Honganji Kennyo

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Honganji Kennyo; not a DP - why was he removed?
Topic Started: May 31 2008, 05:09 AM (568 Views)
Tesouken	May 31 2008, 05:09 AM Post #1
Han's Unifier Posts: 1,131 Group: Banned Member #9,993 Joined: September 28, 2007	prologue: read first I know the same thing has been (re)posted in the wishlist for SW3 thread. This was not done by me but by LoW who had mistook the topic and therefore placed it in that topic in another context, we have talked about this trough pm maturely and he proposed i remade this topic. This topic is not about the wish of the honganji monk being a new character in SW3 mind you, this is about the original kennyo of SW1 being removed, in his original model and form wich i find a shame, added a question if anyone has any ideas why this was done since i cant think of any reason, i find it odd, .. weird really. He was a character who could have had quite some depth, and in my opinion should have been added as a playable character in SWxl, from wich i want to start anew in its exact context with the earlier topic: 'The only lord that didnt became playable in SWxl, worse.. he didnt even return at all.. Whats up with that? cause i for one thought he looked pretty cool. Does anyone here know what happened to him? He did have his own model so why was he cut? Honganji kennyo. Shame hes gone though.'



BlackKite	May 31 2008, 05:29 AM Post #2
東方星蓮船 ~ Undefined Fantastic Object. Posts: 4,020 Group: Admins Member #38 Joined: August 26, 2005 Gender Male	First of all, there is an artwork of Kennyo you mentioned in the site's SW1 artworks section. http://koeiwarriors.co.uk/sw-artworks.php Probably the reason why he is forgettable is because he hardly made appearances. Heck, the only time you saw him was in Magoichi's storyline. But yeah, I really thought he should be at least kept in SW2 because of the Honganji's role in opposing the Oda, so the exact reason why he is forsaken is kinda beyond me... Especially with Magoichi and the Ikko-Ikki in general still in. >_< [capcom fanboy] But one thing I'm quite sure of, Capcom may have taken this opportunity to add Kennyo to SB2, and later make him playable in SB2H. Goes to play SB2H as Kennyo [/capcom fanboy]
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foomin	May 31 2008, 05:48 AM Post #3
"i smell poop..." Posts: 2,736 Group: Members Member #4,229 Joined: November 17, 2006	not that this answers your question definitively, as Wiki is fairly unreliable, but this is the explanation given there: "Imagawa Yoshimoto and Honganji Kennyo were completely removed(from SW2) due to conflicting time periods; for the same reason, the battles of Inabayama, Ise-Nagashima, and other battles featuring the Imagawa or the Ikko-ikki are removed." which in effect, is true. however, one would've thought he might be more appropriate for SW2:XL than say: Kojiro Sasaki? my take on the matter is:that KOEI really fears getting into the religious territory held by the true stories of Lady Gracia and Kosa, for fear of...what? alienating their Japanese fan base? their US fan base? i'm honestly not sure, i DO see that the US has ISSUES with anything other than christianity and gets all "bent out of shape" when other non-christian religions start getting put out in public. and from all points of view SW2 was a breakthrough game that garnered legions of Western fans to the franchise. just my opinion.
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Tesouken	May 31 2008, 06:31 AM Post #4
Han's Unifier Posts: 1,131 Group: Banned Member #9,993 Joined: September 28, 2007	BlackKite May 31 2008, 04:29 AM First of all, there is an artwork of Kennyo you mentioned in the site's SW1 artworks section. http://koeiwarriors.co.uk/sw-artworks.php Probably the reason why he is forgettable is because he hardly made appearances. Heck, the only time you saw him was in Magoichi's storyline. But yeah, I really thought he should be at least kept in SW2 because of the Honganji's role in opposing the Oda, so the exact reason why he is forsaken is kinda beyond me... Especially with Magoichi and the Ikko-Ikki in general still in. >_< [capcom fanboy] But one thing I'm quite sure of, Capcom may have taken this opportunity to add Kennyo to SB2, and later make him playable in SB2H. Goes to play SB2H as Kennyo [/capcom fanboy] omg! thanks! ill reupload it and link it into this topic Btw, i envy you for playing Basara2. curse my country. @foomin. Thanks for the additional info from wiki, i had looked on wikipedia but couldnt find anything, maybe i read over it. If it were true that koei would not want to touch christianity cause its a religion (well, why touch kagetora kenshin at all then with his never ending praise of bishamonten) then i find it very odd that gracia was added at all, a character that contrary to kennyo is only known soley on her christian history, while kennyo was first of used already in sw1 and was as valid as ieyasu himself in terms of the warring states history contrasting nobunagas rise. Someone should bring this up at koei forums, i wont as i dont like the forums there anymore for reasons im not going to bring up here.



Manji	Jun 2 2008, 06:38 PM Post #5
delicious... Posts: 2,329 Group: Global Moderators Member #9,417 Joined: August 28, 2007 Gender Female	Hey, I moved this topic to Samurai Warriors as I felt it was rather out of place in KOEI Heroes. I think it may also get more attention here in the SW forum. I remember him in Magoichi's SW1 storyline and I thought for certain he would be a character KOEI would expand upon in future releases. The whole "conflicting time periods" thing from Wiki doesn't make much sense seeing as KOEI has already taken plenty of artistic freedom in manipulating the Sengoku time period for the SW games. He probably just got pushed aside because KOEI wanted to add more prominent figures into the story. Also, if Yoshimoto can make a come back, I don't see why Kennyo can't as well. They have a perfectly good design for him so I'm sure they wouldn't completely scrap it.
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Seraphil	Jun 2 2008, 06:52 PM Post #6
The name is Okuni of Izumo... shall we dance to this ballad of fire and steel? Posts: 3,815 Group: Moderators Member #1,112 Joined: March 16, 2006 Gender Male	I seriously doubt Koei has some fear of putting religion in their games since Kessen series and Nobunaga's Ambition both feature religion rather prominently. I figure that adding Honganji would take focus off the era Koei wanted to highlight: Ieyasu, post-Honnoji and Sekigahara. Kennyo's deeds almost entirely took place during Nobunaga's era, and for a lot of characters in SW2 Nobunaga either doesn't feature as a major factor or is a thing of the past. While it would have been nice to have seen him at Osaka Bay alongside his fellow priests already there, having Nobunaga's clashes with Nagamasa and Kenshin added were probably higher on the priority list.
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foomin	Jun 3 2008, 03:05 AM Post #7
"i smell poop..." Posts: 2,736 Group: Members Member #4,229 Joined: November 17, 2006	Tesouken May 31 2008, 05:31 AM BlackKite May 31 2008, 04:29 AM First of all, there is an artwork of Kennyo you mentioned in the site's SW1 artworks section. http://koeiwarriors.co.uk/sw-artworks.php Probably the reason why he is forgettable is because he hardly made appearances. Heck, the only time you saw him was in Magoichi's storyline. But yeah, I really thought he should be at least kept in SW2 because of the Honganji's role in opposing the Oda, so the exact reason why he is forsaken is kinda beyond me... Especially with Magoichi and the Ikko-Ikki in general still in. >_< [capcom fanboy] But one thing I'm quite sure of, Capcom may have taken this opportunity to add Kennyo to SB2, and later make him playable in SB2H. Goes to play SB2H as Kennyo [/capcom fanboy] omg! thanks! ill reupload it and link it into this topic Btw, i envy you for playing Basara2. curse my country. @foomin. Thanks for the additional info from wiki, i had looked on wikipedia but couldnt find anything, maybe i read over it. If it were true that koei would not want to touch christianity cause its a religion (well, why touch kagetora kenshin at all then with his never ending praise of bishamonten) then i find it very odd that gracia was added at all, a character that contrary to kennyo is only known soley on her christian history, while kennyo was first of used already in sw1 and was as valid as ieyasu himself in terms of the warring states history contrasting nobunagas rise. Someone should bring this up at koei forums, i wont as i dont like the forums there anymore for reasons im not going to bring up here. sure, i enjoyed going back over the material. and honestly i can't figure out what the deal is except that as i mentioned previously, KOEI seem to be marketing for the rest of the world more than they ever have in the past, and the Western world function on christianity, when Japan and the East are less judgemental? as you and SRS said, religion has played a part in KOEI games in the past? all i know is that Kennyo was an interesting character with tons of story potential, he spanned quite a long time period and had interactions with lots of the Sengoku era figures. he'd make a good addition to SW3 if they try to encompass the the whole era, like i hope they do.
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Macv12	Jun 6 2008, 12:47 AM Post #8
Magnificent Artist Commander Posts: 163 Group: Members Member #3,695 Joined: October 9, 2006	Quote: The only lord that didnt became playable in SWxl I take offense to that. Nagamasa was still wholly off-limits! We had to wait until the sequel for his serious hotness and sappy story! In any case, I was surprised they even had a unique model for Kennyo in SW1 at all. I didn't even know he was unique until I saw his character art (thought he was just some generic monk with a ring on his back, lol). SW2 did focus on the time after he did much, so it makes sense that he (like Yoshimoto) would be removed. As for Yoshimoto being returned, he's a completely silly throw-away character that can be molded to fit any ridiculous story. In SW2, he didn't do anything; he ran around on a completely fictional quest to unite everyone in Kemari, and appeared briefly in the battle of Okehazama. The same is basically true of Kunoichi, Okuni and Goemon: one is fictional, and the other two don't belong on the battlefield. Kennyo, however, is too serious to be thrown around like that.
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MasterofMusou	Jul 24 2008, 01:44 PM Post #9
You are already in my genjutsu. Posts: 1,352 Group: Members Member #16,014 Joined: June 7, 2008 Gender Male	Tesouken May 31 2008, 04:09 AM 'The only lord that didnt became playable in SWxl, worse.. he didnt even return at all.. Whats up with that? cause i for one thought he looked pretty cool. Does anyone here know what happened to him? He did have his own model so why was he cut? Honganji kennyo. Shame hes gone though.' Actually Nagamasa was a lord and he wasn't playable either,he and Kennyo were both Secret Characters.I could show you the Youtube videos .
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Shu	Jul 24 2008, 03:03 PM Post #10
KW Comedian Posts: 1,168 Group: Members Member #8,721 Joined: July 23, 2007	I think that was a cheat. Not Secret XD
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Nasser	Jul 24 2008, 04:22 PM Post #11
In a scale from one to ten, I'm The Awesome Posts: 1,391 Group: Members Member #9,358 Joined: August 24, 2007 Gender Male	Yeah I agree with Shu there. As for the reason, I can only think of two possible reasons, the first being, as said, that the focus of Samurai Warriors 2 lies in Sekigahara, aka after Hideyoshi's time. So as said, it was after his death. For two, he mainly appeared in Magiochi's story, and in Samurai Warriors 2, Magiochi got a whole different story than the one he got in SW1 (In 1 he was obssesed of killing Nobunaga, in two, he just wants to help Hideyoshi. I think the main reason he got his unique design is to strengthen his role as a monk in the game. If he looked like regular NPC.,, it just won't suit him being a monk and all
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Shu	Jul 24 2008, 04:26 PM Post #12
KW Comedian Posts: 1,168 Group: Members Member #8,721 Joined: July 23, 2007	You know, Nasser, that answered a question Ive had for a while. Why did he get his own model? If they add more battles with Nobunaga against those people (Cant remember the name) Maybe he would be brought back.
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MasterofMusou	Jul 24 2008, 04:57 PM Post #13
You are already in my genjutsu. Posts: 1,352 Group: Members Member #16,014 Joined: June 7, 2008 Gender Male	Shu Jul 24 2008, 03:26 PM You know, Nasser, that answered a question Ive had for a while. Why did he get his own model? If they add more battles with Nobunaga against those people (Cant remember the name) Maybe he would be brought back. There the ikka sect,or something to that effect.Yeah the guy who made those videos said he used Gameshark,but WIki refered to them as "Secret Characters".All unique models and some generics had an asterik next to them to show that they were a "Secret Character".
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Mr.Honda	Jul 24 2008, 05:00 PM Post #14
Actively Retired Posts: 4,128 Group: Members Member #7,393 Joined: May 17, 2007 Gender Male	TrueMusou4432 Jul 24 2008, 11:57 AM Shu Jul 24 2008, 03:26 PM You know, Nasser, that answered a question Ive had for a while. Why did he get his own model? If they add more battles with Nobunaga against those people (Cant remember the name) Maybe he would be brought back. There the ikka sect,or something to that effect.Yeah the guy who made those videos said he used Gameshark,but WIki refered to them as "Secret Characters".All unique models and some generics had an asterik next to them to show that they were a "Secret Character". Wiki =/= very reliable source ... I doubt they were "Easter Eggs" for us to discover through hidden secrets in normal gameplay. Most likely, the only way to get them is via cheat device EXAMPLE: Facing Lu Bu in the Abyss and Gold Rush could be considered a hidden or "secret" but having him as a bodyguard or playable = cheat
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MasterofMusou	Jul 24 2008, 05:21 PM Post #15
You are already in my genjutsu. Posts: 1,352 Group: Members Member #16,014 Joined: June 7, 2008 Gender Male	Mr.Honda Jul 24 2008, 04:00 PM TrueMusou4432 Jul 24 2008, 11:57 AM Shu Jul 24 2008, 03:26 PM You know, Nasser, that answered a question Ive had for a while. Why did he get his own model? If they add more battles with Nobunaga against those people (Cant remember the name) Maybe he would be brought back. There the ikka sect,or something to that effect.Yeah the guy who made those videos said he used Gameshark,but WIki refered to them as "Secret Characters".All unique models and some generics had an asterik next to them to show that they were a "Secret Character". Wiki =/= very reliable source ... I doubt they were "Easter Eggs" for us to discover through hidden secrets in normal gameplay. Most likely, the only way to get them is via cheat device EXAMPLE: Facing Lu Bu in the Abyss and Gold Rush could be considered a hidden or "secret" but having him as a bodyguard or playable = cheat Yeah,someone most likely edited it since I doubt WIki would pay much attention to these type of games.Someone probably did that after seeing the Vids on YT which the title says Secret Characters,or the person who made them did that himself. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzjsuzAE2MM Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QNwkBqzP0 Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa1Xo27pR9E Lu Bu Secret Character vids http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFaPuGXs6g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5WwG0QKUZ4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLg70UiV9Yg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7qEyMwxd3M
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Shu	Jul 24 2008, 06:25 PM Post #16
KW Comedian Posts: 1,168 Group: Members Member #8,721 Joined: July 23, 2007	Honganji...maybe they should have a Monk model for the entire Ikko sect?
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Seraphil	Jul 24 2008, 06:41 PM Post #17
The name is Okuni of Izumo... shall we dance to this ballad of fire and steel? Posts: 3,815 Group: Moderators Member #1,112 Joined: March 16, 2006 Gender Male	They did. They got called "Pilgrims" for some reason in SW1.
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Shu	Jul 24 2008, 07:44 PM Post #18
KW Comedian Posts: 1,168 Group: Members Member #8,721 Joined: July 23, 2007	Yeah, I remember... But why "Pilgrims"? Was the Ikko Sect like pilgrims or something?
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Seraphil	Jul 24 2008, 08:00 PM Post #19
The name is Okuni of Izumo... shall we dance to this ballad of fire and steel? Posts: 3,815 Group: Moderators Member #1,112 Joined: March 16, 2006 Gender Male	Nope, it's just more of SW1's stupid "translations."
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Shu	Jul 24 2008, 09:08 PM Post #20
KW Comedian Posts: 1,168 Group: Members Member #8,721 Joined: July 23, 2007	Huh. Well at least they got the Ikko Sect thing right, right?
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