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Emo; The sub-culture and its impacts on society.
Topic Started: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:21 am (6,638 Views)
Tesouken
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but women work against it!

we need to find a way to trigger hostility between emos and women.
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Lulu
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Hmmm, I don't buy the "anyone over 20 doesn't understand the mind set"
Long, long, long ago, when Lu was a teenager.....before Emo's, even before goths; teenagers cut themselves and were emotional. As far as tight jeans....in the 80's that's what everyone wore >_< It was a painful time in the fashion world.

My son, who's not emo, but has emo friends corrects me often when I poke fun at emos....I know....horrible :( He reminds me, they are emotional. Katsuya Shouju Fujima brings up some very good points. And as far as I'm concerned, if mom is sitting at the door, worrying herself sick about you.......you should be kissing the damn floor at her feet, or you dad screams at you and then is just happy you're okay.....you need to re think your focus.

On the other hand, if you have your head smashed into the dryer three times a day for not cleaning out the lint filter (you'd think I would have remembered that....but oh no LOL) Or whipped with the belt 10 times for every five minutes you were late (thats a hell of a lot of beatings when you're late an hour>_<) Or not being able to sit in the same room as your step father (even if you had been good and unseen, in your room for days) Or having to eat the rest of your Christmas dinner and open your presents in your room because your stepfather informed the table that he couldn't eat with that "thing" (me incase you're wondering) sitting across from him. I didn't have a name to my stepfather, I was "it" or "thing". Was it frustrating, and hurt to the inner most of my being? Hell yes, to the point that one day I tore all the skin off my neck with my nails, I certainly didn't want the attention as much as I wanted to divert the pain in my heart to somewhere else.

Is Lu bitter about her childhood? No. Some of it sucked, but I learned very early to focus on what was right, not what was wrong. As well as know that there are so many people that have it a thousand times worse then me. I have many of the same friends now that I did back then and they are amazed at the kind loving person I am, despite all the crap I had to go through.

Life is what you make it!!!
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Red Knight
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I know that people wore tight jeans in the '80s, but those jeans were blue not black, and people(ie punks or hard-rockers) wore belts without weird spike things.

@Lulu: Whoa.

I think that if I have kids and they turn "emo"(if that trend still exists) I'll kick them out of my home and disown them, but not before paying for counselling and a lot of metal CDs,
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blaze_zero
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I think it's annoying that people have to label others or themselves just to make them different from each other.
I personally don't know anyone who is "emo" so I guess I'm not really sure what that all entails. I guess I've seen stuff about them on the interenets and stuff, but I take that with a large portion of sodium chloride and would rather judge someone on personally knowing them and not by some stupid title.
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Lulu
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Red Knight
Jun 2 2008, 10:31 AM
I know that people wore tight jeans in the '80s, but those jeans were blue not black, and people(ie punks or hard-rockers) wore belts without weird spike things.


You never met any of my friends LOL, but ya the clothes were a bit different then.
Quote:
 
@Lulu: Whoa.

It's all good now :)
I think though, because of my childhood/mostly teenage years, this is why I insist on enjoying life and having some of the hobbies I have, eg: gaming, editing, ect. I had to grow up fast, so now that I'm older, I enjoy being a kid ;)

But ya, attitude is everything :D It's surprising when you take the time to look at what's good, you realize, your life is not so bad.
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Astus
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Wow Lulu that was deep, the one thing that convinces me that you are over it and are a woman who is at peace with herself is the fact that you are so comfortable talking about it =)
I applaud you for sharing such painful memories, don't get me wrong I'm no sadist :P
It's just its nice of you to show that the road is not always dark and that some people need to evaluate and compare their lives with others before complaining about how bad their's is.
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CeriseBleue
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I've only bothered reading the first page as I don't have much time, so sorry if I repeat anything that's been said.


First of all, separate emos from cutting.
Emo is a fashion. Emo is not a way of life, no matter how much those little scene kids want to make you believe it.

Cutting; whole different matter.
Cutting is a mental problem. It can lead to depression or clues someone in. Suicide attempts are nothing to be laughing at. It could be the start of something much worse. Even if you think someone is cutting for attention, that need for attention shows a serious mental problem as well.
And if seriously, that person is just doing it for fun and to show off to her emo friends, she needs a good shake and a couple of slaps on the back of the head.

It is to occupy the mind away from all its troubles.
Like some people pinch themselves or carry an elastic band as a bracelet.

Not cowardice. Helpless.

As the friend of someone who has cut and has tried suicide, I feel strongly for those who see cutting as a laughing matter.

I wish people would stop seeing it as an emo trend.
None of the so called 'emos' I know cut.
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Red Knight
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I'm guessing that half the emo community are "scene kids", of course, they should find a better scene.

There are other ways of cluing people in without a person blading himself/herself. People who blade/cut just to fit in with their emo friends(and listen to MCR, FOB, P!ATD, AFI, etc) should just get a length of rope if they want to off/kill themselves so badly.

Define "helpless".
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Danion
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CeriseBleue
Jun 5 2008, 03:20 AM

Cutting; whole different matter.
Cutting is a mental problem. It can lead to depression or clues someone in. Suicide attempts are nothing to be laughing at. It could be the start of something much worse. Even if you think someone is cutting for attention, that need for attention shows a serious mental problem as well.
And if seriously, that person is just doing it for fun and to show off to her emo friends, she needs a good shake and a couple of slaps on the back of the head.

Not cowardice. Helpless.

As the friend of someone who has cut and has tried suicide, I feel strongly for those who see cutting as a laughing matter.


Mental problem? Well I guess idiocy can be classified as a mental problem.

Helpless? Everyone in Western society has atleast someone who they can trust or ask aid from. In other words, it's folly, cowardice. Not helplessnes.

So your friend thought he failed at life, so decided to commit suicide and then failed at doing that?
Jesus, he really does fail at life.
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Red Knight
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(high fives Danion)

If people are willing to try cutting themselves or attempt suicide, then they'd be just as willing to get help if the opportunity gets presented to them.

Actually, "emo" can be classed as a mental problem. It's like masochism, but emos cut to be loved.
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Mingchan
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Red Knight
Jun 9 2008, 03:16 PM
I'm guessing that half the emo community are "scene kids", of course, they should find a better scene.

There are other ways of cluing people in without a person blading himself/herself. People who blade/cut just to fit in with their emo friends(and listen to MCR, FOB, P!ATD, AFI, etc) should just get a length of rope if they want to off/kill themselves so badly.

Define "helpless".

It's Panic at the Disco now. Minus the exclamaition mark. And I doubt anyone would want to go kill themselves after listening to their new album, Pretty.Odd. Only probably their old fans. :lol:

I jsut thought I'd say, seeing as you mentioned it, that apparantly a girl killed herself after listening to MCR.
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Red Knight
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What song did the girl kill herself to, and how did she do it? See, MCR is bad, I mean if a girl kills herself then who knows.....
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Mingchan
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Jun 10 2008, 02:06 PM
What song did the girl kill herself to, and how did she do it? See, MCR is bad, I mean if a girl kills herself then who knows.....

I don't really know which song. My dad sorta mentioned it to my younger brother and I, while we were listening to the Black Parade (which is an awesome song, and so worthy to be made into a GMV!!).

MCR isn't THAT bad...I mean, I listen to it, and I don't grab a knife to slit myself.

My dad mentioned that she hanged herself though.
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Red Knight
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(That's because you seem like a well-adjusted person)

I'm guessing it was Helena.

I'm not saying that ALL emos aren't(or were) well adjusted people, it's just that most of them probably aren't.
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HustlerxXXx
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i dress like emo and have a hair like emo...but thats all..cuz cutting is just riddicilous...
and the only -WHY?- i dress like that is because there are much girls that love the emo look and they think thats hot :P and i dont even listen to the emo music...i listen to rap/hip-hop and alternative sometimes ^_^ aaand crying...wtF?..thats obnoxious :D
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Lu Su
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Jun 9 2008, 12:47 PM
(high fives Danion)

If people are willing to try cutting themselves or attempt suicide, then they'd be just as willing to get help if the opportunity gets presented to them.

Actually, "emo" can be classed as a mental problem. It's like masochism, but emos cut to be loved.

True, I think its a rather destructive and pointless way to deal with things as well. But there are multiple reasons why people do it. And originally, before all this generation and scene crap, people did it for a few reasons which has, needless to say, become highly distorted in recent years.

One ~ to remember the death (or life) of someone they were close to
Two ~ As a reminder of a personal folly or event they wish to learn from and not repeat. Its a means of self motivation. This helps them remember and have willpower to not be so foolish.
Three ~ They do it for personal reasons of either enjoying pain, and/or a way to vent stress, anger, and despair. More often than not, if their doing it for themselves, they want no sympathy or attention at all and prefer to keep it private.

The rest are your annoying scene kids. =P Just like the morons with perpetual hard-ons that never shut up about sex, or the apathetic group of self delusional hypocrits that we also must deal with. They are all of the same kidney, they just don't realize it.

But each has his own lot; unknown to the rest of us. We don't know what someone has been through nor do we know what best works for them to make them feel better. Everyone is different.

Also, Its one thing to 'cut', but another to pretend to attempt suicide and run around telling people about it. I know two people who have killed themselves for a number of reasons. There was no prior indication or warning as they were serious and didn't want to be stopped. Highly different from an attention seeker. Still though, I agree there are most certainly better ways of going about things and to this day I dearly miss them...

Also, it is prudent and essential to keep in mind that some people just don't care about much in life at all, so they are devoid of understanding the sincerity one can feel as well the sting of betrayal which may drive people to do things such as this. This may leave others highly perplexed why others do what they do and lead to easy judgment.

For the record, I prefer martial arts for stress, venting, and the like; and tattoos for symbols of who I am, etc.
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zacattack214
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As someone who qualifies as "emo," I think that most of you are missing the point. Self mutilation isn't about death or suicide--it's about freedom. I know I'm going to get mocked for saying that but whatever. Most people who cut themselves on a regular basis don't do it because they hate their life and they want to die--they do it because they see the material world as an illusion, and they are trying to ground themselves back into the most basics of reality. They don't see the world like you do, they see it as a creation of man--and man's world is endlessly flawed. Think about it this way... who decided the world had to be so complex? Who created these difficult to maintain governmental systems that all seem to be set to collapse? Why do we subject ourselves to such a miserable existence? They don't occur naturally, they aren't born from the earth. In reality, existence is simple--like nature. Cutting yourself helps you get back to that state of similicity, and it is in those moments that you find the most profound thoughts.

If it helps, think of it sort of like The Matrix. Most "cutters" see this world as a shell of the actual existence. To them, this world is not the only one out there, it is not absolute. They are not trying to kill themselves, but instead reach that point of enlightenment that allows them to see the world clealry for what it is. Compare cutting yourself, to Buddah starving himself to achieve enlightenment. Are they really that different? Looking at it as life and death distracts you from thinking outside the constrants of society. Who decided that death was the absolute end?

Cutting is similar to that feeling when you stare off into space and everything starts to get blurry and dreamlike--when you see past the solid and concrete aspects of this world, and even though everything is losing it's definition, it is somehow strangely clearer, simpler. It's that kind of euphoira.

For some, it is also a means of artistic expression. They consider blood to be the most intimate medium, the most organic.

I appologize for my jumbled thoughts, I may come back and organize them, or try to make them more coherent later. But for now, I'm just trying to get them down into the text box. :lol: So keep that in mind if you are going to quote me.

And for anyone who thinks that suicide is the "easy way out" or is a "pussy move," you have OBVIOUSLY never experienced the pain of slicing through your own flesh and veins, the very organs that give you life. You have never ripped into your own body--and felt that sense of both saddness and pain. You have never felt the agony of blood slowly draining out of your system--if feels like someone is taking ahold of your veins, wrapping them around their hand, and slowly pulling them out of your arm one at a time. Imagine having your whole head of hair stuck to a peice of fly paper, and every folical being ripped out--that is the kind of pain we are talking. You don't even know the meaning of the word pain. Don't criticize what you have never experianced.

Edit: This is idea is originally from early Hindu beliefs and is called asceticism. The meaning is a bit convoluted now, but it still holds the same basic premise.
Edited by zacattack214, Fri Feb 6, 2009 2:12 am.
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Red Knight
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How is self mutilation about freedom? If I wanted to see the world as an illusion, I'd start popping hallucinogens. Grounding yourself in reality by cutting? Okay, that's messed up, and I wouldn't call cutting enlightment, I'd call it stupid, I mean, is nihilism not good enough for "cutters"?

Well, I broke my leg when I was 11, and I had to wear an external fixator for 2 months, get the fixator removed, wear a cast for 2 months and then have 2 months of physical therapy because my foot couldn't bend that far after the cast got removed. That's painful, and I wouldn't like experiencing that level of pain on a daily basis.
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zacattack214
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Red Knight,Oct 9 2008
04:54 PM
How is self mutilation about freedom? If I wanted to see the world as an illusion, I'd start popping hallucinogens. Grounding yourself in reality by cutting? Okay, that's messed up, and I wouldn't call cutting enlightment, I'd call it stupid, I mean, is nihilism not good enough for "cutters"?

Well, I broke my leg when I was 11, and I had to wear an external fixator for 2 months, get the fixator removed, wear a cast for 2 months and then have 2 months of physical therapy because my foot couldn't bend that far after the cast got removed. That's painful, and I wouldn't like experiencing that level of pain on a daily basis.

Well I thought I was pretty clear on that part. But really, taking drugs and cutting yourself are not all that different. They are both self destructive behaviors used to attain a certain emotional or physical feeling. It's your choice of how you want to acheive that feeling--so by all means take the hallucinogens, your not going to be any better off.

I can't blame you for not wanting to experiance pain. But sometimes it helps to bring the pain you are feeling on the inside outward--to transfer the emotional pain into a physical one, because physical wounds heal faster. You have to feel the physical pain in order to let go of the other. I realize that it may seem like this contradicts what I said earlier, but it doesn't. It's like the feeling after having a wave crash over you, that inbetween where everything seem calm. It is not a pleasant feeling to cut yourself, but it is that inbetween that makes it so worth it.
Edited by zacattack214, Fri Feb 6, 2009 2:13 am.
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Red Knight
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If I take the hallucinogens I'd be having a trip instead of blood loss, the trip would be preferable. I don't do hallucinogens to get into a "state of enlightment", I listen to metal which is AWESOME.

Wouldn't transferring mental/emotional pain into physical pain be a bad thing? Talking about the emotional pain would probably help a lot more than transferance of pain. Stupid question but what would possess you to damage yourself just to get a "buzz"?
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zacattack214
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Red Knight,Oct 9 2008
08:11 PM
If I take the hallucinogens I'd be having a trip instead of blood loss, the trip would be preferable. I don't do hallucinogens to get into a "state of enlightment", I listen to metal which is AWESOME.

Wouldn't transferring mental/emotional pain into physical pain be a bad thing? Talking about the emotional pain would probably help a lot more than transferance of pain. Stupid question but what would possess you to damage yourself just to get a "buzz"?

You listen to metal. Um... maybe I'm just being dumb here, but how does that relate. That is sort of the opposite feeling that I am talking about.

Transferring pain is not a bad thing--it is actually very relieving. Talking about emotional pain is useless. Words are too limited to describe feelings fully, and trying just creates frustratation. I would never say that people cut themselves to get a "buzz". I think you are misinterpreting my words, or maybe I'm just not being clear enough. It's not the same feeling at all. It would compare more to the feeling of the crash after. But you can't think of it in such limited terms. It is a melancholy feeling, but it is also the closest feeling to true happienss. I would also caution you on using the word "damage." Granted it is a destructive behavior, but people who do it don't see it like that.

This does not apply to everyone, most people wouldn't get it--but I'm not talking about most people.
Edited by zacattack214, Fri Feb 6, 2009 2:13 am.
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Bai Xue
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zacattack214
Oct 9 2008, 12:12 AM
As someone who qualifies as "emo," I think that most of you are missing the point. Self mutilation isn't about death or suicide--it's about freedom. I know I'm going to get mocked for saying that but whatever. Most people who cut themselves on a regular basis don't do it because they hate their life and they want to die--they do it because they see the material world as an illusion, and they are trying to ground themselves back into the most basics of reality. They don't see the world like you do, they see it as a creation of man--and man's world is endlessly flawed. Think about it this way... who decided the world had to be so complex? Who created these difficult to maintain governmental systems that all seem to be set to collapse? Why do we subject ourselves to such a miserable existence? They don't occur naturally, they aren't born from the earth. In reality, existence is simple--like nature. Cutting yourself helps you get back to that state of similicity, and it is in those moments that you find the most profound thoughts.

If it helps, think of it sort of like The Matrix. Most "cutters" see this world as a shell of the actual existence. To them, this world is not the only one out there, it is not absolute. They are not trying to kill themselves, but instead reach that point of enlightenment that allows them to see the world clealry for what it is. Compare cutting yourself, to Buddah starving himself to achieve enlightenment. Are they really that different? Looking at it as life and death distracts you from thinking outside the constrants of society. Who decided that death was the absolute end?

Cutting is similar to that feeling when you stare off into space and everything starts to get blurry and dreamlike--when you see past the solid and concrete aspects of this world, and even though everything is losing it's definition, it is somehow strangely clearer, simpler. It's that kind of euphoira.

For some, it is also a means of artistic expression. They consider blood to be the most intimate medium, the most organic.

I appologize for my jumbled thoughts, I may come back and organize them, or try to make them more coherent later. But for now, I'm just trying to get them down into the text box.  :lol: So keep that in mind if you are going to quote me.

And for anyone who thinks that suicide is the "easy way out" or is a "pussy move," you have OBVIOUSLY never experienced the pain of slicing through your own flesh and veins, the very organs that give you life.  You have never ripped into your own body--and felt that sense of both saddness and pain. You have never felt the agony of blood slowly draining out of your system--if feels like someone is taking ahold of your veins, wrapping them around their hand, and slowly pulling them out of your arm one at a time. Imagine having your whole head of hair stuck to a peice of fly paper, and every folical being ripped out--that is the kind of pain we are talking. You don't even know the meaning of the word pain. Don't criticize what you have never experianced.

I have never cut myself with the intention of committing suicide.

Wouldn't have said anything but I found what you said here interesting.

A theory behind anorexia aligns with this same theory about cutting for freedom - an escape, a way to escape the material and reach the spiritual. I remember there was an 'air' diet on the news a couple of years ago. Thinking back on it, it probably relates to this want.

There's no way suicide is pussy. Even when I seriously attmpted to I could bring myself to I couldn't make myself bleed to death, I was going to use pills, and then I was going to, I couldn't bring myself to do it; i chickened out. Although ultimately I'm glad I am, it annoys me when people say it because they've obviously never felt the need to do such a thing, or they wouldn't criticise it.

edit: btw- (in reference to Lulu's post/childhood experience) I know that if it definitely wasn't for my upbringing that I never would've survived the abnormally large amount of bullying I received during my childhood and I probably wouldn't be alive today. Although I'm still more susceptible to relapsing into depression now, I never would've been as "ok" as I am now - I hope that sharing my experiences with others I can help them through their own trials; in this way I'm thankful for what I've gone through. If I was never bullied I bet I'd be a really nasty person, because I wouldn't know what hate is, or how to deal with it when it's being dished out to you.
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zacattack214
First Lieutenant
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Bai Xue,Oct 10 2008
06:00 AM

Wouldn't have said anything but I found what you said here interesting.

A theory behind anorexia aligns with this same theory about cutting for freedom - an escape, a way to escape the material and reach the spiritual. I remember there was an 'air' diet on the news a couple of years ago. Thinking back on it, it probably relates to this want.

There's no way suicide is pussy. Even when I seriously attmpted to I could bring myself to I couldn't make myself bleed to death, I was going to use pills, and then I was going to, I couldn't bring myself to do it; i chickened out. Although ultimately I'm glad I am, it annoys me when people say it because they've obviously never felt the need to do such a thing, or they wouldn't criticise it.

I would once again reference Buddha, who starved himself to achieve enlightenment, and say that there are probably some people who would do the same thing. But the air diet is something completely different. It's this diet that allows you to loose weight without altering your normal food intake in any way, but instead setting aside time in the day for "deep rhythmic breathing." The idea is that it will speed up you metabolism to help burn food faster.

It is an interesting idea though. If there was a diet in which you completely subsited on air, I would say that would be the very similar to this subject because it implies a spirital meaning behind it.

And thank you for backing me up on that other point, I felt like I wasn't getting it across very successfully. :)
Edited by zacattack214, Fri Feb 6, 2009 2:14 am.
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Bai Xue
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:S hmm, I know for sure that a diet of existing on only air alone has been taken up by some. I remember seeing it on the news; the 'creator' of it actually died a couple of months after the interview was aired from dehydration and malnutrition...

Someone I know once fasted for religious reasons for about 3 weeks or so, I can't remember for what reasons specifically, I don't know if he achieve any deeper enlightenment during the period, but I remember him saying he went past the point of hunger, but he hated the whole experience.

No problem. I think once people experience that sort of thing, they'd understand, otherwise... they won't ^^'
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l00mer
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Hitsugaya-taicho
Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:01 pm
Drugs are used mostly to make pain go away and usually physical...
actually, you'll find most people take drugs to have a laugh, enjoy
their time etc

trust me ;)

plus I also find all these attempted suicides teenagers are doing is a
very pathetic form of attention seeking, after all, they havent lived
long enough to realise what true bullsh*t really is.

I'm 16 and I've never even contemplated suicide, theres other forms
of release out there, go out with your friends (if you have any you
dirty self obsessed freak) and get hammered, have a joint now and
then, go skating or get laid or whatever you're into

and i'm not a big fan of emo's anyway

i'm your skinny jeans, curly haired skinny waster type (heaps ae fun)

p.s this post isnt meant to specifically offend anyone so sorry if it does

*edit* ok, i actually feel that i've been far too extreme here, sorry
Edited by l00mer, Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:41 pm.
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