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Homosexuality
Topic Started: Sat May 24, 2008 6:10 am (11,344 Views)
lmay19
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I haven't read many posts in this topic so forgive me if this has been said. I don't think homosexuality is something you can choose for yourself (unless you forced yourself but..). Nor do I believe it's something you're born with. I don't think anyone's born with any sexuality. But I do believe we were born with different specific mindsets (yes even at our purehearted baby stages). Those mindsets combined with influences around us as we grow up lead us into sexual preferences. Influences include what you watch on TV, movies, people you meet, etc. All as you grow you are exposed to certain things more than others (influences) and that makes you more attracted to certain groups of people. Most of us discriminate based on gender automatically, and then nitpick more specific turn-ons from there. Some (rare) gay people weren't really exposed to gay people much and grew up in a conservative home. Hm not much opportunities to learn about gays, how could they have grown into one? The mindset, once again. They are the curious-mindsetted (genetics) ones, getting turned on by whatever they can't have and become determined to explore it.

I'm not gay but this is my theory on it, since I know a lot about people. Take it or leave it. I just think everyone was born as an empty slate and gains sexuality over time. :mellow: Unless they have discovered that sexuality is carried through genes of course, in that case PLEASE disregard this by all means.


[/genius]
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zacattack214
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Jin
Oct 13 2008, 12:06 AM
I haven't read many posts in this topic so forgive me if this has been said. I don't think homosexuality is something you can choose for yourself (unless you forced yourself but..). Nor do I believe it's something you're born with. I don't think anyone's born with any sexuality. But I do believe we were born with different specific mindsets (yes even at our purehearted baby stages). Those mindsets combined with influences around us as we grow up lead us into sexual preferences. Influences include what you watch on TV, movies, people you meet, etc. All as you grow you are exposed to certain things more than others (influences) and that makes you more attracted to certain groups of people. Most of us discriminate based on gender automatically, and then nitpick more specific turn-ons from there. Some (rare) gay people weren't really exposed to gay people much and grew up in a conservative home. Hm not much opportunities to learn about gays, how could they have grown into one? The mindset, once again. They are the curious-mindsetted (genetics) ones, getting turned on by whatever they can't have and become determined to explore it.

I'm not gay but this is my theory on it, since I know a lot about people. Take it or leave it. I just think everyone was born as an empty slate and gains sexuality over time.  :mellow:  Unless they have discovered that sexuality is carried through genes of course, in that case PLEASE disregard this by all means.


[/genius]

I have never thought about it like that, I think you might have stumble upon qutie a delightfully profound idea here. It makes sense, I think you need to be a little more articulate, but you definatley elaborated very well upon your ideas. If I had a cookie I would give you one. But if your going to take this route, you must also explore how pop culture shapes our perception and molds us to fit into the "social reality" of our world. It's basically a concept that everything in "man's world" is a lie, and the the reality is behind it somewhere. It relates to what you are saying because it says that society is a farce, and that pop culture shapes us to believe in that farce. It can be taken a step further to explain this recent financia crisis and such, but that's me going off topic again, and I won't do that. But you should explore the idea, you may find it intriguing.

I'm not gay either (and I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread... maybe it's because this is the only one people respond to) but I think that some gays would be receptive of this idea. I would hope they are open to it.
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Mizzle
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Logically, there is nothing "wrong" with Homosexuality. Pleasure... is pleasure, after all. Love... is love. Heck, even Miho is gay for Miho.

However, there are some problems I would like to address.

If all males were attracted to one another and left the women alone, there would be no babies - ending the world as we know it.

Futhermore, it is my belief that pornography and male homosexuality are linked in an insignificant way:

By focusing on the pleasure of the woman; the man, dull and expressionless... the young viewer feels he might enjoy himself more if he were on the receiving end.

And this suits their plans for world domination perfectly.
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necrosis
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tennoarashi
Oct 12 2008, 05:07 PM


Shuma - The majority of all people are attention whoring because they're incredibly lonely; in a culture that promotes individualism to the point of isolation. Attention whoring isn't indicative of gay people. So really, it's not just 'those' people.

Do not twist my words, you!
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Bai Xue
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Miho
Oct 12 2008, 04:47 PM
Bai Xue --

I find it hard to think of Christians in any other way except hateful people sometimes, especially when i'm witness to such disgusting views as LoneWolf shared.

Social influences do make people how they are, of course, but it doesn't MAKE you gay what-so-ever. I lived with my parents and brother before, until my brother moved out. Both my dad and father were huge football fans, and are very masculine, yet i'm feminine. So social influences aren't everything, it's just who you are.

that's fine; I can understand that :)

^^' that's what I meant - influcence, not totally making. Sorry for not being too clear (again!! *bangs head on desk*). Jin's idea actually makes a lot of sense. do/did you study psychology, Jin??
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The Outsider
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Juice Jao Yizzle
Oct 13 2008, 02:44 AM
And this suits their plans for world domination perfectly.

You sounded ok, until that stupid last line.
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Godlikephoenix
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Miho, i dont think this thread needs to be locked, i think the discussion just needs to be kept under control more :)

The ideas that have been posted about the issue lately, are quite relevant, and right to some extent, but depending on people's religion or beliefs, they might not even care about some of these ideas, thinking that theyre just a load of crap, which i think just further proves their inability to be open-minded -_-
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Bai Xue
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God-Like Phoenix
Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:43 am
Miho, i dont think this thread needs to be locked, i think the discussion just needs to be kept under control more :)

The ideas that have been posted about the issue lately, are quite relevant, and right to some extent, but depending on people's religion or beliefs, they might not even care about some of these ideas, thinking that theyre just a load of crap, which i think just further proves their inability to be open-minded -_-
<_< this post annoys me.

I think it's rather closed-minded of you to think that religious people aren't open-minded. Sure, sometimes we seem cold and hateful, *gasp* but what of you who can't believe in deities and angels and demons, just because they aren't in the flesh or apparently existent otherwise? I think you'd have to be pretty open minded in this day and age to accept something like that being real, and then following the teachings (in my specific case, the Bible, but there's the Koran(sp?) and other doctrines for other religions etc), which a lot of people have already dismissed and hated on (well just the Bible. say, why is only the Bible the hated on and not other doctrines for other religions?)... I think I have a point...

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foomin
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OK, i think this has gotten WAY out of hand. and first and foremost, i mean NO disrespect to the christian/religious folks who have contributed here. however...

back at the begining of this thread the Ice Prince stated PLAINLY that this was not about persecution or right or wrong, it was to be a sharing of ideas and thoughts, not "your way is bad. my way is good=gay is bad. straight is good". perhaps if we left religion out of it, this thread could get back on track? i very honestly DO NOT CARE what your religion believes, i am interested in what you as a human believe, deep down. not what someone has told you think. SCARED of gay folks? say so, don't couch it in "my god says...", think for youself.

i'm going to bet that every single last person on this Forum knows at least two people who's sexuality they question. there are millons of gay/bi/transgendered/transexual folks in the world, not a few hundred.

here's two things to think on:

a.)if you are not gay, why do YOU care if i am. i'm not hurting you or yours. there are aberrations in every sector of society, it's only because of hate and fear that the perverts and sickos in the gay section get more press than the straight ones. so don't go saying that pedophiles/sexual deviants are all gay men...that's just mindless claptrap.

b.) the people that are the most worried about gay folks generally: have something to hide themselves, or have NOTHING to worry about from gay folks. so let that rest.

i respect everyones way of life whether i agree with it or not, so please respect mine. i DO NOT have any agenda except to enjoy my life, i don't want to overthrow Republican society or start wars. i don't want you TO BE gay, i want you to leave me and my gayness alone and mind your own business.

and i want to be very clear about this part: if you are not GLBT or a world class geneticist:what gives you the right to presume to say that folks are not born gay or this is not a hereditary predisposition? if you are not gay how can you begin to say that being gay is a learned behavior that can be stopped or altered by faith? i can assure you from life experience that, YES i am capable of being sexual with a female, but WHY would i want to ruin someone else's life by lying to him/her and conducting a clandestine life of hiding and sneaking about when i can be honest to myself by just admitting the truth and acting on it. homosexuality has been carried on throughout history to varying degrees of acceptance, it's usually when religion gets involved that people start getting ridiculous and making absurd statements about things that they don't have a clue about.

if you are not gay, i appreciate your thoughts, but DO NOT go about TELLING me that i'm misinformed or deluded, or worse yet, have CHOSEN a life of fear, hate and repression. i'm living it, you are not.

again, no offense to anyone who's posted here, but some of that needed to be said.
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Deleted User
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It may consider as unusual to some people but personally I dont have a problem with gay people I know a few gay people on here and in real life and I dont have an issues with them. But I think it depends upon how you are bought up to believe certain things
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Godlikephoenix
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@Bai Xue: i didnt mean that all people who have a strong belief in their religion are like that...i guess i shouldve specified what i meant( -_-), i meant that there are those small groups of people who can be totally ignorant, with them being the way that i said before...i didnt say that all are like that, im sorry if thats how it sort of sounded... i will apologise for that :)

Quote:
 
"but what of you who can't believe in deities and angels and demons, just because they aren't in the flesh or apparently existent otherwise?"
i didnt say that those couldnt be real, i just said that im not a very religious person...does that instantly brand me as someone who doesnt believe that any kind of supernatural or spiritual being(s) that may actually be around that we dont know about?
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Bai Xue
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@GLP: that's alright. In fact, I should apologise also, as unclear explanation lead to assuming things. Although most people I've come across who make such a statement don't believe in any sort of spiritual beings, I know you're an exception :)

@foomin: ok here's my opinion as an athiest, if you will:
Sure, people feel attracted to people of the same sex. But pursuing a relationship of that kind is wrong, as love is an illusion - triggered by the (sometimes) subliminal want to mate and reproduce, people feel "love" as the hormones are affected during puberty, when people develop into adults and are able to mate, and people can't mate with someone of the same gender. Heck, any romantic relationship, no matter what or with who, is useless, and we only need each other to mate and keep on existing. And seeing as the world is so populated and we'll eventually be able to create life from test tubes if we can't already, we don't even need to mate anymore.

That is most likely what I would think if religion had absolutely no influence on life.

And yes, I would be that bitter and blunt (though the reasons are not due to religion alone, but rather my pathetic childhood which consisted of almost literal constant bullying during its duration. Knowing my personality, without the hope in humanity that religion gave me -i know, lame but I think it's given me besides savation, eternal life, yadayada- I wouldn't believe in anything). But in reality, I'm not that cruel :mellow:

and for the record, no I'm not scared of gays.

to respond to your things to think about:
a + b) - well I would mention about how Chrisitans at least should want eveyone to go to heaven (I know I do). But no-one seems to care so I'll move on.

a) - apart from above point, I honestly don't care so much. (I could be mean and ask why do you care if I'm religious if you're not but you probably have some answer already, so not bothering.) But the afterlife is something I care a lot about. I personally don't understand the atraction to plastering gay pedo's all over the media, even pedo men don't have to be gay to molest boys. It's all about power, not attraction.

b)- i have nothing to hide. And i it wasn't for the compulsion of coming back here, i probably would let my opinions rest.

Having said all that, believe it or not, I still respect your way of life. Miho led me to realise how much all 'minority' groups have in common (don't know minority homosexuality is anymore) in the fact of sticking up for your beliefs/ideals when the world ridicules you. We've both experienced that, I'm sure. So how couldn't I have respect, even if I did disagree?

While I'm not sure about religious faith causing change in sexuality (I've seen some people claiming it has hapenned, I don't see why not but I honestly don't know), but after thinking about it, I believe that genetics and social environment both influence one's sexuality. The realisation really hit me when after quizzing a relative about this, she pointed out how one of my male relatives, although straight, is a fairly feminine guy. And he had a large amount of masuline brothers. So it made me realise how genes may have an impact; perhaps having many brothers an no sisters made an impact psychologically (as well), but who can say?

If I have implied anything I shouldn't have/didn't mean to, I apologise in advance - I normally don't do this but I seem to be doing it a lot recently...
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foomin
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in fairness to you Bai Xue, i was never angry with you in particular, and i do appreciate your points of view. i love the fact that you are strong and intelligent, and don't resort to rhetoric when expressing your thoughts. you at least allow for there to be more than one answer and other ways of thinking.

never once have i commented that i do not believe in a higher power, i just don't think that it really involves it's self in the petty business of human sexuality. it's got more important things to attend to...natural disasters, mass murders in Mexico, the monetary downfall of the Western World, folks starving in Africa and the US. nor do i believe a being of love and acceptance would condem good folks on the basis of who they love, that just goes against any kind of sense. it just seems to me that until WE as humans learn to get along and tolerate each others differences for the greater good, we'll continue to struggle.

and this will probably be the last time i post here, so...i will repeat my above statement, for those who fear and revile gay folks:

i do not want you TO BE gay(have no fear of that), i want you to leave me and my gayness alone, and mind your own business.
Edited by foomin, Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:52 pm.
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Bai Xue
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...wow, thankyou ^^

that's fair enough, too, and I agree to point - While I believe that a higher power is involved in all things, no matter how big or small, we should all learn to just get along, even if we don't agree :S I don't know if that's possible, but I'm willing to try it.

Hopefully this will be my last post here too. But we'll see...
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Well, I've never seen any difference between homo- or heterosexuality.
Gosh, love is something wonderful, no matter if family or relationship related; feeling love is a great privilege!!! We're really lucky ^_^ And look; genders are only judged by appearances, or how certain people are raised to like certain things. Differently, so that we're kind of attrackted to eachother, but love is love. There is NEVER EVER something wrong with loving, no matter whom!!! :)
Loving is maybe the closest we get to this "god", energy, however you want to call it. And who says you have to have sex to love or something?! X_X
It's a bit frustrating, how love sometimes is generalised to the sexual relationship between two people...that's rather lust or whatever, I have no idea. Well, when you love someone, like, relationship love, you want to be as close to that person as possible, I presume ^^' That and children is what sex is for, probably, who knows. But love is for everything!!! Every single thing and being on this earth, and in the entire universe!! Love doesn't have boundaries :) And it's not tied to physical appearance, in my opinion; is that person male or female?
So...in some way, we're probably all "bisexual", even though some deny it, or just love the sex they're not usually sexually attrackted to in a different way. Gosh, this is difficult to explain; But god, it's so weird that some Christians think homosexuality is something wrong, though they keep preeching to love everyone! There was even a politician who said: "We need to cure this!" I mean; what on earth?! :mellow:
I don't think anyone should be discriminated for the things they like, or judged, without you taking time to get to know them.
Every single thing and being on this earth here deserves love and respect, that's all I want to say.
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Godlikephoenix
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"We need to cure this" -_- thats just completely obsurd...what is there to cure? in that context...he's implying that homosexuality is something unnatural and that it needs to be cured...i just cant get my head around the fact that some people can actually think like that...i find it just sad and somewhat frusterating at times
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zacattack214
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God-Like Phoenix
Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:09 pm
"We need to cure this" -_- thats just completely obsurd...what is there to cure? in that context...he's implying that homosexuality is something unnatural and that it needs to be cured...i just cant get my head around the fact that some people can actually think like that...i find it just sad and somewhat frusterating at times
Actually that kind of language scares me. Didn't Hitler once use that kind of wording? I think that was one of his excuses for the Holocaust--he said he was "curing" Germany of the Jews (and many others who are much less mentioned--homosexuals among them). That kind of mindset is dangerous.
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Yeah D: It's like...urgh!!! But at least he didn't even get enough votes to get into the government ^^' Well, he's a strict Christian or something, I don't know X_X But still, that's a horrible thing to say!!!!!!!
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Bai Xue
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Selli
Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:25 pm
Well, I've never seen any difference between homo- or heterosexuality.
Gosh, love is something wonderful, no matter if family or relationship related; feeling love is a great privilege!!! We're really lucky ^_^ And look; genders are only judged by appearances, or how certain people are raised to like certain things. Differently, so that we're kind of attrackted to eachother, but love is love. There is NEVER EVER something wrong with loving, no matter whom!!! :)
Loving is maybe the closest we get to this "god", energy, however you want to call it. And who says you have to have sex to love or something?! X_X
It's a bit frustrating, how love sometimes is generalised to the sexual relationship between two people...that's rather lust or whatever, I have no idea. Well, when you love someone, like, relationship love, you want to be as close to that person as possible, I presume ^^' That and children is what sex is for, probably, who knows. But love is for everything!!! Every single thing and being on this earth, and in the entire universe!! Love doesn't have boundaries :) And it's not tied to physical appearance, in my opinion; is that person male or female?
So...in some way, we're probably all "bisexual", even though some deny it, or just love the sex they're not usually sexually attrackted to in a different way. Gosh, this is difficult to explain; But god, it's so weird that some Christians think homosexuality is something wrong, though they keep preeching to love everyone! There was even a politician who said: "We need to cure this!" I mean; what on earth?! :mellow:
I don't think anyone should be discriminated for the things they like, or judged, without you taking time to get to know them.
Every single thing and being on this earth here deserves love and respect, that's all I want to say.
I hope this isn't in all reference to my more previous post (#137 - I can't think of what'd spur 2/3 to all of it otherwise), because if it was, I'd have to call you an idiot. What I provided earlier is an example of what I'd most likely think if I was an athiest, not what I actually think. Of course I believe in love, and not just relations = sex. But I still think that sex is only for making life. It feeling good, stenthening bonds (unless you're being raped o.o) etc is just a bonus.

Oh and by the way, gender isn't judged by appearance, it's judged by biology - 'women' can have appear to have women parts, but biologically they're male, and vice versa (this is actually the reason for a chile being infertile at birth). Of course, these things can't be detected unless tests are run specifically for it, or when the time comes and you're trying to create children + constsntly failing. Just thought I'd correct you on that. Otherwise, carry on.
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lol, no, I didn't read your posts D: So sorry if you misunderstood ^^'
Hm, well every human is the same 99,9% and that 0.1 percent is what makes us a man or a woman, white, black, brunette, blond, etc. D: It's hard to believe for me, but it's really only 0.1 percent :wacko:
I wasn't insulting you :mellow: D: Everyone has a right on an opinion :) (well, it isn't very decent to treat one's sexuality as a sickness, but it's not like I'm going to forbid that guy of saying what he wants to XD)
And I probably am an idiot :P
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T.e.n
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Bai Xue
Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:58 am
Oh and by the way, gender isn't judged by appearance, it's judged by biology - 'women' can have appear to have women parts, but biologically they're male, and vice versa (this is actually the reason for a chile being infertile at birth).
That's not entirely correct.

Sex is determined by biological genetalia categorization (international standards determine this as - if you have a penis, you are biologically male, if you have a ****** and uterus, you are female).

Gender is determined by culturally-determined visual & audio coding (women dress like this this and this, men dress like this this and this; as well as there being third gendered individual and so on). Gender standards are not internationally agreed upon.

And since it may come up -
Someone who is Transgendered is typically someone whom has genetalia that does not correlate with one's gender (a person may be visually coded as a woman, but still have a penis).

Someone who is a Transsexual is someone who was had their genetalia surgically changed or removed; thus biologically changing their sex.
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Bai Xue
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fair enough, there is a separation between sex and gender. But I think one affects the other so much, I forget to separate them all the time. Buh what a technical world we live in.

@Selli: 0.1%, eh? hmm, didn't know that. Really shoots down the idea of anyone being unique xD

I don't really have anything else to say without further digressing :S Sorry for digressing :(

edit: I also want to apologise for constantly assuming things, especially the last time. It just makes me look stupid and I will try harder in the future to keep a cool head answer more reasonably.
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jamesbuc
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Right ill throw my two penneth in and run before this whole topic explodes :P

When growing up I basically was taught through that really the only difference between a man and a women is difference is genitalia and only the women can have babies. Thats all. That alone I think helps to shape my outlook on things like this.
Im all for homosexual love whether it be Male/Male or Female/Female. I couldnt see the difference mostly. I dont like the stereotypical queen gay guy however. Then again I cant stand the ultra girly girl so maybe thats just me.
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Rydain
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Gender is just one part of who we are, not some ultimate dictator of who we "ought" to form romantic relationships with.

Regardless of the genders of the partners in question, all loving relationships between people deserve the same respect. Two adults of consenting age should be able to obtain the same full legal rights of marriage and child guardianship if they choose to do so. All in all, homosexuality is just another form of human romantic attraction, not some aberration that should be frowned on or stamped out.
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jamesbuc
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Agreed totally Rhydian. I mostly see Homophobia at the same level as Racism. Sexism also if you want to get to the nitty gritty of it.
However despite being bisexual myself, despite having had relationships between both genders I do admit to dropping more than one homophobic joke. I don't think I see it that way anymore though just as I sometimes drop straight jokes based on stereotypical straight male behaviour :P

:P Maybe since I just rip the piss outta everything and I shouldn't think it in that sense. (Meaning: Parody/Mock)
Edited by jamesbuc, Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:46 am.
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