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| Homosexuality | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sat May 24, 2008 6:10 am (11,345 Views) | |
| zacattack214 | Wed Oct 8, 2008 12:22 am Post #101 |
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First Lieutenant
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It really isn't anyone else's business who you love and who you have sex with. I don't see why society acts like same sex relationships are an abomination. To me it's like saying a white man can't love a black girl or visa-versa. Also, religion should never be used as an excuse to spread hate. If you think it is, then you are missing the fundemental idea behind it all. Let people love who they want. It is a matter that doesn't concern you, so leave it alone. Now I will say I am against the gay male and lesbian stereotypes--that I think gays tend to mold themselves to fit. Gay males in particular seem exceedingly less genuine than most other people. They put of this facade of femininity, and it just doesn't work--it actually completely backfires. It makes them extremely awkward. I don't know anyone who doesn't feel uncomfortable around them. They come off as completely fake. When they go around calling each other "girlfriend" and using words like "delicious" and "fabulous", I just roll my eyes. It's like they want to draw attention to themselves. That's what I am against, the stereotypical gay male who acts more like a 12 year old girl than a real woman does. Honestly, what is appealing about that? It makes sense if that is who you are, but if that is so... I feel deeply sad for you, because you will never mature into a healthy adult. I know plenty of gays who are just like normal people--some are more feminine than others, but they don't go around "flaunting it" as most gays do. Like 'Hey look at me, I act like a girl to get attention.' It just disgusts me that anyone would want to be that fake. When did they become so plastic? I think that is where the choice comes in--you can't choose who you are attracted to, but you can choose how you act and how you portray yourself. That doesn't include transgenderal people. They are something else entirely. Disclaimer: Religion is a different discussion entirely and I am not going to go into it now. But if ask youself this, who created your RELIGION? And "God" is not the right answer. He definatley did NOT write/manufacture the bible. |
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| Jasonic | Wed Oct 8, 2008 12:34 am Post #102 |
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Justice!
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I dont want to be brought back into this one bit, thus I am not saying anything on the matter. Just going to reply to the fact that this stupid movie you brought up called Latter Days. Havent even heard of it untill you said it, so I checked out a trailer of it. A dumb second rate Hollywood movie, that I gurantee you had no mormons that worked with the movie or probably even saw it for that rate. But I find it offensive. Check from 1:06 to 1:14, no way in hell is a mother going to react like that, if she did, then she better confront her own problems before worrying about her son. And having that room of church officials, while he sit in a chair in the middle, and it being a dark room, making the religion look evil like that. No way in hell would a matter like that ever be confronted like that was. And saying that he brought shame upon the church................, I dont even know how to respond to that of how offensive and untrue that is. It looks like the village elders meeting in "The Village". We especially never look down on people like that and demean them as shown. Absolutely horrible, im sick of how Hollywood portrays the LDS church and how they make everyone believe what they show is true. If you want to watch a good true Mormon movie then watch "the Best Two Years". whatever, no one will ever understand, especially on a forum. *leaves topic and never comes back to it*edit: Oh, video link, forgot to paste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcmoGmYI5JA |
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| Bai Xue | Wed Oct 8, 2008 12:38 am Post #103 |
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Didn't make it into history
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no!! that's not it at all. *sighs* why would I (or anyone else, for that matter) hate people who sin when I sin myself? I have addictions I can't toss either, and I hate it. I'm not saying homosexuality is an addiction, but it's the closest personal experience I have to relate to. ok, I'm sorry for not being clear on the priest bit. I'd feel the same if they were molesting girls, and I'm sure some do, but for some reason the media never broadcasts it. Whether boy or girl, molesting is wrong, full stop. I actually have asked myself the question before. I know it isn't as conscious a thought as that for many though (even so I didn't quite know straight away). Then I guess seeking acceptance is the one thing that homosexuals and religious people both seek. After all, isn't it what everyone wants? Maybe this day will come. I'm sorry that I've angered you, and I've probably angered others. But the challenge was thrown for some people generally against homosexuality to speak up, so I did. |
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| Miho | Wed Oct 8, 2008 1:18 pm Post #104 |
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♥ Iииσ¢єи¢є ♥
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I ask myself that question all the time, yet sinners will still show hate onto other sinners. You only have to look back at previous topics on the Homosexuality. Christianity is ALWAYS brought up, normally with the Christians themselves using it as a justification to their dislike for gay people. I guess a lot of youths that have that opinion are brought up in a Christian house hold, so I can understand that, but I still don't see how it gives anyone the right to discriminate. Christians who are in the media just seem to love ruining homosexuals lives. Opposing the same-sex marriage, protesting to gay couples adopting, why would they do that if not for hate? Why would they want to ruin their lives just because they've apparently 'sinned'(according to a small book which, in actual fact, wasn't even written by Jesus himself) I myself believe in god, and Jesus. I believe Jesus was a very spiritual man and healer, whether he was the son of god? I don't know. But I do believe in god, but the god I imagine isn't Christian, Jewish, Muslim or any organised religion. I am very anti-organised religion, mainly thanks to the fact of them all discriminating towards homosexuality. But the way I see the bible and the kharan etc, is just a mass form of hypnosis and control. The disciples are the one who wrote the bible, all with their own agenda. There are so many lies and twisted fact in the bible it's ridiculous. High positioned priests and government bodies are the ones who chose what made it into the bible. One of the main lies that come to my mind is the story of Mary Magdalene, who was told to be a Prostitute for many years, and then the church came out and fessed up to lying about it. That made me chuckle, and also makes me wonder what else they need to 'fess up' about. Another reason I’m against religion is looking back in history, so so many of the catastrophes that have plagued this world have been spurred by religion, 'All in the name of god' so to speak. Also with Boxers. They beat the crap out of some other guy, all in the name of god. I mean seriously, why would god want you to beat a fellow man in his name? It disgusts me that people use his name in such vain ways, justifying their disgusting actions. Going back to the lying and twisting part of the bible, one of the main stories used against homosexuals is the Sodom and Gomorrah story, well, the way they twist it is just hilarious. They make out that the men of the city rape the angels because they're gay---Wrong. They're simply violent thugs and rapists who don't want the angles there. I mean, there are other stories in the bible of men raping women, should they not also be shunned, due to the fact they're Straight and raping someone? Sexuality shouldn't even come into the equation of rape or molesting, because it has nothing to do with it. --- Back to your post, yes of course. Molesting is disgusting and wrong, I wasn't denying that fact. Of course some people do, many straight men and women have experimented, but in the end they KNOW they're straight, and that's the difference. They do not decide whether to be one or the other, they simply figure out for themselves. Did you actually make a choice to be straight? Or is it just what felt more natural to you? Because being gay is natural to me and many others, just the same as being straight is natural to you. It's not a brain dysfunction or illness, it's a sexuality. People are afraid of change, or something different. Maybe religion should learn to rejoice these differences in people, rather then look down upon them. You can only receive acceptance if you give acceptance. I'd have no problem with organised religion if not for the fact of them throwing stones at anyone their 'book' tells them not to accept. Saying that, I still don't understand how/why someone would want to live to how an old book tells them, but that's me, I personally wouldn't do it, but if Christians want to then go ahead. The only time I have a problem with you, is if you have a problem with me and my life style, which is often the case with religion. |
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| The Outsider | Wed Oct 8, 2008 8:19 pm Post #105 |
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The Demon's Rival
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I think that pretty much says it how it is to be honest. |
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| Bai Xue | Thu Oct 9, 2008 12:08 am Post #106 |
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Didn't make it into history
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yeah, i hate it how it happens. Using christianity (or any religion) as an excuse to hate people is wrong. It just makes the follower look horrible, and the religion look horrible. I myself have the view that the people who penned the Bible over the years were guided by god (e.g John wrote Reveltion after receiving a vision). Guess that sounds prety crazy, huh? Oh well. But, as much as the Bible gets use, twisted, and taken out of context, it also has many useful teachings, such as to love your enemy, bless those that curse you etc. so using the very same religion as an excuse just to hate on people because they've sinned or whatever is sad. I honestly don't know how they could prove or disprove the Magdalene story, I'm not even sure if her being a prostitute is a point worth arguing over, in my opinion. ugh yes, the Salem Witch Trials come to mind. That was messed up. What? I've never heard this version of men raping angels in Sodom and Gomorrah. I've just known of the violent thugs and rapists who didn't want the angels there. No, being straight felt more natural to me. People saying that homosexuality is a disease are stupid. Reminds of me of something my grandpa and my current pastor have said -"I hate religion!" While they still follow the Bible and teachings, they don't like the formality of it all, the (desperate?) move of getting in live bands, smoke machines, lights etc to try and attract an audience. They don't understand how priests and popes are needed to talk to God and seek forgiveness for you when you can do it yourself. They believe it really detracts from the important thing - building a personal relationship with God. And I agree. I've taken on their ieda of not casting away anyone just because of who they are or what they do, in effort to be a shoulder to lean on, of sorts. After all, if we turned our backs on those who needed it, we're just damaging ourselves; like throwing stones that break on impact and we get hit by our own debris. Back to the topic on hand, there's an increasing amount of pastors and christian leaders who aren't straight. Perhaps the idea of being against homosexuality will break down. I guess we'll wait and see. |
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| Miho | Thu Oct 9, 2008 3:05 pm Post #107 |
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♥ Iииσ¢єи¢є ♥
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Well we could carry this conversation on forever. Like mentioned earlier, neither of us are really going to change our views or opinions, so there's not much point both of us banging our heads together much longer
.Both the Mary Magdalene and Sodom and Gomorrah stories are quite complex, and many people have very different opinions on them. But i'm pretty sure it was one single pope who shared his opinion on Magdalene, saying she was a prostitute, that spakred her being called 'The Saint Of Sinners.' Then, back in 1969, the churches confessed to lying about it. As for Sodom and Gomorrah, i'm quite certain the men of the towns did rape the angels. It also had incest in that story, if i'm not mistaken. Lot had sex with his virgin daughters to reproduce children I believe. It's the same thing, really. Knowing you're straight, or it feeling more natrual, in the end you knew you were straight. That's how it is for gay people. Being gay is completely natrual to me. I don't know how many times homosexuals have to say it, but- I did not choose to be gay. Well I certainly agree. I'm all for believing in god, all i'm against is the mass control of organised religion. I'm a huge believer in god and Jesus, but I don't think I need to go to church on a sunday morning to connect with him. If I want to speak to god, or to pray, I can just do so in my own room, my own personal space. But anyway, like I said first of all, this debate is hardly getting anywhere and probably won't in the near future. But atleast it calmed down. I respect your opinions and way of life, and I hope you respect mine as well. |
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| Bai Xue | Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:39 am Post #108 |
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Didn't make it into history
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agreed
hmm I might look into the Sodom and Gomorrah stories now. I haven't read it in a while... :ashamed: I never thought about it that way before you pointed it out, honestly. How embarassing... yeah, you don't have to wait until Sunday to have a chat with Him. Although it says it's important to fellowship about God and keep the Sabbath holy, it definitely doesn't have to be restritcted to that. In fact it's propbably the people who pray and worship in their own time as well that become the closest to God Definitely For sure I respect your way of life. Thankyou also for the lesson in humility and in being careful in saying things ^^' See you around
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| Lone Wolf | Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:21 am Post #109 |
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First Lieutenant
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Are you kidding me? you think a human could have a chance to do that to an angel? those angels were actually sent there to destroy the cities, that said, just think about what would happen between an encounter with a human vs an angel, the men did wanted to rape them, but the angels made them go blind, maybe you should read that story again(And that Lot guy was a jerk, he even offered his daughters to those men) Anyway, I believe love between the same sex can exist, but I see homosexuality as a mental disease rather than something normal, I love my best friend but its not that kind of love, he's like a brother to me, there's little things I wouldn't do for him, but its too bad homosexuality has corrupted the love between the same sex, its like the only way you can love someone from your same sex is if youre gay, or maybe thats just for guys, I don't know about girls... I don't hate gay people, even though all the experiences I've had with them are bad ones, it has happened to me more than once that some gay dude has a crush on me and gets obsessed, and even more so when he finds out that I'm straight, its like they want to make you gay, but I know not all of them are like that... Right? Anyway, I can't support homosexuality, it has no purpose and it goes against my beliefs, I can understand to some point that you don't chose to be gay though, but I do know that its a reversible state of mind, and those christian gay-haters out there are a shame to the rest of us, don't think that we are all like that, those guys are just morons... You are supposed to love one another, not go bashing other people and spreading hate, if you think they are wrong then find a way to help them, share the love of Christ with them instead of giving the rest of us a bad name. (Its quite a long post uh? not a lot of people is going to read it I know, but thats my opinion.) |
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| Bai Xue | Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:39 am Post #110 |
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Didn't make it into history
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ah, that was it! (didn't get a chance to look Sodom + Gomorah up but that sounds familiar... will still double check anyway) :S I wouldn't say disease but maybe a genetic/chemical difference, or it can come from various influential social reasons/interactions etc. I was chatting with my mum and she pointed out how some men are more feminine than others, and suggested this (again an obvious thing, but I never thought of it. Why am I not thinking!?). (bold writing) Yes, please don't
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| Lone Wolf | Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:28 am Post #111 |
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First Lieutenant
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Thats a good point, I've had 2 friends who only had sisters (One had 4 sisters and the other 2) and the one with 2 sisters was quite feminine, he would even walk like a girl, it was ummm... Interesting, he wasn't gay though, at least as far as I know, while the other who had 4 sisters was just a regular guy, he had a girlfriend and all, so what caused the other to become more feminine? I wouldn't know. |
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| Godlikephoenix | Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:16 am Post #112 |
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Mercenary General
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everyones chemical buildup is quite different to each other's so some people would be more susceptable to influence than others, the one who you said was quite feminine, he must be quite easily influenced...not that it is a bad thing though, and the one with the 4 sisters, but not affected by it, that just shows that the way he is makes him less prone to certain influences, again, not a bad thing, it just shows an induviduality
about the religion veing used in a means to hate, i think that those who do that perhaps just have some underlying problems in their own life that they cant really deal with so they lash out others who seem to be an easy target. Im not a very religious person, so i cant speak for any religions, but i do know enough about quite a few to know that there are far too many loop holes in their arguments against homosexuals for them to actually hold up, but somehow people believe what they say, and it just doesnt end Also, about that statement earlier about furthering the population...i dont get that, the world's population is absolutely massive, is the world's resources just isnt enough to support that many people as it is, so i dont see how furthering the population any more is actually going to be doing any help, and who cares if at least half the population is homosexual, theres still that other half to "further the population" so i dont see that argument holding water
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| necrosis | Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:57 pm Post #113 |
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シュマゴラス 無双
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My view on homosexuality: Straight sex procreates. Homosexuality....doesn't. I favor less procreation right now, as Earth is too populated. Otherwise, eh, as long as gay people aren't like..."flaming in your face flaunt it every second" type gay I couldn't care less what they do or do not do. Doesn't effect me. |
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| zacattack214 | Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:44 pm Post #114 |
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First Lieutenant
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Totally agree in every way. |
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| kuni_izumi | Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:55 pm Post #115 |
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Breaker of Destined Fate
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This thread is ludicrously unfair. Anyone who says they don't support Homosexuality is going to get torn a new one. Seriously. That being said: The city of Sodom was destroyed because it's people were horrible sinners. Their crimes consisted of murder, gang rape, violence, greed, inhospitality (Actually one of the worst offenses of the time. If people were inhospitable to you in a city you could end up VERY VERY DEAD. It's a BIG DEAL) and others. However, no where in the bible is it stated that one of their sins was BEING GAY. There is an extremely well written essay (short too) about it here. It explains the situations, and the reasons for why the story is NOT anti-gay AND GIVES REFERENCES. Look it up yourself. ADDITIONALLY--they problem with supporting anything through the scripture is a number of flaws in interpretation. First off- Allegorical v. Literal--If you believe that the Lord actually FLOODED THE ENTIRE EARTH and the only people who survived were on the Arc...you're an idiot. Take a basic theology course. OBVIOUSLY certain parts of the Bible (like the creation story) cannot be taken literally or there would be insanity. The eye-for-an-eye proverb or more interesting the saying 'we should be as eunuchs for Christ' aren't meant to be taken literally--otherwise how can we 'go forth and multiply?' Secondly- The Authorship and Setting- The Bible was written by MANY different people. Inspired or NOT, it was written by MEN of their times. Three distinct voices or styles of writing can be identified in the Hebrew Texts (Old testament) despite that the ENTIRE Hebrew Text was once believed to be written by Moses. Let's also remember these were OF THE TIMES...homosexuality did not make BABIES in a time that you needed MANY children if you want ANY to survive to adulthood. Obviously by their needs for population something that doesn't produce children would seem a bad idea. Women were also BLAMED if they were infertile and for giving birth to girls instead of boys (which through science we now know the guy controls that aspect himself--male or female is entirely up to the sperm, not the egg). So yes...at the time, it seems like an all around bad idea--furthermore you weren't supposed to sleep with anyone you WEREN'T MARRIED TOO. Please remember at the time marriage was a political institution not a romantic one. THIRD- People mess with the translations--this is called Redaction. The Bible has been translated SO MANY TIMES that YES things get lost in translation, and YES people stick in their own ideas or read into it a biased way. That is why ANALYZING the setting scripture as much as you can is SO IMPORTANT--do NOT just take someone's word for it! ESPECIALLY if it is as important as deciding which way to vote on a LAW that will affect people for years to come. The problem is a lot of the Christians who make it on the news are NOT theological scholars and probably don't have the credentials to be telling ANYONE what to believe. Remember that church and state should be SEPARATE (in the US) and that Theology is a SCIENTIFIC look at the beliefs of others. In the end you'll probably go with your gut reactions but I URGE you to thoroughly research anything anyone tells you that has such a MASSIVE impact. Oh and if it wasn't clear I'm pro-homosexuality. |
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| The Outsider | Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:48 pm Post #116 |
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The Demon's Rival
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Haha, you think Homosexuality is like a mental disease. Tough going Christians like you I presume seem to think that there such things as bad and evil. Well I gotta tell you that nowadays its hard to distinguish the difference between what right and wrong. It isn't a mental illness, people research whatever seems unusual to them and or something frieghtening. Being gay or lesbian dosn't make you sick, they are open about the way they are and are considered very much sane enough to walk around. I see you also used the word 'corruption'. Sorri but considering you so tied to your beliefs you dont seem very open yourself. Im glad you dont hate gay people. Its perfectly fine to like them but find some of their stereotypical character traits abit annoying, I do myself and thats just the way I am, like you also I presume. But your terminology is quite sickening I find. You cant support it, you seem abit tied down. Can you also have a 'reversible' state of mind to the things that come naturally to you. If believing in God, something so powerful without showing someone proof, and with homosexuals walking around being themselves, their far more real you are. Could you just stop believing so strongly in God? Also, you seem quite hypocritical saying they have no purpose, aren't you supposed to accept everyone, whicj you said you so, hm. Them being alive is a purpose and they can do things in life other than just giving children. Ans just so you know, I am too a Christian, just perhaps that tad more open than you are. This was to LoneWolf, my thing wasn't quoting properly but yes, this is for him. |
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| Miho | Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:47 pm Post #117 |
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My my my, this is just disgraceful. I'll start from the top LoneWolf -- I didn't say I was 100% certain on the angels being raped, but I did believe they were. If they wasn't then, whatever really. I've never sat down and read the bible, and I never would. I'd rather stake a knife through it then read it, if I’m quite honest. Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. If anything is, I think following a book so obsessively shows signs to worry about. Living by what it says in everything you do... I find it quite sad, actually. And homosexuality has corrupted nothing. If you find it difficult to love your best friend in a friend way, that's your own idiotic problem. *Laughs.* No one whole community is the same, so not all gay guys are like that. Yes there are some gay guys who would want a straight guy to be gay, but that's probably down to the fact that they fancy/love that person. Though why a gay person would fancy you, I honestly don't know. How dare you, how dare you say that. How can you have the audacity to say gay people have no purpose? I think you and your views are disgusting and extremely offensive. What purpose would someone like you serve? Maybe to make other peoples lives a misery? Humans can do much more then just reproduce, if you're SO narrow-minded to think that's all we're made to do, then I truly pity you. Even putting that aside, I still pity you. And LMFAO. QUOTE share the love of Christ with them instead of giving the rest of us a bad name. I think we've bared witness to your view on Christian love. Go shove it up your arse hunny. ================ Bai Xue -- I find it hard to think of Christians in any other way except hateful people sometimes, especially when i'm witness to such disgusting views as LoneWolf shared. Social influences do make people how they are, of course, but it doesn't MAKE you gay what-so-ever. I lived with my parents and brother before, until my brother moved out. Both my dad and father were huge football fans, and are very masculine, yet i'm feminine. So social influences aren't everything, it's just who you are. =============== Shuma -- While you can find them annoying, you should also accept that may just be who they are =/ . I myself ain't too keen on the majorly majorly camp guys, but I would never be horrible about it. =============== Both Kinu and Devil Scholar make good points in their posts. I'm sorry I haven't replied much to yours, but I’ve once again been pissed off by this bloody topic. I actually think it should be closed, and will be bringing it up with fellow staff members. Once again, if my post is jumbled, I don't give two sh*ts. |
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| Twilight Sky | Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:24 pm Post #118 |
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Emperor's Retainer
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Saying it's a disease or a mental order, or "chemical imbalance" is just man's way of insulting something that is not the norm. |
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| The Outsider | Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:31 pm Post #119 |
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The Demon's Rival
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What I said earlier. People research or get scared by "mental dieseases" because they dont like it or it bothers them. |
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| Lone Wolf | Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:02 pm Post #120 |
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First Lieutenant
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First, I take back that statement, I did not meant to say that gay people have no purpose, we all have a purpose, I apologize... There's no need to insult me though, this was supposed to be a place to share your opinions about homosexuality, I don't agree with it, you do, why don't just leave it at that? if you want to make it personal then try PMing me instead, I can understand why you would want to defend your point of view the way you did, but really, there's no need to insult me, and again I apologize if my opinion was insulting, I should have put more thought in it before posting. |
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| Miho | Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:30 pm Post #121 |
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Apology accepted. And no, i'd rather not engage in (what would probably turn out to be) a flaming war over PM. Our opinions are obviously on the other ends of the scale, so there's no point in bashing them together when we don't need to. It'd be a waste of time. |
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| WuTiger123 | Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:54 pm Post #122 |
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PSN: WuTiger123
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And we all know Miho would win :P. On topic I dont mind gay people, I dont think I have actually met a gay person so I am not sure, but still they are people they have as uch right to be here as any straight person, so I dont see why everyone is making it such a big deal. Oh yer cos the Bible says its wrong, hmmmm there are so many things in the bible that make people sinners nowadays and I bet you have all done them, so that makes us all sinners. Well I am not sure I dont want to read the bible, I think its just a big whole 900 page book of crap. |
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| The Outsider | Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:39 pm Post #123 |
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The Demon's Rival
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You seem pretty mature, this is a pretty odd topic anyway :wacko: . Something you wanna say your opinion on but isn't somthing to be debated over a forum haha. |
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| necrosis | Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:00 am Post #124 |
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シュマゴラス 無双
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The majority of those people are simply attention whores. I will NOT accept attention whoring of any kind no matter the person. Furthermore, quit preaching to everybody.
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| T.e.n | Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:07 am Post #125 |
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Obsessive Yue Ying Fan OMG
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Well, you've spoken with myself or Miho - right? There you go. :lol: Shuma - The majority of all people are attention whoring because they're incredibly lonely; in a culture that promotes individualism to the point of isolation. Attention whoring isn't indicative of gay people. So really, it's not just 'those' people. |
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![]](http://z2.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)

whatever, no one will ever understand, especially on a forum. *leaves topic and never comes back to it*

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9:13 AM Jul 11