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| WHY gamers dislike KOEI games in general?; Lets take an in depth look... | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 27 2008, 11:54 AM (2,995 Views) | |
| Devilsking | May 10 2009, 04:18 PM Post #101 |
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Ieyasu is BACK! - Gangsta Style.
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It´s just the way we humans are. We tend to love, were others hate. I´m a fan of Dynasty Warriors, so I just shake my head when I read another game review for it, read repetitive, 5.9 and then see a 9.0 for the X-thousand Guitar Hero game or for the new WoW expansion. But other people who don´t know Dynasty Warriors, read the review and are influenced by that and won´t even try the game. Every game is repetitive in some way and there are other company´s that try to squeeze every last drop of money out of one franchise *cough*CAPCOM*cough**cough*Megman*cough**cough*Namco*cough*Soul Claibur IV*cough* But more and more people talk the crap they hear and read and so influence others. That let´s KOEI stand there as a repetitive-game-making company that only milks. So a big part goes to the habbit of people disliking things, without even trying them or just taking opinions of others as their own, without even thinking about it. Though I have to admit, KOEI is responsible for the milking part themselves. It´s very extreme. Shame on you, KOEI. I know you have to make money, but what you´ve done the last years, was just over the top. |
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| Kai | May 10 2009, 05:06 PM Post #102 |
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Iga Ninja
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Yeah, no doubt about it about repetitive gameplay, the waste of money etc. When I buy a KOEI game, I die a little inside. I bought Dynasty Warriors 4 for the price of 39£, when it first came out. I finished everyone's Musou Mode in about 4 days... It urged me to buy Dynasty Warriors 4 XL, also which was a waste of money. I honestly have to say, most of the games KOEI make are not worth it at all but I guess I like the cheesy gameplay. KOEI games remind me of movie based games, they suck because after you complete it there isn't anything to do. As a keen gamer, I have to say that nearly all my other games are much better than the KOEI games. My brother always tell me the DW and SW games I have are a waste of money, but I don't listen. The only thing that keeps the kindle of the flame for these games for me, is hope that KOEI would someday make a good sound game that you can play for months on end. I honestly think KOEI sucks at making games, they need to get new ideas and take their fans into consideration, I don't know any other games that force you to get expansions to make you feel like you did a good thing in buying the game(s). I always say this, KOEI need to get real and make a game worthy of some recognition, none of my friends know about KOEI games, if they do it is either through going to my house of playing it at some other guys house. The ratings are really poor, they have never won any awards or anything - in general they suck, and I get a little annoyed just saying that. It is AMAZING how KOEI managed to be the first people to bring games about Romance of the Three Kingdom and the Sengoku Period to PlayStation, Xbox and PC, but they can't even make a decent game from it. It isn't about the funds, it is about how far they are willing to go. I guarantee if they molded the content of Empires and XL into the normal game, they would make a profit, and get better reviews. Other Japanese games are Godly - Final Fantasy, Tekken, Street Fighter. Why are they Godly? Because of the effort put into creating them, KOEI rush their games just to make money. What made KOEI games good was their unique gameplay, only recognized by a small few. Now they need to take some ideas and get inspiration for other games... They just need to reach out to a wider audience. What I can see is, after SW4 and DW7. Nobody will buy their games anymore.
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| Tempest | May 10 2009, 06:16 PM Post #103 |
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The Great Master Tempest
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Me and my brother said the same thing. It sucks because games like madden, guitar heros, and castle crasher are even more repetitive then koei games. I just read gamespot review on DWG2 and half the stuff they said was not true: "Just like last year"- DWG came out in 2007 and DWG2 came out in 2009. Plus the gameplay changed in terms of deadlocks, new SP, new mobile suits, new modes, and other factors "Bad graphic"- the game could have looked better but I seen worst. "Bad VA"- some of the voices were from the show. "Even more boring with a friend"- All I have to say to this is It seem all gamespot grade are for the fan rather then the companies.
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| the glorious sun jian | May 11 2009, 07:23 PM Post #104 |
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IT IS TIME TO CUT DONG ZHOU,S HEAD and DRINK IT,S BLOOD
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I agree .. KOEI's policy largely changed after they were successfull with DW2 .They released DW3 which was great and then they released their greatest DW game ever which is DW4 .Sales were very high with DW4 , so they changed their policy to : work for 7 update the game and release it under a another name , update it and release it under another name .Sales were still high with DW5 its expansions . It is not KOEI to be blamed .The fans , however are to be blamed for buying the same thing over and over again , yet they seem to love buying the same thing again and again .So, KOEI is able to make alot of money with a small budget .Video games companies don't care about reviews or scores .They care about sales . I am not saying anything against the fans who love KOEI untill now and are ready to support it for the next 100 DW games in the coming 20 years .They love KOEI .And if you don't then try something else .For me KOEI has died in the day the stopped releasing ROTK games . |
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| Xalfrea | May 12 2009, 02:53 AM Post #105 |
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Organization XIII's Number XV
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No matter how many times fans agree that Koei is really under the gutter, they still buy the games anyway, evidenced by here, Gamefaqs and other boards. It's like we all have a Koei impulse or something. |
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| lisu-chan | May 16 2009, 11:02 AM Post #106 |
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Soldier
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Here in the Netherlands it's quit simple! It's a very underground/unknown series. But all the people who played it (because I drag my PS2 and game everywhere, when there's a birthday party etc etc) really like the games. Repetitiveness... is in almost every game, but people need something of a reason to say why they don't like it. *shrug* I would get bored real quick if I only played KOEI games! It's the same as listening to a whole cd of certain bands\singers, after the fourth song or so you don't like it anymore because they all sound a like. But put several of those songs on a cd with other bands in between, and they all sound really good! Do I make sense? Edited by lisu-chan, May 16 2009, 11:02 AM.
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| ShadowOfBushido | Nov 9 2009, 05:53 AM Post #107 |
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暗い光の指揮官
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Because it doesn't have a good in depth storyline and the gameplay isn't like DMC. they don't even give them a chance |
![]() 私は天空の影である 私は私の…邪魔をするすべては王朝の戦士、武士の戦士および戦士Orochiで落ちる殺し、 REST IN PEACE MICHAEL JACKSON! You'll always be the best, always be the KING of pop. | |
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| Xalfrea | Nov 9 2009, 06:01 AM Post #108 |
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Organization XIII's Number XV
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Sometimes I wonder why Koei doesn't actually make an effort with these. As huge of a fan as I am, I ponder on how Koei seemed to be well liked in the DW3 days, but now is the subject of ridicule and joke. In Japan, most definitely, Koei is a well liked company, but practically elsewhere, Koei's like the kid constantly being picked on at school. |
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| Jsun | Nov 9 2009, 06:13 AM Post #109 |
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Site Webmaster
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The reason WHY KOEI games are disliked by gamers in the West is because they simply do not have the same appeal. Sports and Shooting games are pretty much #1 in America and the UK. Japan is exactly opposite of America in terms of the kinds of games most people play. Over there it's like RPG games and dating sims. That is why KOEI games have low sales here. Plus the games are about Asian history. The interest in Asia has certainly grown among Americans, but KOEI games are made so cheap and without effort that it almost feels like you're playing some generic game. |
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| KauSu | Nov 9 2009, 09:29 AM Post #110 |
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Ike's owner
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I'd say, what's getting me to start getting annoyed at DW is the amazingly non-historic content in the "History based game", I know. It's just a game and all, but they should mention that it's based on a NOVEL that's based on HISTORY. Not directly based on history. And yeah, that does make a huge difference for any gamer with over 2 functional brain cells. - end of rant Edited by KauSu, Nov 9 2009, 09:37 AM.
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| Xalfrea | Nov 9 2009, 10:08 AM Post #111 |
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Organization XIII's Number XV
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For the average gamer, no one would give a crap about whether or not its historical. In fact I remember one reviewer saying in a DW6 review "You take the role of some random chinese butcher". |
ORGANIZATION XIII![]() Crimsondramon wins again. Thanks for the sig! BB Senshi Sangokuden kit status: 29 gundams, currently missing 7 Coming soon: New Super Mario Bros Wii review | |
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| strategist_jeffo | Nov 9 2009, 10:46 AM Post #112 |
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All is according to heaven's decree
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My reason why people dislike DW/SW: They make the reviewer's opinion into their own. If the reviewer says it's just lame game that everyone should forget and just go play CoD, everyone listens to it. Not to mention the pretty poor graphics is a point of critics. My friend said it like: - "It scores mediocre 6/10's" - "Square tigers and soldiers" - "Hardly anything realistic coming off of it" - "AI is set on brainless stupidity" The worst thing is, they are right. These Koei games ARE mediocre games with poor graphics and bad AI. That doesn't take away that nobody ever plays that game. |
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| Xalfrea | Nov 9 2009, 10:49 AM Post #113 |
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Organization XIII's Number XV
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It makes me wonder, while we indeed realize that these Koei games are flawed...why do we, gamers who know such things, still continue playing them? And your right, when people do reviews, they believe anything. Thus is the power of Mass Media. |
ORGANIZATION XIII![]() Crimsondramon wins again. Thanks for the sig! BB Senshi Sangokuden kit status: 29 gundams, currently missing 7 Coming soon: New Super Mario Bros Wii review | |
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| strategist_jeffo | Nov 9 2009, 10:51 AM Post #114 |
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All is according to heaven's decree
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Well, the reason why we play this game is because we know it's fun to play. I guess we are used to the somewhat poor graphics, so it doesn't matter anymore. Aslong as we're having fun, right? |
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| Xalfrea | Nov 9 2009, 10:55 AM Post #115 |
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Organization XIII's Number XV
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Then these are what I consider "cult hits", games that a marginally select few like. You could say, they are guilty pleasures. Outside Japan of course. There are probably a lot of people in Japan who like Koei games so much. Why else would they go through the trouble of hiring Gackt for SW3, or with Gundam Musou 2 hitting top charts there? I wouldn't be surprised if in Japan, NBA Live, or other EA Sports games are extremely disliked there. The problem with Jsun's statement is the fact that games made in Japan CAN be liked in the US. Mario? Legend of Zelda? Street Fighter? Final Fantasy? Nintendo, Square-Enix and Capcom are the largest examples of those who both reign in the east and the west. So why can't Koei try? Are they just afraid of the competition or is their focus Japan only? |
ORGANIZATION XIII![]() Crimsondramon wins again. Thanks for the sig! BB Senshi Sangokuden kit status: 29 gundams, currently missing 7 Coming soon: New Super Mario Bros Wii review | |
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| SJFaith | Nov 9 2009, 02:14 PM Post #116 |
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KOEI Warriors Faction Founder & KOEI Game Promoter
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Some gamers just love to jump to conclusions without properly obvserving the game they're looking at. The main problem for the latest Warriors game SW3 is the fact it's on the Wii only i'm not saying that's a bad thing because of the console it's on it's just some Wii gamers won't look twice as it may not grasp their attention as they will probably see other well known Wii games being a better choice although us KOEI gamers will play it regardless of what console it's on. However when this gets reviewed by both Game and Fan Critics i expect a heavy amount of Wii bashing comments on it especially from the ones at Gamespot
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| SmitanSaxon | Nov 9 2009, 02:58 PM Post #117 |
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Nothing is true, everything is permitted
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Repitition all the way, and not just in gameplay either but the series itself. But if you think about it every video game is repetitive to a degree. You do realize Koei practicaly remake DW with each installment. But the biggest flaw is lack of innovation. It wasn't until DW6 that Koei decided to do something different, even though they didn't do much. DW3 and DW4 actually are considered decent games by the critics, however lack of innovation ruins the series for future games. Think about it, in a way you are playing basically the same game. I'm not saying they're bad but that is the criticism I hear. And I can see where they are coming from. Also the series in general isn't that appealing to Westerners. Whats the differece between DW and other highly popular action games? Blood, gore, good graphics, multiplayer, etc. If you look at it that way you can see DW doesn't meet their interest. But I still like the games as they are. |
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| Cerebral Assassin | Nov 9 2009, 03:12 PM Post #118 |
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From now on, I will lead the Uesugi and my name will be Kenshin!
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Well, if we talk about Koei's games, I suppose we shouldn't just looking at the Musou series. Remember that they had other franchises like Kessen, DT, NA, and ROTK. The Musou series is repetitive, it is true. I haven't play a Warriors game for almost 3 months. I prefer the other series, cause you really can see the improvement. NA: Iron Triangle is different than the previous (Rise To Power), but the improvement is really seen. The same is seen with the three Kessen titles. Why people said that Koei's games are bad, probably because the Musou series is the one that becomes Koei's cash cow. Some don't realize that Koei have games that, in my view, superior to the Musou franchise. |
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| Skode | Nov 9 2009, 09:16 PM Post #119 |
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Scottish Samurai
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Sure Madden and Guitar Hero games are as if not more repetetive than these games in regards to the gameplay but there is a massive difference in appeal with the western market. The reviews can relate straight away as they can be instantly familiar with the songs they are playing or the team they are playing with but those not familiar with the 3K novel or the history which inspired these games then they are not going to relate unless they give the games a chance. Few do as they get a couple of days with each game before moving on and having to do likewise with other games. I myself for example just couldnt get around to liking DW GUNDAM first time round... i mean it was the same love familiar gameplay to me as the other DW games but not being familair with the characters in the game and how they relate to one another meant it was hard to me to care for teh plot and its development of the characters involved. It was only taking this small experience of the first game and the varied bios in it that when i got the second game i loved it and recognised at least most of the cast and they were better developed at least where their personalities were concerned. I stuck with it as i love the Warrior games... had i not been a fan already i would not have gave the second game a look - as such i can understand the general lack of favour for the games in the western market. Even hardened Eastern series of RPGs struggle remember in favour of western ones... why? because even though like all RPGs they need to be introduced to the characters etc but they are more happy to do so with western loved formats such as the shoot em up Mass Effect over the OTT RPG cliche filled Star Ocean. Both great games but not ideal for all markets and its the same for the Warriors games. I just hope KOEI keep doing what they do and release the games over here for the fans which do love them - im seeing too many games as of late becoming limited to only certain consoles and certain regions. I guess Strikeforce will be the next big major step to seeing if the Western market can take a liking to them... the very reason for this is simple as it accomodates a very key area for western games and thats online play :cool:. Those kinds of games are still pretty niche on next gen consoles over here competing only with the likes of Kingdom Under Fire:Circle of Doom so if done well it could really raise the awareness of KOEI as a company. |
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| wildcard | Nov 10 2009, 09:34 AM Post #120 |
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The one... the amazing... the powerful... ME!
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I think most just don't see the appeal of games like this. Also, if they are going to play a hack & slay game, then they want something with a BIG name, like Devil may Cry. You also must not forget, that in the back of their mind they also want something to talk with their friends about or people on the net. Thus they choose stuff that people just HAVE to know, and if it's in name-terms only. Or they go with the "if so many people play and love this game, it just HAS to be good". It's similar to the anime scene. Whenever there is some sort of hype on some anime series, you just HAVE to know it and SHOULD know the basics about it. And heaven forbid you might not like it and be honest about it or like something that noone else does/knows. Then of course it has to be because you have poor taste. Nah, in fact, I think the mainstream just goes for what is promoted well and in terms of promoting, sorry, Koei is just at the lowest of the low, at least in Germany & Austria. I've never EVER seen ANY kind of promotion here about Koei games in the first place. Also the fact that Koei doesn't seem to give any regards to fans outside japan... London EXPO excluded. I agree that some of the older installments were pretty repetitive - I'm thinking of DW 4 here for example. DW 5 won me over for having at least unique endings for every character. I guess I also kind of disliked that I could just head straight for the 'boss', kick his ass and be done with the stage. That's why, when SW1 was released, I thought they did a major step up. The mission system was kind of what I was looking for and the fact that just rushing up to take the boss' head was possible most of the time without seriously risking getting defeated oneself also rose the playability, as did the many dialogues telling the story. I however also think, that it's partly true what has been said about some players just prefering fictional settings. As to why all those soccer games and the like are repeatly bought... Well, I partly understand singstar, guitar hero and the linkes, as they do make up nice party games... On the sports and shooter-section thought... I'm absolutly clueless. I think it might be once again 'because everyone knows it' stuff. Aside from that, gamers most likely DO compare the graphics of the 'name games' like FF and stuff and when they than look at the Koei stuff... Just like in politics, the one that wins is the one that managed to blind the people with pretty visuals and great speeches and promises. I've got to admit, if I hadn't been looking for a multi-player game years ago, I probably wouldn't have picked up DW4 back then either, but after I did, I also bought DW 3 & 2 and after that all new games being released. DW6 was the only one that I sold without playing it completly through, because it was exactly what I didn't like: Beautiful stunning visuals, but the rest was less than satisfying and NOT AT ALL what I expected from the series. I did, however, enjoy the Empire installment of it. I'm glad thought that I am no longer forced to wait for EU releases and can import from US if the game makes it there, as due to the few people knowing the game releases don't have a good chance. But I think it's starting to get better already. I've found a larger group knowing the series and am doing my best to 'corrupt' others into giving the game a chance. Most of them have ended up liking it very much... and borrowing/hooking MY games for a while -.- |
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| StrikeForce9 | Nov 14 2009, 01:26 PM Post #121 |
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Is That All You Got?
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I think some people don't find Koei games interesting. I mean the Three Kingdoms era and Sengoku era are interesting and all but Koei hardly makes their games that appealing to gamers who aren't history buffs. Some people just don't like hack'n slash action genre especially the Koei type. Even for action genre gamers, Koei games aren't that appealing for many reasons. Poor AI, dated graphic and simple mechanics just don't do much to compete against the like of God of War, Ninja Gaiden or DMC where the graphics and plots are more superior and gameplay is more challenging. |
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| Ghost Of Da Qiao | Nov 14 2009, 04:03 PM Post #122 |
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The Demented Chocoholic
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Pricisely why I discontinued buying Koei games as soon as I noticed the lack of effort and creativity they use in their games now. Koei's games are indeed repetetive but if they combined creative intelligence they could make every game really amazingly unique. What I don't understand is I have noticed people buy Koei's latest games anyway. If that is the case, shouldn't they be having high sales? And if they really aren't having high sales, why do they keep reproducing the same kind of games anyway? Edited by Ghost Of Da Qiao, Nov 14 2009, 04:03 PM.
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| alilsketchy | Nov 20 2009, 08:25 PM Post #123 |
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Sergeant
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I have heard reviews say that the game is repetitive, but KOEI never really had a choice when it came to the whole "beat-em-up" concept. You fight an army, and defeat the ruler to win the stage. That's all you can really do in this game. It's about a war in a novel, for christ's sakes. What else do they really need to make the gameplay better? Another problem is the fanbase. Asian countries find this game quite popular, but many Western gamers think otherwise. It's because of what Western gamers want in a game, and apparently, it's blood and gore. That's how Mortal Kombat was so popular at the time, and even Kingdom Under Fire: The Crusaders, a game a lot like Dynasty Warriors, had overall positive reviews, especially on Gamespot (great strategy and the fact it was based on elves and orc also played a big role). Should Dynasty Warriors add blood? Definitely no. Even though I live in the U.S., I don't see how Western Gamers are so attracted to that? It's pretty weird in my opinion. Personally, the commands are a bit bland to me and need some changes, but I'll admit. I do buy every installment, because I was a big fan of Dynasty Warriors since Dynasty Warriors 1. I think KOEI should experiment in other genres as well, while keeping the Warriors games as it is, with developments here and there. Edited by alilsketchy, Nov 20 2009, 08:50 PM.
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| Bodybuilder | Nov 20 2009, 11:41 PM Post #124 |
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General
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Well you comapred the repetitivness of DW to GH. I think this is because GH provides a much harder challenge than DW. In DW all you do is press a couple buttons simulatinously while in for example GH there are much more combinations. I like playing DW/SW for maybe like an hour and then I get really bored and have to turn off the console. Even though there fun, KOEI games don't provide a good challenge and are EXTREMELY repetitve. |
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