence during the warring states and more obviously Nobunaga's dream extending beyond his death as Honnoji. Although unlike Shogun I felt it was a great addition and helped give closure to what Nobunaga's dream was, to unify the land and end the chaos. Amongst that we got scenes where both Ieyasu and Hideyoshi on separate occasions shown they had interest and the ability to lead further, so clearly the game had not forgotten the influence those two men had on the period either. For an historical and game blend Kessen III is by far the stand out, although for accurate history Kessen is the greatest of them. Kessen II I don’t really like to comment on in the historical area and rather focus on it’s awesome gameplay. |
|
Star Ocean Universe | Forum | |
|
|
|
| SlickSlicer | Mar 16 2008, 04:05 PM Post #6 |
|
-
|
I don't think any of them are anywhere near historical accurate. Major inaccuracies I can think of off the top of my head- 1.) Magic lol. 2.) Xun Yu is a woman in Kessen II. Yu Jin bats for the other team. Himiko, although historically having contact with Wei, was the queen of Japan and never cast magic/had a crush on Cao Cao. Uh...Liu Bei and Cao Cao were not brothers. That doesn't even make any sense. Li Dian did not wear a broom for a helmet. God, I could go on for hours. 3.) Amalia, Yoshino, etc. did not exist. Battle ninjer were rarely if ever used (this applies to kessen 1 and III). Mitsuhide did not shoot Nobunaga. Nobunaga did not survive Honnouji. I think the image of Matsunaga Hisahide as an old, conniving man is kabuki drama stuff. I'm not sure if he was like that historically. No and Nobunaga weren't anywhere near that close to one another. 4.) Kato and Kuroda both fought on the side of the Tokugawa at Sekigahara. The helmets in Kessen were made of win but I don't think most of them were realistic (I SAID MOST. I realize some like Masamune's were legit). Uh...Naomasa didn't die at Sekigahara. He was wounded but he died later. Kessen 1 comes closest imo to historical accuracy. Kessen 2 comes least close. But heck, historical accuracy would make the game boring. I'm not nitpicking here. I'm glad the games were the way they were. If they were historically accurate it would make me Kimahri a saaaaaaaaad dildo. |
|
|
|
| DrewTheDude-Dono | Mar 18 2008, 07:22 PM Post #7 |
HAY GUYZ! I'M GONNA GET BANNED FOR TROLLING! LOLZX!!!!111
|
I think another thing that should be picked at in terms of historical accuracy that I'm surprised no one mentioned were obviously the women fighting in the battles. Also, in Kessen 3, It's unknown whether or not Hideyoshi{Tokichiro in this game} had any interaction with Nobunaga before 1570. Hell, nothing was known about him before 1570. Some people even said he was born in China. In terms of the helmets, although not a lot of them weren't really casually worn by the Sengoku era soldiers, I would say that they were accurate as I do believe that there were people that did use all of them through some form or another. |
 KW Addict Minion Army collection and Teh Ultimate MO Team Animu, Gams and Artys? Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! | |
|
|
|
| SlickSlicer | Mar 18 2008, 11:39 PM Post #8 |
|
-
|
There's no way in hell he was born in China. 
|
|
|
|
| Fayt | Mar 18 2008, 11:54 PM Post #9 |
|
Sakon, has left the topic.
|
The game got his name changes correct though he was known as Kinoshita Tôkichirô before he began to prove himself where he picked up the name Hashiba Hideyoshi, which he used before becoming a Daimyo and taking up the Toyotomi name. But born in China...? I don't know about that... >.> |
|
Star Ocean Universe | Forum | |
|
|
|
| DrewTheDude-Dono | Mar 19 2008, 12:50 AM Post #10 |
|
HAY GUYZ! I'M GONNA GET BANNED FOR TROLLING! LOLZX!!!!111
|
I never said the name was incorrect. I just used the name Hideyoshi because that's the name most people are familiar with. I doubt it too. It was just one of those stories people came up with for his past because nobody knew where he came from. The idea was mostly derived from the fact that he invaded China and the story goes that he wanted revenge on the country for making him an exile... Rather far-fetched if you ask me. |
|
KW Addict Minion Army collection and Teh Ultimate MO Team Animu, Gams and Artys? Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! | |
|
|
|
| Fayt | Mar 19 2008, 01:26 AM Post #11 |
|
Sakon, has left the topic.
|
Yeah I know, I just found it odd how you added Tokichiro to his name as it does change during the game, so I just pointed that out. As for the theory, I guess considering the early stages of the past are rather unknown it can't be ruled out, so people believe it if they want to I guess. But back on something Slick said, the games would suck if they were purely based on history. But I certainly appreciate as much of a historic feed as possible, the blend used in Kessen 3 was awesome. Kessen 1 looked great but was pretty bland, and Kessen 2 is just a damn joke. >.> |
|
Star Ocean Universe | Forum | |
|
|
|
| DrewTheDude-Dono | Mar 19 2008, 11:12 PM Post #12 |
|
HAY GUYZ! I'M GONNA GET BANNED FOR TROLLING! LOLZX!!!!111
|
I don't mind if a game that puts complete focus on history if the is actually good. The same applies for historic fiction as well. |
|
KW Addict Minion Army collection and Teh Ultimate MO Team Animu, Gams and Artys? Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! | |
|
|
|
| TheRyanHimself | Mar 20 2008, 04:33 PM Post #13 |
The children of Evil are truly insane.
|
Anyone seem to remember the absolutely terrible way Wei Yan was portrayed in Kessen 2? He didn't seem like a very skilled fighter at all. More or less of a coward. Kessen 1 I simply can't progress in because of the difficulty and..straight up NOT FUN gameplay. Though I still own it for my Koei Collect. Kessen 3 won't work for me and when I DID play it, I knew nearly nothing about Japanese history. So I'm only really familiar with Kessen 2, which takes a ridiculous amount of liberties. But..they don't TRY to make it seem accurate. It's fun and the story is cool with different twists on familiar characters. Tell me Xiahou Yuan wasn't one of the most badass officers in that game? And Xiahou Ba as well. |
| |
|
|
|
| Wenze | Mar 20 2008, 06:14 PM Post #14 |
Omniscient Strategist
|
The original Kessen was the most accurate in terms of both gameplay and storyline. It was a bit boring, but I really like the cinematics and the designs for the generals. Kessen 2 was utterly fictional, and in some cases, downright offensive. KOEI went out of their way to make Cao Cao's force look like a bunch of weaklings and incompentents, and I won't even get started on what they did to Yu Jin, Xun Yu, and Xu Chu. I do agree, though, that Xiahou Yuan finally got some respect in that game, though he died WAY too early. Gameplay was a bit better than Kessen 1's, but it wasn't that good either. Kessen 3 had a pretty good blend. Story was historical for the most part up until Honnoji, though there were still a few minor things before it, like Hideyoshi's early appearance, Mitsuhide as Kicho's bodyguard when they were younger, etc. Gameplay was the best of the series, though many of the character models were a bit bland. As for whether there should be more historical focus, I would like it, though I'm sure others would think it boring, with no magic, rampages, etc. A good blend of historical focus and creative liberties is the best thing they can really do, which is why I think Kessen 3 was the best of the series. |
| |
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Kessen Series · Next Topic » |
5:18 PM Nov 5
